3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

What do you think?  It's not different from any other position. Do we sign rookies to 10-12 year contracts? No. You draft a guy with certain expectations. If he can come in and start right away, typically he's a day-1 prospect. If the scouts think he needs time to develop, he gets picked on day 2 or 3. If after 2-3 seasons, the prospect fails to out-perform competition within the team, you move on.  This isn't rocket science and some of you need to twist everything to fit your narrative. We get it --- you want anybody besides Hurts to be our QB. Meanwhile, the people whose opinion matters most (people actually working for the Eagles) are behind Hurts. 

Hurts is a terrible passer and therefore a terrible QB.  The fact that he was a second round pick and, according to you, has lower expectations, does not mean he gets MORE leash than consensus better prospects at the most important position in sports.  It simply means he never deserved the opportunity in the first place.

And we have no idea if the Eagles are behind Hurts.  The generally accepted rumors are that they've done almost everything possible to upgrade him for 2 years now.  Maybe those rumors are false.  And the people who make decisions for the Eagles...yes, their opinions are what matters, but their opinions are also horrible at times.  They are the ones that drafted a RB to play QB in round 2 in the first place.

32 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Man, you guys are really twisting yourself up in knots over this. So, now it's "Hurts was drafted to make up for a guy they missed on almost a decade earlier!" I know conspiracy theories are big these days, but...

From the Horse's mouth.

In 2012, we had a vision,” Roseman said. "We had a vision that we would draft a quarterback who’s been extremely successful, and I don’t want tampering charges on me but I think we can understand who that was, and then come back in the fourth round and draft a quarterback who won a world championship for us and go back-to-back. And I feel like we got a little cute. And I don’t know that there’s a big difference between taking the 53rd pick in the draft and taking a pick in the third round if you feel strongly about a guy.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/2020-nfl-draft-jalen-hurts-russell-wilson-howie-roseman

 

Riddle me this, Batman:  Who is Roseman referring to if not Wilson in this quote?

At NFL meetings, Howie and Jeff Lurie said that the Eagles are committed to Jalen Hurts.

If you are committed to Jalen Hurts, you are:

1) Using all 3 first round draft picks this year to improve the team. No trading picks into next year's draft. No picking a QB. 

2) Confident in trading Gardner Minshew. Don't need him.

3) Fixing the WR position. One playmaker and the rest are pretenders.

4) Fixing the Defense. Our defense needs to make stops. Gotta get off the field. Can't get into high scoring games with a run based, time of possession, low scoring offense.

 

2 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

At NFL meetings, Howie and Jeff Lurie said that the Eagles are committed to Jalen Hurts.

If you are committed to Jalen Hurts, you are:

1) Using all 3 first round draft picks this year to improve the team. No trading picks into next year's draft. No picking a QB. 

2) Confident in trading Gardner Minshew. Don't need him.

3) Fixing the WR position. One playmaker and the rest are pretenders.

4) Fixing the Defense. Our defense needs to make stops. Gotta get off the field. Can't get into high scoring games with a run based, time of possession, low scoring offense.

 

5) Deluded to the point that there is really no hope for the franchise.

21 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Hurts is a terrible passer and therefore a terrible QB.  The fact that he was a second round pick and, according to you, has lower expectations, does not mean he gets MORE leash than consensus better prospects at the most important position in sports.  It simply means he never deserved the opportunity in the first place.

And we have no idea if the Eagles are behind Hurts.  The generally accepted rumors are that they've done almost everything possible to upgrade him for 2 years now.  Maybe those rumors are false.  And the people who make decisions for the Eagles...yes, their opinions are what matters, but their opinions are also horrible at times.  They are the ones that drafted a RB to play QB in round 2 in the first place.

Where did I say "lower expectations?" I believe I said they are not as far along in development. Those are two different things. I couldn't care less about Hurts' "leash" at this time. Why? Because he showed improvement overall last season. He is, whether or not you can accept it, an NFL starting QB. I know the Pro Bowl is a joke to fans. The game itself is pointless and the Super Bowl prevents deserving players from going. But to receive recognition from other players and coaches around the league shows that there's a different opinion of Hurts (who was the 1st alternate) from those who are actually employed by the NFL than we see from the critics in the fan base. 

I'm not going to pretend to know if Hurts will continue to get better in year 3. I expect it, but one never knows. But at least I'm not pretending he can't. 

10 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

At NFL meetings, Howie and Jeff Lurie said that the Eagles are committed to Jalen Hurts.

