45 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

Hurts has improved significantly from last year:

Completion percentage up from 52% to 61%

RTG - up from 78 to 87

QBR - up from 34 to 49

PFF rating up from 56 to 81

Total turnovers from 6 in 4 games to 11 in 15 games - much better ratio.

Aside from that he has just looked better in recent weeks. Gone through his progressions, made some plays keeping his eyes downfield when scrambling (that pass to Ward was beautiful)

Are there areas for improvement. Absolutely. Needs to work on his deep ball and his reads and become a bit better passing in the red zone/goal to go situations.

But if he can continue to improve, he doesn't need to make significant improvements to be a borderline top 10 QB next year. Get that completion percentage up 3/4% and the rating/QBR up 5 points each.

Hurts for 2022. Get him some help with a proper WR2 and see how he does.

Awesome. A second round pick who has turned himself into a top-15/top-20 QB in his first full season starting. Good for him. Again, you can win games with a top 15/20 QB but he needs to push it even more this off-season to be the long term QB here. I’m now curious to see what this kid’s real ceiling is.

Where does his PFF grade rank among other QBs?

13 hours ago, brkmsn said:

So.. I was right and his accuracy is fine after all? 😎

TATERs - Run the ball!!!1!!

Also TATERs - Get a QB who can throw 50 times or we will never win!!11!!

5 minutes ago, Thrive said:

Awesome. A second round pick who has turned himself into a top-15/top-20 QB in his first full season starting. Good for him. Again, you can win games with a top 15/20 QB but he needs to push it even more this off-season to be the long term QB here. I’m now curious to see what this kid’s real ceiling is.

Where does his PFF grade rank among other QBs?

Yeah exactly - and he was always viewed as a developmental QB, who would take a couple of years or more to reach his potential. So far so good. He needs to keep going.

PFF should always be taken with a grain of salt and I can't access the complete list, but I think he is around top 10 (he's higher than Stafford/Lamar Jackson/Derek Carr and just below Dak)

3 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

TATERs - Run the ball!!!1!!

Also TATERs - Get a QB who can throw 50 times or we will never win!!11!!

TATERs don’t care about winning. 

But they have been telling this guy stinks or can’t improve. If he gets another jump like he has from year one to year two he’s in Josh Allen range.  

10 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Yeah exactly - and he was always viewed as a developmental QB, who would take a couple of years or more to reach his potential. So far so good. He needs to keep going.

PFF should always be taken with a grain of salt and I can't access the complete list, but I think he is around top 10 (he's higher than Stafford/Lamar Jackson/Derek Carr and just below Dak)

I think that is the problem here - he is a developmental QB, always has been and people can not be patient.

They forget that in college he had 4 different offensive coordinators and now 2 different ones in the NFL. Next year, if he stays here and Shane Steichen stays on as OC , will be the first time in 6 years that he had the same coaching staff intact. That is a huge thing for the development of a QB. They also forget that he was not really taught how to read defense in college and was expected to make his first read and if it was not there, to go. He is learning all that right now. Add in that he has a very young WR group with him that is also learning the NFL as well, with an inexperienced coaching group and it is no wonder that they had issues in the beginning of the year.

You can see a difference in how he is progressing the offense from week 2 to last week. There is a big difference in what he is doing and he is improving, which is all you want from a project QB.

Will he be the future of the Eagles? Who knows. I think that he has the ability to get better and he has the right mentality to play QB in Philadelphia, which is a huge thing. I dont think he has hit his ceiling and Siri has found some middle ground with him over the course of this year and will use what he learned in the offseason to help Hurts become better in the weaker parts of his game while building game plans to enhance his strengths. I think that he will be a completely different QB in game 1 of next season.

27 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Who does he unseat for top ten? I have Hurts at like 20ish.

Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Herbert, Burrow, Watson, Jackson, Allen, Prescott, Tannehill, Murray, Carr, M. Jones, Stafford, Mahomes

Cousins, Tua, Wentz, Ryan, Big Ben  I have higher than him right now comfortably as QBs right now

Lawrence, Z. Wilson, Lance, Fields we can't judge yet and I guess Hurts falls in, but I feel at least two of this will fall into that top 15 in a year or two.

