PFF had an interesting discussion about the qbs in this year's draft and Jalen Hurts today.

(8) NFL Draft QB rankings, pass-rush production importance and drafting animals | PFF NFL Podcast - YouTube

The Jalen Hurts part starts at 15:45. 

He does a good job of making the same case for Hurts that some people have made throughout this thread, namely that his ability to generate positive plays through his athleticism makes it worthwhile to see what his ceiling is as a passer.

I am posting this not to change anyone's minds about him, since that is not possible. But rather to illustrate that the view of people who get paid to talk about football differs pretty significantly from a lot of people on here who think they have the most intelligent position on the matter.  

 

 

3 hours ago, jsb235 said:

PFF had an interesting discussion about the qbs in this year's draft and Jalen Hurts today.

(8) NFL Draft QB rankings, pass-rush production importance and drafting animals | PFF NFL Podcast - YouTube

The Jalen Hurts part starts at 15:45. 

He does a good job of making the same case for Hurts that some people have made throughout this thread, namely that his ability to generate positive plays through his athleticism makes it worthwhile to see what his ceiling is as a passer.

I am posting this not to change anyone's minds about him, since that is not possible. But rather to illustrate that the view of people who get paid to talk about football differs pretty significantly from a lot of people on here who think they have the most intelligent position on the matter.  

 

 

All in all what anyone of us thinks about Hurts is irrelevant. What matters is what the Eagles have done and what they think. 
 

[And that’s the approach the Eagles are taking this offseason, as they continuously promote their commitment to Hurts for the 2022 season.

"We have a young, 23-year-old playoff quarterback who gets better every year in college and in the pros,” Lurie said at the NFL owners meetings on Tuesday evening. "He’s had really one full year. No one knows where that’s going to end up. What you do know is you have a guy that is incredibly dedicated, excellent leader of men. Players around him gravitate toward him.]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-eagles-brass-convinced-jalen-110000068.html
 

The bottom line is the Eagles aren’t drafting a quarterback, didn’t trade for a quarterback, and now the Coach, GM, and owner all said that Jalen is the guy. Most of the same people around here trashing Jalen were balling their eyeballs out when Wentz quit on the team and cried his way out of town after having one of the worst seasons a modern day quarterback ever had had so sorry if I think very little of their knowledge of who is or isn’t a good quarterback. The reality is Jalen is the Eagles starter and people need to accept that or find another team to root for period. 

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

All in all what anyone of us thinks about Hurts is irrelevant. What matters is what the Eagles have done and what they think. 
 

[And that’s the approach the Eagles are taking this offseason, as they continuously promote their commitment to Hurts for the 2022 season.

"We have a young, 23-year-old playoff quarterback who gets better every year in college and in the pros,” Lurie said at the NFL owners meetings on Tuesday evening. "He’s had really one full year. No one knows where that’s going to end up. What you do know is you have a guy that is incredibly dedicated, excellent leader of men. Players around him gravitate toward him.]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-eagles-brass-convinced-jalen-110000068.html
 

The bottom line is the Eagles aren’t drafting a quarterback, didn’t trade for a quarterback, and now the Coach, GM, and owner all said that Jalen is the guy. Most of the same people around here trashing Jalen were balling their eyeballs out when Wentz quit on the team and cried his way out of town after having one of the worst seasons a modern day quarterback ever had had so sorry if I think very little of their knowledge of who is or isn’t a good quarterback. The reality is Jalen is the Eagles starter and people need to accept that or find another team to root for period. 

After they failed to get Wilson and been paying close attention to Pickett.... I'm guessing that has all been for show....or maybe, just maybe they have attempted to replace him multiple times this off-season and they learned a better way to approach the scenario than the Browns handled Baker MayCry

10 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

What makes you say he was the first alternate? 

 

The 3 named QBs were: Rodgers, Brady and Murray.  

When Rodgers backed out, Cousins took his place.
When Brady backed out, Wilson took his place.

Are you suggesting that if Murray had backed out, that Hurts would have been the next guy up?   Seems to me, Hurts was no higher than the 3rd alternate.

I might have misunderstood  and you may be correct. I had assumed Hurts didn't play because he was also hurt. They announced the ankle surgery on 2-2-2022 and the final Pro Bowl roster on 2-5-2022. 

10 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Being better in year 2 than rookie year does not fulfill all necessary criteria to be a starting qb in the nfl.  

Starting games for the whole season for reasons not injury related fulfills the criteria 100%. 

30 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Starting games for the whole season for reasons not injury related fulfills the criteria 100%. 

So you are going with the argument that we ignore if he *should be* a starter and just defend him on the grounds that he *is* a starting QB.  

Great.  

