9 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

If you really like Strong, why not take him at #19 overall?

If you think he will be a starter one day, does it matter when you pick him?

Worried that Mel Kiper will criticize us on national tv?

"Oh, wow. Howie Roseman and the Eagles just reached there . . . "

Risk mitigation.  I really like Strong in Round 3.  I don't like him at #19.

Do I believe he has the chance to be a starter one day?  Yes.   But, I am willing to wait until Round 3 for when the risk and reward balances out.  Too much risk in Round 1, maybe even Round 2.   But the rest of this QB class offers me nothing to get me excited that they are more than a bottom third starter or a top backup.

I like anyone who isn't Hurts to start this year.  It's ludicrous to waste another season on him

The playoff game against the Bucs was a big let-down for me. But now with some distance I think it was a decent year given all the moving parts, the inexperience of coaches and players and the general roster strength.

I am looking forward to see how good Hurts is this year and how much he can improve and I still got hopes he’ll show the doubters he’s the guy.

But no excuses this year. I think the roster will be very improved, the system is implemented, he had a full year as starter. Either he steps up and wows everyone this season or he needs to be replaced. I get others got more time but I don’t care. This season is do or die for him with this team.

27 minutes ago, Infam said:

The playoff game against the Bucs was a big let-down for me. But now with some distance I think it was a decent year given all the moving parts, the inexperience of coaches and players and the general roster strength.

I am looking forward to see how good Hurts is this year and how much he can improve and I still got hopes he’ll show the doubters he’s the guy.

But no excuses this year. I think the roster will be very improved, the system is implemented, he had a full year as starter. Either he steps up and wows everyone this season or he needs to be replaced. I get others got more time but I don’t care. This season is do or die for him with this team.

Yep. I'm obviously not a believer, but given there wasnt really a viable replacement available, I'm okay with him getting the year. 

Needs major strides or he needs to go.

22 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Glad we have the worst one on the list.  Great things ahead.

Tagovailoa (5th pick overall) 24 years old / 21 starts

Mayfield (1st overall) 26 years old / 59 starts

Murray (1st overall) 24 years old / 46 starts

Jones (15th overall) 23 years old / 17 starts

Hurts (53rd overall) 23 years old / 19 starts

Just now, brkmsn said:

Tagovailoa (5th pick overall) 24 years old / 21 starts

Mayfield (1st overall) 26 years old / 59 starts

Murray (1st overall) 24 years old / 46 starts

Jones (15th overall) 23 years old / 17 starts

Hurts (53rd overall) 23 years old / 19 starts

Once they get to the NFL... their draft status is irrelevant.  No brownie points or handicap points are awarded because Hurts was a 2nd round pick versus first round picks. All you pointed out was that Hurts was viewed as the weakest of the group at draft time, and everything we've seen on the field so far confirms that.  

 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Once they get to the NFL... their draft status is irrelevant.  No brownie points or handicap points are awarded because Hurts was a 2nd round pick versus first round picks. All you pointed out was that Hurts was viewed as the weakest of the group at draft time, and everything we've seen on the field so far confirms that.  

 

Most people understand that a prospect drafted in the first round is usually expected to come in and start right away while day 2 prospects may need more time. But it's okay if we want to pretend that's a myth.

20 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Most people understand that a prospect drafted in the first round is usually expected to come in and start right away while day 2 prospects may need more time. But it's okay if we want to pretend that's a myth.

Not true either because fields and lance weren't brought in to start day 1....or Rodgers. Hell, Wentz was supposed to wait. Carr started day 1, R. Wilson day 1, Dak.... Once you're drafted, you're eligible to be the starter and will be treated as such. Initial expectations may be a little higher, but the positions expectations overall stay the same. 

12 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Most people understand that a prospect drafted in the first round is usually expected to come in and start right away while day 2 prospects may need more time. But it's okay if we want to pretend that's a myth.

Did I miss something?  Did Hurts come in and start right away?  I thought last year was his 'basically a rookie' season?  

But hey, twist it anyway you want.   The point is... either he's good enough to be a starter long term, or he isn't.   Right now, he clearly isn't.  And there's nothing in his history that you can point to as a justification that he ever will.   He went to the two schools where the most QBs have been drafted from in the last 5 years... he was beaten out at one of those schools by a guy that's been a major disappointment in the pros, but we are supposed to believe that in year 3 he'll turn a corner?

Let's go back to his coaching history... he was raised by a high school football coach, who's friend is Brian Johnson, a QB coach... think he didn't receive some QB coaching from Johnson in high school?   He went to Alabama and was coached by Brian Daboll.  And he went to Oklahoma and was coached by Lincoln Riley, who just so happened to be the guy that sent Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray to the NFL... with two of the three being the #1 overall pick.  And somehow we are supposed to believe that Hurts hasn't had the right coaching yet to blossom into this future stud QB?