If you are committed to Jalen Hurts, you are:

1) Using all 3 first round draft picks this year to improve the team. No trading picks into next year's draft. No picking a QB. 

2) Confident in trading Gardner Minshew. Don't need him.

3) Fixing the WR position. One playmaker and the rest are pretenders.

4) Fixing the Defense. Our defense needs to make stops. Gotta get off the field. Can't get into high scoring games with a run based, time of possession, low scoring offense.

 

1) Contractually, using all 3 1st rd picks in one season may not be as wise as trying to trade 1 for a 1 next year and something else this year.

2) we still need a backup

3) You are severely under-valuing Watkins

4) This is where we should focus our resources

4 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Hurts to me smacks of Howie trying to atone for the Wilson mistake. They thought Wilson would fall to them in the third but he didn't so with Hurts they took him so they didn't risk the same. 

If that's the main motivation, he will draft Willis and trade Hurts.  More talent than Hurts and gets us back years of rookie contract.  Willis is much more like Wilson than Hurts.  

28 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

From the Horse's mouth.

In 2012, we had a vision,” Roseman said. "We had a vision that we would draft a quarterback who’s been extremely successful, and I don’t want tampering charges on me but I think we can understand who that was, and then come back in the fourth round and draft a quarterback who won a world championship for us and go back-to-back. And I feel like we got a little cute. And I don’t know that there’s a big difference between taking the 53rd pick in the draft and taking a pick in the third round if you feel strongly about a guy.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/2020-nfl-draft-jalen-hurts-russell-wilson-howie-roseman

 

Riddle me this, Batman:  Who is Roseman referring to if not Wilson in this quote?

 

All that's saying is that he learned that you need to go get your guy when he's available instead of being cheap and trying to maximize value when it could be to your detriment. I wouldn't call that atonement, it's just an altered approach.

24 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Where did I say "lower expectations?" I believe I said they are not as far along in development. Those are two different things. I couldn't care less about Hurts' "leash" at this time. Why? Because he showed improvement overall last season. He is, whether or not you can accept it, an NFL starting QB. I know the Pro Bowl is a joke to fans. The game itself is pointless and the Super Bowl prevents deserving players from going. But to receive recognition from other players and coaches around the league shows that there's a different opinion of Hurts (who was the 1st alternate) from those who are actually employed by the NFL than we see from the critics in the fan base. 

I'm not going to pretend to know if Hurts will continue to get better in year 3. I expect it, but one never knows. But at least I'm not pretending he can't. 

Being better in year 2 than rookie year does not fulfill all necessary criteria to be a starting qb in the nfl.  

29 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Where did I say "lower expectations?" I believe I said they are not as far along in development. Those are two different things. I couldn't care less about Hurts' "leash" at this time. Why? Because he showed improvement overall last season. He is, whether or not you can accept it, an NFL starting QB. I know the Pro Bowl is a joke to fans. The game itself is pointless and the Super Bowl prevents deserving players from going. But to receive recognition from other players and coaches around the league shows that there's a different opinion of Hurts (who was the 1st alternate) from those who are actually employed by the NFL than we see from the critics in the fan base. 

I'm not going to pretend to know if Hurts will continue to get better in year 3. I expect it, but one never knows. But at least I'm not pretending he can't. 

What makes you say he was the first alternate? 

 

The 3 named QBs were: Rodgers, Brady and Murray.  

When Rodgers backed out, Cousins took his place.
When Brady backed out, Wilson took his place.

Are you suggesting that if Murray had backed out, that Hurts would have been the next guy up?   Seems to me, Hurts was no higher than the 3rd alternate.

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

What makes you say he was the first alternate? 

 

The 3 named QBs were: Rodgers, Brady and Murray.  

When Rodgers backed out, Cousins took his place.
When Brady backed out, Wilson took his place.

Are you suggesting that if Murray had backed out, that Hurts would have been the next guy up?   Seems to me, Hurts was no higher than the 3rd alternate.

That makes him what 7th best in the NFC?  Rodgers, Brady, Murray, cousins, Dak, Jimmy G, then him? This without knowing how fields and Lance play this year...there's only 16 teams and he's middle of the pack with the weaker QB conference. Man I hope he is capable of a giant leap. I just fear he is a six foot man with a seven foot ceiling

11 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

That makes him what 7th best in the NFC?  Rodgers, Brady, Murray, cousins, Dak, Jimmy G, then him? This without knowing how fields and Lance play this year...there's only 16 teams and he's middle of the pack with the weaker QB conference. Man I hope he is capable of a giant leap. I just fear he is a six foot man with a seven foot ceiling

Stafford should be on that list ahead of Hurts.  