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

After they failed to get Wilson and been paying close attention to Pickett.... I'm guessing that has all been for show....or maybe, just maybe they have attempted to replace him multiple times this off-season and they learned a better way to approach the scenario than the Browns handled Baker MayCry

Or maybe the media has been portraying this narrative that the Eagles are lying to you about Jalen Hurts to save face? All of these people they were supposed to be trying to get to replace him. Every offer that was given they could’ve out bid, but chose not to. The same media that has been telling you for over a year now they were trying to get a different to quarterback. How hard is that to do? Heck the Colts dumped Wentz and had a new quarterback in less than a month. How many quarterbacks have the Eagles basically passed on via draft or trade at this point when you have so many claiming he’s the worse quarterback in football? I know the fans seem to think Howie has a flair for the dramatic, but the truth is Howie makes generally conservative trades and the Eagles rarely give up quickly on their own draft picks especially early ones. As far as Pickett goes yeah I don’t see it. I don’t see that they’re enamored with that guy, because if they were they would have already positioned themselves in the draft to ensure they got him. Mayfield is still available. Jimmy G is still available. The Eagles could already have had those guys. Jalen Hurts is their guy. By the way this is the team that moved up to draft Carson Wentz when they already had Sam Bradford on the roster, and they drafted Hurts after giving him a huge contract so this idea that they’re the type to not have a Mayfield type situation doesn’t make sense. The quarterback factory is the originators of that kind of drama. 

In the Jeff Lurie era he's secured one total franchise Qb. Anyone who thinks they know what they are doing is fooling themselves.  Hurts is terrible at passing the ball which is kind of important for a QB

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Or maybe the media has been portraying this narrative that the Eagles are lying to you about Jalen Hurts to save face? All of these people they were supposed to be trying to get to replace him. Every offer that was given they could’ve out bid, but chose not to. The same media that has been telling you for over a year now they were trying to get a different to quarterback. How hard is that to do? Heck the Colts dumped Wentz and had a new quarterback in less than a month. How many quarterbacks have the Eagles basically passed on via draft or trade at this point when you have so many claiming he’s the worse quarterback in football? I know the fans seem to think Howie has a flair for the dramatic, but the truth is Howie makes generally conservative trades and the Eagles rarely give up quickly on their own draft picks especially early ones. As far as Pickett goes yeah I don’t see it. I don’t see that they’re enamored with that guy, because if they were they would have already positioned themselves in the draft to ensure they got him. Mayfield is still available. Jimmy G is still available. The Eagles could already have had those guys. Jalen Hurts is their guy. By the way this is the team that moved up to draft Carson Wentz when they already had Sam Bradford on the roster, and they drafted Hurts after giving him a huge contract so this idea that they’re the type to not have a Mayfield type situation doesn’t make sense. The quarterback factory is the originators of that kind of drama. 

I think they wanted a clear upgrade aka a Wilson or Watson, not just a parallel move. I have him around the 17th in the league. I wouldn't upgrade unless I was nearing or getting above the 10th mark. Mayfield or Jimmy G is definitely not a big enough move....hell may be a downgrade.  They took Pickett out to dinner and went to his games...if he makes it to 15, I wouldn't be shocked if the QB factory made the move. I'd actually be shocked if they didn't.

3 hours ago, eagle45 said:

So you are going with the argument that we ignore if he *should be* a starter and just defend him on the grounds that he *is* a starting QB.  

Great.  

He is a starting QB. He isn't the best in the NFL at this time, but he has improved and improved enough to earn the respect of players and coaches around the league. When he stops improving, I'll be concerned. If message boards had been a thing back in the day, I can only imagine how many of you would have been whining about Cunningham after his 1st 3 seasons, proclaiming to the world that we had a RB playing QB and that he had already reached his ceiling as a passer. 

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

I think they wanted a clear upgrade aka a Wilson or Watson, not just a parallel move. I have him around the 17th in the league. I wouldn't upgrade unless I was nearing or getting above the 10th mark. Mayfield or Jimmy G is definitely not a big enough move....hell may be a downgrade.  They took Pickett out to dinner and went to his games...if he makes it to 15, I wouldn't be shocked if the QB factory made the move. I'd actually be shocked if they didn't.

Pickett is a smoke screen. The Eagles trying to fool some of these teams to leap up and get him to give them a better chance of getting the guy the really want. When it comes to the Eagles it’s not the guy you’re hearing about. It’s the guy you hear nothing about. 

My whole argument against Hurts, and the Eagles' plan to use him, boils down to this:

He isn't a QB whose running ability complements his passing ability, he is a QB who needs his running ability to make up for his poor/lack of passing ability.

Also another thing is no WR FA would want to play for us with Hurts at QB. Only way we'll be able to improve our WR corps is through the draft.

The great running QBs usually run high-powered offenses that ranked among the top offenses in the league. ie Mahomes, Josh Allen, Vick when he was with the Eagles, etc. That's because not only can they pass, they can also add another dimension/weapon to the existing offense by their running.

With Hurts, his runs are basically replacing/taking away from his passes. So the offense as a whole gains nothing, it's a net zero.

 

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, brkmsn said:

He is a starting QB. He isn't the best in the NFL at this time, but he has improved and improved enough to earn the respect of players and coaches around the league. When he stops improving, I'll be concerned. If message boards had been a thing back in the day, I can only imagine how many of you would have been whining about Cunningham after his 1st 3 seasons, proclaiming to the world that we had a RB playing QB and that he had already reached his ceiling as a passer. 