 

Hurts is what he is... he's a runner first, and a passer second.  That's what he was when he entered Alabama.  That's why he was pulled from the National Championship game.  His runs weren't working and his passing was terrible.  So, he got yanked, they put in the true freshman Tua, and he passed them to a victory.  Hurts then was beat out in competition against Tua the following spring and was the backup as a junior.  And then transferred to Oklahoma, because he was blocked by Tua.  And we all know how great a QB Tua is.  Hurts is still a running threat more than a passing threat, and those types of QBs don't last in the NFL, and they have never been successful in the playoffs.  The only way forward for him is to be completely torn down and built back up as a QB, ala Steve Young back in the 80s by Bill Walsh.  I just don't see it happening.   Sorry.  Hurts isn't the guy to build this roster around.  That brand of football doesn't work in the NFL.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Did I miss something?  Did Hurts come in and start right away?  I thought last year was his 'basically a rookie' season?  

But hey, twist it anyway you want.   The point is... either he's good enough to be a starter long term, or he isn't.   Right now, he clearly isn't.  And there's nothing in his history that you can point to as a justification that he ever will.   He went to the two schools where the most QBs have been drafted from in the last 5 years... he was beaten out at one of those schools by a guy that's been a major disappointment in the pros, but we are supposed to believe that in year 3 he'll turn a corner?

Let's go back to his coaching history... he was raised by a high school football coach, who's friend is Brian Johnson, a QB coach... think he didn't receive some QB coaching from Johnson in high school?   He went to Alabama and was coached by Brian Daboll.  And he went to Oklahoma and was coached by Lincoln Riley, who just so happened to be the guy that sent Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray to the NFL... with two of the three being the #1 overall pick.  And somehow we are supposed to believe that Hurts hasn't had the right coaching yet to blossom into this future stud QB?

 

Hurts is what he is... he's a runner first, and a passer second.  That's what he was when he entered Alabama.  That's why he was pulled from the National Championship game.  His runs weren't working and his passing was terrible.  So, he got yanked, they put in the true freshman Tua, and he passed them to a victory.  Hurts then was beat out in competition against Tua the following spring and was the backup as a junior.  And then transferred to Oklahoma, because he was blocked by Tua.  And we all know how great a QB Tua is.  Hurts is still a running threat more than a passing threat, and those types of QBs don't last in the NFL, and they have never been successful in the playoffs.  The only way forward for him is to be completely torn down and built back up as a QB, ala Steve Young back in the 80s by Bill Walsh.  I just don't see it happening.   Sorry.  Hurts isn't the guy to build this roster around.  That brand of football doesn't work in the NFL.

I'm not one of the people calling last year a "rookie season" for Hurts. It was his 2nd year.

 

All the other stuff is meaningless. Tua beat him out in college. Big deal. "Tua disappointed ..." That doesn't mean he isn't turning the corner as a pro either. Miami and Tua  played much better in the 2nd half of the season last year and now he's getting weapons. But Tua's success or failures, have nothing to do with Hurts' as a pro. Absolutely nothing. 

 

I never claimed Hurts hasn't had coaching or the right coaching. I'm just saying he wasn't expected to come right into the NFL and be a franchise QB. How many QBs not drafted in the 1st round have historically been expected to be a sure-fire franchise QB? But teams still pick QBs after round 1 because history shows that they do sometimes develop. 

11 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I'm not one of the people calling last year a "rookie season" for Hurts. It was his 2nd year.

All the other stuff is meaningless. Tua beat him out in college. Big deal. "Tua disappointed ..." That doesn't mean he isn't turning the corner as a pro either. Miami and Tua  played much better in the 2nd half of the season last year and now he's getting weapons. But Tua's success or failures, have nothing to do with Hurts' as a pro. Absolutely nothing. 

I never claimed Hurts hasn't had coaching or the right coaching. I'm just saying he wasn't expected to come right into the NFL and be a franchise QB. How many QBs not drafted in the 1st round have historically been expected to be a sure-fire franchise QB? But teams still pick QBs after round 1 because history shows that they do sometimes develop. 

You are right.  Hurts was drafted (stupidly) to be a backup QB and gadget player in Round 2.  He then was forced into the starting role, because the team miscalculated how that would affect the starting QB.  And here we are, with a gadget player/backup QB as the starter by default, not by design.  Perhaps that's why so many people see him as a short term fill in at the position and in no way a long term solution.

It's funny to me how you guys even write off someone like Tua. Dude is still really young and green and has been hampered by injury and coaching chaos. Plenty of time for him to turn it around in Miami, just like Hurts in Philly. Patience is a virtue, in everything, but especially QB development. This fanbase has no patience.

Eagles fans: I’ll take anyone but Hurts!”

Eagles: sign Cam Newton.

Eagles fan: "okay maybe not anyone.” 😂

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Not true either because fields and lance weren't brought in to start day 1....or Rodgers. Hell, Wentz was supposed to wait. Carr started day 1, R. Wilson day 1, Dak.... Once you're drafted, you're eligible to be the starter and will be treated as such. Initial expectations may be a little higher, but the positions expectations overall stay the same. 