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Stafford should be on that list ahead of Hurts.  

Definitely missed a big one. Thank you 

20 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Definitely missed a big one. Thank you 

No worries.  I was trying to figure out how Stafford wasn't a Pro Bowler or alternate last year, but he might have been an alternate but unavailable due to playing in the Super Bowl, which would likely mean that Hurts was the 4th alternate at best for the Pro Bowl, and makes one wonder if every QB is somehow an alternate now in some way or another.  

I just don't understand the rationale behind giving Hurts more time and seeing what he can do.

Hurts is a bad passer.  He has always been a bad passer.  He projects as a bad passer.  He has demonstrated the decision-making and field IQ of a bad passer.  He has the physical skill set of a bad passer.  He has the run first playing style of a bad passer.

WHAT THE HELL MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU WANT?  WOW!...he was better in year 2 after his rookie year!  While it doesn't always happen, the expectation for every player in the NFL is to be better in year 2 than 1.  That's reason we need to wait this out for 3, 4 years?  

39 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No worries.  I was trying to figure out how Stafford wasn't a Pro Bowler or alternate last year, but he might have been an alternate but unavailable due to playing in the Super Bowl, which would likely mean that Hurts was the 4th alternate at best for the Pro Bowl, and makes one wonder if every QB is somehow an alternate now in some way or another.  

Yeah the alternate doesn't impress me considering who he was picked over. Now if it was like an all pro situation....nice....but as a late late alt pro bowl player. Cool, tallest midget

4 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Man, you guys are really twisting yourself up in knots over this. So, now it's "Hurts was drafted to make up for a guy they missed on almost a decade earlier!" I know conspiracy theories are big these days, but...

I'm saying it slightly tongue in cheek... But I do think they drafted him to an extent because they didn't want to miss out again. 

Just now, Shalodeep said:

Yeah the alternate doesn't impress me considering who he was picked over. Now if it was like an all pro situation....nice....but as a late late alt pro bowl player. Cool, tallest midget

exactly

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'm saying it slightly tongue in cheek... But I do think they drafted him to an extent because they didn't want to miss out again. 

FOMO!

3 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

If that's the main motivation, he will draft Willis and trade Hurts.  More talent than Hurts and gets us back years of rookie contract.  Willis is much more like Wilson than Hurts.  

I don't disagree there. The trouble is they'd have to give a lot up to move up to get Willis potentially. 

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't disagree there. The trouble is they'd have to give a lot up to move up to get Willis potentially. 

Willis is the direction the league seems to be leaning, but it seems the old school guys keep winning ... I know everyone wants to be ahead of the curve with the super athletic guys, but none are wearing any jewelry 

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Willis is the direction the league seems to be leaning, but it seems the old school guys keep winning ... I know everyone wants to be ahead of the curve with the super athletic guys, but none are wearing any jewelry 

The league keeps trying to go in this direction, and it never happens.  Cunningham, McNabb, McNair, Vick were all going to change how the QB position is played.

Yet here we are with pocket passers still dominating the game.

51 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The league keeps trying to go in this direction, and it never happens.  Cunningham, McNabb, McNair, Vick were all going to change how the QB position is played.

Yet here we are with pocket passers still dominating the game.

And the real irony is that Cunningham, Mcnabb, Mcnair, and Vick all had their best success...tremendous success...after they gave up the running and became pocket passers.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I just don't understand the rationale behind giving Hurts more time and seeing what he can do.

Hurts is a bad passer.  He has always been a bad passer.  He projects as a bad passer.  He has demonstrated the decision-making and field IQ of a bad passer.  He has the physical skill set of a bad passer.  He has the run first playing style of a bad passer.

WHAT THE HELL MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU WANT?  WOW!...he was better in year 2 after his rookie year!  While it doesn't always happen, the expectation for every player in the NFL is to be better in year 2 than 1.  That's reason we need to wait this out for 3, 4 years?  

In addition to everything you said, he's a bad passer....

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

And the real irony is that Cunningham, Mcnabb, Mcnair, and Vick all had their best success...tremendous success...after they gave up the running and became pocket passers.

One thing about those passers is neither had the noodle arm Hurts has. They had a canon and threw a strong deep ball and rarely underthrew wide open receivers downfield.