He's better than Heinicke, Taylor, Jimmy G., Dalton, Mayfield, Darnold, Bridgewaters

For him to be top 10, you are counting on a wall of people to collapse or him to just go leaps and bounds better.

 

 

 

Well let's consider QBR, which is far from perfect, but takes into account a QBs all around play.

He's rated better than Ryan and Big Ben (Big Ben shouldn't even be in the conversation, he's bad now and gone next year). He's rated pretty much the same as Tua. 

And QBs always rise and fall. Brady is the GOAT, but he will be 45 next year and could have a sudden drop at anytime. Same to a degree with Rodgers. He's great, but QBs can fall off dramatically around 40. Watson may not even play next year. Tannehill, Carr, Stafford etc have all had up and down careers. 

But ultimately it doesn't matter too much where he "ranks" amongst QBs. The question is can he continue to improve so that the Eagles are potentially contenders if we give him another weapon and a better D. Remember also that Hurts is one of the lowest paid starting QBs in the league. Derek Carr has a 20 million cap hit next year. Dak Prescott 35 million. Kirk Cousins 45 million. Hurts is a 1 million cap hit which gives you much more of an opportunity to add players around him.

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

I think that is the problem here - he is a developmental QB, always has been and people can not be patient.

They forget that in college he had 4 different offensive coordinators and now 2 different ones in the NFL. Next year, if he stays here and Shane Steichen stays on as OC , will be the first time in 6 years that he had the same coaching staff intact. That is a huge thing for the development of a QB. They also forget that he was not really taught how to read defense in college and was expected to make his first read and if it was not there, to go. He is learning all that right now. Add in that he has a very young WR group with him that is also learning the NFL as well, with an inexperienced coaching group and it is no wonder that they had issues in the beginning of the year.

You can see a difference in how he is progressing the offense from week 2 to last week. There is a big difference in what he is doing and he is improving, which is all you want from a project QB.

Will he be the future of the Eagles? Who knows. I think that he has the ability to get better and he has the right mentality to play QB in Philadelphia, which is a huge thing. I dont think he has hit his ceiling and Siri has found some middle ground with him over the course of this year and will use what he learned in the offseason to help Hurts become better in the weaker parts of his game while building game plans to enhance his strengths. I think that he will be a completely different QB in game 1 of next season.

This is why I said from when we drafted him, the notion of him as being drafted as a backup QB and/or part of a QB factory was nonsense. He was always drafted to be a Plan B to Wentz. Wentz knew it and reacted incredibly badly to it (the opposite of Rodgers) and here we are with him as our starting QB.

3 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Well let's consider QBR, which is far from perfect, but takes into account a QBs all around play.

He's rated better than Ryan and Big Ben (Big Ben shouldn't even be in the conversation, he's bad now and gone next year). He's rated pretty much the same as Tua. 

And QBs always rise and fall. Brady is the GOAT, but he will be 45 next year and could have a sudden drop at anytime. Same to a degree with Rodgers. He's great, but QBs can fall off dramatically around 40. Watson may not even play next year. Tannehill, Carr, Stafford etc have all had up and down careers. 

But ultimately it doesn't matter too much where he "ranks" amongst QBs. The question is can he continue to improve so that the Eagles are potentially contenders if we give him another weapon and a better D. Remember also that Hurts is one of the lowest paid starting QBs in the league. Derek Carr has a 20 million cap hit next year. Dak Prescott 35 million. Kirk Cousins 45 million. Hurts is a 1 million cap hit which gives you much more of an opportunity to add players around him.

