31 minutes ago, eaglesfan0075 said:

Hurts has his flaws for sure, and it remains to be seen how much improvement he can make in Year 3 to prove he is the guy moving forward.

When he was drafted with the 2nd round pick in 2020, I was not happy with the selection and thought it was a poor allocation of resources after signing Wentz to a long term deal.

However, in light of how Wentz has performed after his trade to the Colts and seeing the strong intangibles that Hurts brings to the table in addition to his rushing ability and ability to extend plays, it's hard not to support him as QB1. Even if it is by default with no obvious upgrades available in free agency or trade.

Which are?

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Which are?

Jaws had this to say recently:

"I do not see the ceiling that high for him. I see a competent quarterback. I see a guy that’s going to play solid football for 10 years in this league. But do you want to be 10-7, 9-8, who do you want to be? What’s your record? Do you want to be a .500 team? Or do you want to be a Super Bowl team? I thought throughout the season, Jalen Hurts played solid football. The playoff game caused me pause. There were opportunities that were left on the field by the quarterback. So, now, hey, I love a lot of the things he does. He’s still a young, developing quarterback. I’ll leave that up to Howie and Nick to make that decision what they want to do. But you don’t go backwards with Hurts, he’s a solid NFL quarterback. But is the ceiling up here? I’m having a hard time buying into that.”

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Jaws had this to say recently:

"I do not see the ceiling that high for him. I see a competent quarterback. I see a guy that’s going to play solid football for 10 years in this league. But do you want to be 10-7, 9-8, who do you want to be? What’s your record? Do you want to be a .500 team? Or do you want to be a Super Bowl team? I thought throughout the season, Jalen Hurts played solid football. The playoff game caused me pause. There were opportunities that were left on the field by the quarterback. So, now, hey, I love a lot of the things he does. He’s still a young, developing quarterback. I’ll leave that up to Howie and Nick to make that decision what they want to do. But you don’t go backwards with Hurts, he’s a solid NFL quarterback. But is the ceiling up here? I’m having a hard time buying into that.”

I agree with Jaws. I think the only problem that exists, is with the fans. Hurts will have to ...re-invent himself in order to compensate for his weaknesses, and when he does..he should be solid. Not Aaron Rodgers, but competent enough to win if surrounded with talent. Have faith people. Lets see how he performs in year 3. I expect him to get better.

6 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Which are?

Letter writing

7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Jaws had this to say recently:

"I do not see the ceiling that high for him. I see a competent quarterback. I see a guy that’s going to play solid football for 10 years in this league. But do you want to be 10-7, 9-8, who do you want to be? What’s your record? Do you want to be a .500 team? Or do you want to be a Super Bowl team? I thought throughout the season, Jalen Hurts played solid football. The playoff game caused me pause. There were opportunities that were left on the field by the quarterback. So, now, hey, I love a lot of the things he does. He’s still a young, developing quarterback. I’ll leave that up to Howie and Nick to make that decision what they want to do. But you don’t go backwards with Hurts, he’s a solid NFL quarterback. But is the ceiling up here? I’m having a hard time buying into that.”

Boring take. The ceiling never is there for young qbs that aren’t taken in the first three picks until they show it by winning a lot in the playoffs. You can read the team record and know what people will say. Very few have opinions that actually project things.. 

I was 100% convinced Hurts is the guy. I too felt really bad about the game against TB. But in all fairness the difference in experience between Hurts and Siriani to Tom and Bruce was as big as it ever gets. That matters.

This year will tell us all we need to know though. If he can make that leap, and it’s not uncommon for a QB after his first full season as a starter, he might still be the guy. If he can’t even with what will be a very improved roster- time to move on.

1 hour ago, Infam said:

Boring take. The ceiling never is there for young qbs that aren’t taken in the first three picks until they show it by winning a lot in the playoffs. You can read the team record and know what people will say. Very few have opinions that actually project things.. 

I was 100% convinced Hurts is the guy. I too felt really bad about the game against TB. But in all fairness the difference in experience between Hurts and Siriani to Tom and Bruce was as big as it ever gets. That matters.

This year will tell us all we need to know though. If he can make that leap, and it’s not uncommon for a QB after his first full season as a starter, he might still be the guy. If he can’t even with what will be a very improved roster- time to move on.

I applaud your faith in Howie.  I don't understand it, but I respect it.  I'm in the camp of hoping that Howie doesn't find a way to screw it up.  We have 3 picks in the range of 15-19.

First round picks from #14 and on since 2010, when Howie got the big chair.
Jalen Reagor (21)
Andre Dillard (22)
Derek Barnett (14)
Nelson Agholor (20)
Marcus Smith (26)
Danny Watkins (23)

 

Doesn't exactly instill me with confidence.