I think expectations do become different. I’m a big proponent in playing the QB from day 1. Even if they suck, the experience is invaluable. Too often do QBs get benched for a year and then when they’re allowed to play they suck far more than if they had 16 games under their belt.

But as far as expectations, think about Jordan Love: if someone traded for him now and started him week 1 (like say… Seattle) is he going to be treated like a round 1 rookie? Will he get 3-4 years of grooming before they decide to move on? He may get 10-17 games, maybe a year and a half max. If he sucks they’ll move on. 

7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Tagovailoa (5th pick overall) 24 years old / 21 starts

Mayfield (1st overall) 26 years old / 59 starts

Murray (1st overall) 24 years old / 46 starts

Jones (15th overall) 23 years old / 17 starts

Hurts (53rd overall) 23 years old / 19 starts

What does this have to do with him not being the worst of the group?

Just popped in to see if everyone is still making the same arguments..... Looking good 👍 

10 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Just popped in to see if everyone is still making the same arguments..... Looking good 👍 

Sometimes it's nice to know some things don't change... 😉

21 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Sometimes it's nice to know some things don't change... 😉

Yes! Lol. I think sometimes people start to really dig deep and find something new to argue about hurts but in the end it's the same crap lol

17 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Yes! Lol. I think sometimes people start to really dig deep and find something new to argue about hurts but in the end it's the same crap lol

No need to work hard, he sucks, the end.

This is such a painful topic. Hurts was a late 2nd rd pick who should have been a 3rd rd pick who was handed the starting job not out of merit but because the Eagles are dysfunctional.  Then he went on to be one of the most inaccurate passers in the league and threw for only 16 TDs and not much yardage in today's nfl. Beyond that his presence clearly stunts the development of your receivers for another year.  He never deserved the job to begin with and he shouldn't be starting now.

4 hours ago, pgcd3 said:

This is such a painful topic. Hurts was a late 2nd rd pick who should have been a 3rd rd pick who was handed the starting job not out of merit but because the Eagles are dysfunctional.  Then he went on to be one of the most inaccurate passers in the league and threw for only 16 TDs and not much yardage in today's nfl. Beyond that his presence clearly stunts the development of your receivers for another year.  He never deserved the job to begin with and he shouldn't be starting now.

Hurts to me smacks of Howie trying to atone for the Wilson mistake. They thought Wilson would fall to them in the third but he didn't so with Hurts they took him so they didn't risk the same. 

5 hours ago, pgcd3 said:

This is such a painful topic. Hurts was a late 2nd rd pick who should have been a 3rd rd pick who was handed the starting job not out of merit but because the Eagles are dysfunctional.  Then he went on to be one of the most inaccurate passers in the league and threw for only 16 TDs and not much yardage in today's nfl. Beyond that his presence clearly stunts the development of your receivers for another year.  He never deserved the job to begin with and he shouldn't be starting now.

Unfortunately, this is just another case of Howie assuming that he is the smartest guy in the room.  It's still funny to watch some people assume that same guy can snap his fingers and get us out of this QB mess in the next draft.

23 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Most people understand that a prospect drafted in the first round is usually expected to come in and start right away while day 2 prospects may need more time. But it's okay if we want to pretend that's a myth.

So you are implying that the primary difference between Hurts and the others is that he needs more time, while the other prospects should be expected to come in and perform sooner.  

So the fact that Hurts is an inferior prospect, drafted later, means we need to commit to him LONGER and give him MORE time?

What does that mean for a QB drafted in round 5 instead of 2?  Do they get a decade before we move on?

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Hurts to me smacks of Howie trying to atone for the Wilson mistake. They thought Wilson would fall to them in the third but he didn't so with Hurts they took him so they didn't risk the same. 

 

Man, you guys are really twisting yourself up in knots over this. So, now it's "Hurts was drafted to make up for a guy they missed on almost a decade earlier!" I know conspiracy theories are big these days, but...

16 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So you are implying that the primary difference between Hurts and the others is that he needs more time, while the other prospects should be expected to come in and perform sooner.  

So the fact that Hurts is an inferior prospect, drafted later, means we need to commit to him LONGER and give him MORE time?

What does that mean for a QB drafted in round 5 instead of 2?  Do they get a decade before we move on?

What do you think?  It's not different from any other position. Do we sign rookies to 10-12 year contracts? No. You draft a guy with certain expectations. If he can come in and start right away, typically he's a day-1 prospect. If the scouts think he needs time to develop, he gets picked on day 2 or 3. If after 2-3 seasons, the prospect fails to out-perform competition within the team, you move on.  This isn't rocket science and some of you need to twist everything to fit your narrative. We get it --- you want anybody besides Hurts to be our QB. Meanwhile, the people whose opinions matter most (people actually working for the Eagles) are behind Hurts.