That still leaves a wall of of QBs between him and top 10. Plus next year, another batch of QBs will be in the mix. And you keep bringing up money like Jones and Burrow are expensive to their team right now. No rookie contract is expensive anymore. Also, good qbs get paid. It's how the NFL works. Adding those players will always be temporary. They are the training wheels for young qbs until they develop to stand on their own. My issue is more with his fans than him. If people would stop jumping for joy for a guy who improved from worst to 20th, and doesn't even have a 2/1 td/int ratio in this NFL just blows my mind. If they simply left it "he has earned next year", many people would just leave it alone. It's the Church of Hurts that drives people nuts. If he was asked to be anything more than he is now, he would collapse on himself. He may develop into something more, but I feel the team will have to evolve to cover his weakness than him covering the teams weaknesses

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

So when cherry picked, Hurts is comparable to a QB that has long been criticized for his passing ability. As it turns out, Lamar has gotten consistently worse as a passer.

Lamar was carving it up as a passer this year because he finally had a full contingent of recievers with Andrews/Brown/Bateman/Watkins.  Then his OLine & running game completely fell apart forcing him to superman til he finally got hurt.  Lamar is going to have a big year passing in 2022, book it.  If the Eagles get Hurts a full stable pass cathers he will too.

The two QBs over the last 5 years that have taken the same kind of jump in year 2 as Jalen has to me have been Jared Goff and Josh Allen. Jared only made incremental improvements after year 2 and was traded; Josh continued to make large jumps and is now clearly an elite QB.

We don’t know the full background as to what happened to Goff, but based on reports, Allen is known to really dial in during the off-season to improve his craft.

We should keep an eye out for those workout videos that got posted last off-season showing Hurts work - clearly they weren’t just for sure, he worked his tail off. If we don’t see similar videos this off-season, I’d think we’d have a reasonable reason for concern.

38 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Lamar was carving it up as a passer this year because he finally had a full contingent of recievers with Andrews/Brown/Bateman/Watkins.  Then his OLine & running game completely fell apart forcing him to superman til he finally got hurt.  Lamar is going to have a big year passing in 2022, book it.  If the Eagles get Hurts a full stable pass cathers he will too.

He really wasn't. Aside from the Colts game, he was average at best in the beginning of the season.

38 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

 My issue is more with his fans than him. If people would stop jumping for joy for a guy who improved from worst to 20th, and doesn't even have a 2/1 td/int ratio in this NFL just blows my mind. If they simply left it "he has earned next year", many people would just leave it alone. It's the Church of Hurts that drives people nuts.

Is this your first day on the message board? There is basically no one who thinks Hurts has earned anything other than one more year to see if he can get better. There is literally a poll in another thread in which the overwhelming number of responses is that Hurts should get another year to prove himself and nothing more. There is no Church of Hurts.

Of all the dumb things I have to wade through on this message board, this is the dumbest take I have ever seen. To justify your dumb opinion, you have to make it seem like there are people on the other side who have opinions that are equally as moronic, and it just isn't true. 

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Swoop said:

He really wasn't. Aside from the Colts game, he was average at best in the beginning of the season.

Over the 1st 7 weeks he was passing for 316/gm.  Take the Colts out and he was still at 294.5/gm and absolutely zero of that was garbage time, every game was close and his running game was a mess.  When you are Lamar or Hurts your target is 275 because you are already doing a bunch of damage with your legs.  these guys are built to manage running games and kill you when you over commit. 

 

The big question is can they throw when they fall behind.  We just saw Hurts throw 230+ and pull it off.  You want him to throw 300 in that suituation and murder a bad Washington team, give him more receivers.

26 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Is this your first day on the message board? There is basically no one who thinks Hurts has earned anything other than one more year to see if he can get better. There is literally a poll in another thread in which the overwhelming number of responses is that Hurts should get another year to prove himself and nothing more. There is no Church of Hurts.

Of all the dumb things I have to wade through on this message board, this is the dumbest take I have ever seen. To justify your dumb opinion, you have to make it seem like there are people on the other side who have opinions that are equally as moronic, and it just isn't true. 

 

 

 

 

Yours? Someone literally said he could be top ten next year and I put a whole list of people who are clearly ahead with some who have the talent to replace those who will be stepping down. He went from 52 to 61 percent!!! Yeah, against absolute horrid teams for half a season. That's not impressive...it's pretty bad that with this second half of the schedule he couldn't produce more. Eagle fans frustrate me because they can't see anything beyond their point of view. I can admit he has developed from last year, but others can't admit it's not that impressive to go from worst overall to worst full time starter who will have their job next year. He isn't impressive with anything ON THE FIELD where the game is played. 