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I applaud your faith in Howie.  I don't understand it, but I respect it.  I'm in the camp of hoping that Howie doesn't find a way to screw it up.  We have 3 picks in the range of 15-19.

First round picks from #14 and on since 2010, when Howie got the big chair.

Last years draft was very successful. And I think there should be at least two QBs taken before we are on the clock. This years draft is pretty deep, so even after a dozen players got taken (outside QB) we should have plenty of excellent options.

And it’s not just the draft. I expect us to improve in FA too. And we lost barely anyone. Plus it’s no longer rookie coaches, Hurts got a full year starting.. So yeah, I think it’s highly likely this years team will be quite improved.

1 hour ago, Infam said:

Boring take. The ceiling never is there for young qbs that aren’t taken in the first three picks until they show it by winning a lot in the playoffs. You can read the team record and know what people will say. Very few have opinions that actually project things.. 

I was 100% convinced Hurts is the guy. I too felt really bad about the game against TB. But in all fairness the difference in experience between Hurts and Siriani to Tom and Bruce was as big as it ever gets. That matters.

This year will tell us all we need to know though. If he can make that leap, and it’s not uncommon for a QB after his first full season as a starter, he might still be the guy. If he can’t even with what will be a very improved roster- time to move on.

I just wanted to post it to be fair. I was curious when Jaws was going to comment on Hurts and what he would have to say. Earlier in the thread, people were complaining about the "sources" of posted opinions and I want to make sure we hear opinions from sources we know. So Jaws is still on the fence. McNabb is in Hurts' corner. 

There will be people that take what Jaws said and say, "See? Hurts has a low ceiling and we should move on." There will be others that read / hear it and say, " Jaws called him a solid NFL QB, which contradicts what some hear are telling us that he's not an NFL caliber QB."

Then there are people like me that think football is full of cliches and "floor / ceiling" is one of the biggest out there. It's fun to play with imaginary settings and pretend success is limited by such things. 

1 hour ago, Infam said:

Last years draft was very successful. And I think there should be at least two QBs taken before we are on the clock. This years draft is pretty deep, so even after a dozen players got taken (outside QB) we should have plenty of excellent options.

And it’s not just the draft. I expect us to improve in FA too. And we lost barely anyone. Plus it’s no longer rookie coaches, Hurts got a full year starting.. So yeah, I think it’s highly likely this years team will be quite improved.

Last year's draft had no picks in the teens, which is the danger zone for Howie.

 

As for FA... we are rolling another $30+M over in dead money to 2023... so they can't be too crazy spending in FA... which is another reason I'm "ok" with Hurts coming back versus being foolhardy and trading tons of resources for a QB, the new QB will also eat a big hole in the available money.  

Howie likes to make splashes in free agency when he can, but it doesn't always work out when he does.  Hargrave was a nice signing, but putting a ton of resources into the DT position doesn't make a ton of sense in roster building.  Slay was nice, but was a trade who also cost top dollar.  Then there's the likes of the  two Jacksons (though, Desean was technically a trade, Howie still resigned him to an overly expensive new deal for basically zero production), we're still paying for Malik on the 2022 cap.  

Long story short, it's hard to have faith in Howie fixing it.  He caught lightning in a bottle in 2017, and thank God for it!  But, expecting him to even come close to that and making major upgrades... I just don't see it happening.  I'd be happy to be wrong though.

I told you guys Rodgers nor Russell was happening but I had to listen to that mess all last year.    They were both way too expensive.   Jalen should be good to go next year.  Which would be Year 3 (2nd as the Starter).   After that we can see were we stand.  Obviously based on last year, Winning the Division and Winning in the Playoffs should be the goal after 2nd Place Wild Card Finish.  

41 minutes ago, KINGnabb said:

I told you guys Rodgers nor Russell was happening but I had to listen to that mess all last year.    They were both way too expensive.   Jalen should be good to go next year.  Which would be Year 3 (2nd as the Starter).   After that we can see were we stand.  Obviously based on last year, Winning the Division and Winning in the Playoffs should be the goal after 2nd Place Wild Card Finish.  

I didn‘t think they‘d do it either, but this wasn‘t about money. They just didn‘t want to be here.

18 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

I told you guys Rodgers nor Russell was happening but I had to listen to that mess all last year.    They were both way too expensive.   Jalen should be good to go next year.  Which would be Year 3 (2nd as the Starter).   After that we can see were we stand.  Obviously based on last year, Winning the Division and Winning in the Playoffs should be the goal after 2nd Place Wild Card Finish.  

If it was all about expensive, Howie wouldn't have gotten involved in the discussions...but he did.

So much for the lip service of "building around Hurts".

34 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

If it was all about expensive, Howie wouldn't have gotten involved in the discussions...but he did.

So much for the lip service of "building around Hurts" also.  