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Is this your first day on the message board? There is basically no one who thinks Hurts has earned anything other than one more year to see if he can get better. There is literally a poll in another thread in which the overwhelming number of responses is that Hurts should get another year to prove himself and nothing more. There is no Church of Hurts.

Of all the dumb things I have to wade through on this message board, this is the dumbest take I have ever seen. To justify your dumb opinion, you have to make it seem like there are people on the other side who have opinions that are equally as moronic, and it just isn't true. 

 

 

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Yours? Someone literally said he could be top ten next year and I put a whole list of people who are clearly ahead with some who have the talent to replace those who will be stepping down. He went from 52 to 61 percent!!! Yeah, against absolute horrid teams for half a season. That's not impressive...it's pretty bad that with this second half of the schedule he couldn't produce more. Eagle fans frustrate me because they can't see anything beyond their point of view. I can admit he has developed from last year, but others can't admit it's not that impressive to go from worst overall to worst full time starter who will have their job next year. He isn't impressive with anything ON THE FIELD where the game is played. 

I said if he continues to develop he could be a borderline top 10 next year. I stand by that. He could also not develop and lose his job part way through 2022 or in 2023 and I would be fine with that.

But this Church of Hurts thing is a non-starter. Most "Hurts Huggers" have simply said that he is progressing and would like to see what he can do in 2022, given that there are no other better realistic options in free agency and the draft that wouldn't involve us sabotaging the rest of the team.

There have been far more "Hurts Haters" who have been calling for him to be benched at every available opportunity, rather than seeing how he develops and giving him time. 

14 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

So using all the various advanced QB measuring tools, Hurts is ranked 17th. Seems about right to me.

17 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Ironic How close Wentz, Hurts, and Wilson are on this list considering the fans want those two guys over Hurts, how much more money those guys make over Hurts, and how both have overall better weapons than Hurts. The most interesting person here is Tannehill people say you can’t win with a mediocre quarterback meanwhile he’s on the verge of having home field through the playoffs without his best weapon. 

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

Yours? Someone literally said he could be top ten next year and I put a whole list of people who are clearly ahead with some who have the talent to replace those who will be stepping down. He went from 52 to 61 percent!!! Yeah, against absolute horrid teams for half a season. That's not impressive...it's pretty bad that with this second half of the schedule he couldn't produce more. Eagle fans frustrate me because they can't see anything beyond their point of view. I can admit he has developed from last year, but others can't admit it's not that impressive to go from worst overall to worst full time starter who will have their job next year. He isn't impressive with anything ON THE FIELD where the game is played. 

Yeah accounting for 26 touchdowns isn't impressive at all. Dude sucks. The only way we can be sure he is any good is if he plays the 85 bears defense every week. 

4 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

Yeah accounting for 26 touchdowns isn't impressive at all. 

He is right between Carson Wentz 27, and Ryan Tannehill, 24, are they impressive ??

Just now, downundermike said:

He is right between Carson Wentz 27, and Ryan Tannehill, 24, are they impressive ??

I would say if they were in their first full year in the NFL with a first year head coach and the supporting cast Hurts has, then hell yes.

9 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

So using all the various advanced QB measuring tools, Hurts is ranked 17th. Seems about right to me.

He played to role of a thoroughly average QB, which considering his age, experience, and contract, is a pretty darn good deal.

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Total turnovers from 6 in 4 games to 11 in 15 games - much better ratio.

Aside from that he has just looked better in recent weeks. Gone through his progressions, made some plays keeping his eyes downfield when scrambling (that pass to Ward was beautiful)

And 3 of those turnovers came in 1 game. A weird game where the whole team played badly against a bad team. That doesn't excuse Hurts but it does give some context. 

I think the high ankle injury has actually been good for Hurts. It's meant he has had to stay in the pocket more and work through his progressions.