Yup, just the fact that they made an offer means they know Hurts aint their guy. I see it, you see it, Howie and Nick see it. Huggers got their blindfolds on.

7 hours ago, Infam said:

I didn‘t think they‘d do it either, but this wasn‘t about money. They just didn‘t want to be here.

Why would any QB want to come play for a city that loves the backup more?

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Why would any QB want to come play for a city that loves the backup more?

Winning cures all eventually.

20 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I applaud your faith in Howie.  I don't understand it, but I respect it.  I'm in the camp of hoping that Howie doesn't find a way to screw it up.  We have 3 picks in the range of 15-19.

First round picks from #14 and on since 2010, when Howie got the big chair.
Jalen Reagor (21)
Andre Dillard (22)
Derek Barnett (14)
Nelson Agholor (20)
Marcus Smith (26)
Danny Watkins (23)

 

Doesn't exactly instill me with confidence.

I sort of feel that overall, late 1st rounders tend be some of the trickiest, most unpredictable picks to make. Yeah Howie has a pretty awful record of it, but I wonder if you look at the whole history of the league overall, you might see how many great players actually came from late 1st rounds, it's probably below the the amount of value you would expect from that high a draft position. There tends to be a lot more misses than hits.

1 hour ago, opa-opa said:

I sort of feel that overall, late 1st rounders tend be some of the trickiest, most unpredictable picks to make. Yeah Howie has a pretty awful record of it, but I wonder if you look at the whole history of the league overall, you might see how many great players actually came from late 1st rounds, it's probably below the the amount of value you would expect from that high a draft position. There tends to be a lot more misses than hits.

You would have a point if there wasn't better players taken almost immediately after every one of those Howie picks at positions we also needed or at the same position

10 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Why would any QB want to come play for a city that loves the backup more?

Be a better QB than the backup.  Problem solved.

27 minutes ago, Mortimer said:

Be a better QB than the backup.  Problem solved.

You mean like how McNabb was better than Feeley?

17 hours ago, greend said:

Yup, just the fact that they made an offer means they know Hurts aint their guy. I see it, you see it, Howie and Nick see it. Huggers got their blindfolds on.

Just wait for the reaction when Howie jumps both feet into the Watson sweepstakes.  Huggers will come unhinged.

3 hours ago, opa-opa said:

I sort of feel that overall, late 1st rounders tend be some of the trickiest, most unpredictable picks to make. Yeah Howie has a pretty awful record of it, but I wonder if you look at the whole history of the league overall, you might see how many great players actually came from late 1st rounds, it's probably below the the amount of value you would expect from that high a draft position. There tends to be a lot more misses than hits.

That's true to a point.  Yes, there does tend to be more misses than hits.  I wouldn't qualify it as a lot more.  The hit rate in the first round is often discussed as being about 50%.  Obviously the higher up, the higher the odds would be.  But Round 2 doesn't drop off to 20% or anything like that.  So, the end of Round 1 is still pretty close to a 50-50, but it does tilt a little towards more misses.  

However, that doesn't excuse Howie missing every single time when drafting in that range.  Literally, every single time, and in doing so, has made some boneheaded decisions that people knew in the moment it happened was a mistake.  Reagor over Jefferson highlights the list, but it's certainly not the only one.

 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

You mean like how McNabb was better than Feeley?

McNabb was better than Feeley

55 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Just wait for the reaction when Howie jumps both feet into the Watson sweepstakes.  Huggers will come unhinged.

Some people are wishcasting Hurts to be a good TOP tier QB. For all sorts of reasons. 

1) It would be the best thing for the Eagles to already have their QB for the future- could spend all their efforts building a team around him

2) He seems to be a likable, "good guy"

3) Some like he has "swag" 

4) Some love the highlight reel run threat potential

5) Small number may be racially motivated? Rooting for a good guy minority, I get that. 

 

But the bottom line is, he just doesn't have the ability to be a top tier QB in the NFL. He has athletic ability, (only get you so far) but he lacks the read/recognition and porocessing ability POST SNAP.  He will get better, but his ceiling is low. I doubt he can improve enough in this area, or he would have shown you signs he was improving. 

 

Here is a very unpopular opinion but is based on reality:  Wentz and Hurts floors are about the same right now, Wentz just has a higher ceiling (not saying he will ever reach it) But we have seen Wentz play at a top level, so we know he is capable, we have never seen Hurts be any better than he is right now.  No I would not settle on either. And frankly Wentz costs you more, but his upside is higher than Hurts, we just may never see it again.  Thats just the reality of their abilities and QB play. 

 

 

9 hours ago, greend said:

McNabb was better than Feeley

Exactly. Yet that didn't stop a portion of the fan base from clamoring for Feeley even though every single aspect of the offense was statistically worse during that stretch where he filled in.