Geno Smith is still improving.  Maybe he’a available.

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Pickett is a smoke screen. The Eagles trying to fool some of these teams to leap up and get him to give them a better chance of getting the guy the really want. When it comes to the Eagles it’s not the guy you’re hearing about. It’s the guy you hear nothing about. 

And Howie has been setting this up since mid season? When he was checking him out before, we were looking at multiple top ten picks so doubt it was about getting people to leap ahead of us...probably was about replacing the QB who couldn't run the first scheme the coach ran. Think about that. Imagine being a young coach, first gig, and you've been dreaming up your own scheme your whole life. You see your receivers running open so you know your scheme works and then you see your quarterback clicking his heels with such poor footwork and then he under throws it by five yards. Then you have to change your scheme to something outdated in the 80s to survive. 

7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

He is a starting QB. He isn't the best in the NFL at this time, but he has improved and improved enough to earn the respect of players and coaches around the league. When he stops improving, I'll be concerned. If message boards had been a thing back in the day, I can only imagine how many of you would have been whining about Cunningham after his 1st 3 seasons, proclaiming to the world that we had a RB playing QB and that he had already reached his ceiling as a passer. 

🤦‍♂️.    Why not bring up a more apt comparison?    Find someone with a poor arm, that had bad vision.  Tyrod Taylor is the better comp.  Cunningham had a cannon on his right shoulder.  He was also significantly taller so he could see over the line.   BUT... Cunningham's best season came when he played WITHIN the pocket.  Which is what everyone has been saying about Hurts all along.  Until Hurts learns to play from the pocket, he's going to continue to be extremely limited.   

 

BTW, Randall was the first of the 'new breed' of QB in the NFL.  We've since had almost 30 years of data that shows that in the playoffs... that style is easily shut down by playoff defenses.   Is this about winning in the regular season or about winning in the playoffs?   

26 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

🤦‍♂️.    Why not bring up a more apt comparison?    Find someone with a poor arm, that had bad vision.  Tyrod Taylor is the better comp.  Cunningham had a cannon on his right shoulder.  He was also significantly taller so he could see over the line.   BUT... Cunningham's best season came when he played WITHIN the pocket.  Which is what everyone has been saying about Hurts all along.  Until Hurts learns to play from the pocket, he's going to continue to be extremely limited.   

 

BTW, Randall was the first of the 'new breed' of QB in the NFL.  We've since had almost 30 years of data that shows that in the playoffs... that style is easily shut down by playoff defenses.   Is this about winning in the regular season or about winning in the playoffs?   

All you have to do is wait till Hurts is in his 30's for him to be better in the pocket. 

The mental gymnastics people are going through to excuse him is insane. First it was "he's basically a rookie." Now it's "it was his first year starting" even though he started games in 2020

Apparently starting 4 games doesn't mean anything

He's going into his 3rd year in the NFL. Full stop

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

🤦‍♂️.    Why not bring up a more apt comparison?    Find someone with a poor arm, that had bad vision.  Tyrod Taylor is the better comp.  Cunningham had a cannon on his right shoulder.  He was also significantly taller so he could see over the line.   BUT... Cunningham's best season came when he played WITHIN the pocket.  Which is what everyone has been saying about Hurts all along.  Until Hurts learns to play from the pocket, he's going to continue to be extremely limited.   

 

BTW, Randall was the first of the 'new breed' of QB in the NFL.  We've since had almost 30 years of data that shows that in the playoffs... that style is easily shut down by playoff defenses.   Is this about winning in the regular season or about winning in the playoffs?   

Based on the comments of those who seem to think Hurts is the answer, it is about Sportscenter highlights.  The fact that he threw 5 bad passes before does not matter when that 20 yard run is shown on a highlight show.

17 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Based on the comments of those who seem to think Hurts is the answer, it is about Sportscenter highlights.  The fact that he threw 5 bad passes before does not matter when that 20 yard run is shown on a highlight show.

Yeah but Josh Allen

58 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

The mental gymnastics people are going through to excuse him is insane. First it was "he's basically a rookie." Now it's "it was his first year starting" even though he started games in 2020

Apparently starting 4 games doesn't mean anything

He's going into his 3rd year in the NFL. Full stop

 

Formerly ride-or-die Wentz defenders talking about "mental gymnastics" 

28 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Formerly ride-or-die Wentz defenders talking about "mental gymnastics" 

He played like an MVP in 2017 and set a record for throwing 4000yds without a receiver over 500yds in 2019

What in the world has Hurts done to lean on anything? And don't say he led us to the playoffs because he definitely didn't do that

53 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

He played like an MVP in 2017 and set a record for throwing 4000yds without a receiver over 500yds in 2019

What in the world has Hurts done to lean on anything? And don't say he led us to the playoffs because he definitely didn't do that

 

2017 was practically ancient history by the time he quit on the team and forced a trade. He was pretty bad for stretches in 2019, too, or at least underwhelming, but he miraculously got them into the playoffs by playing well against a slew of bad teams down the stretch. Then he played an underwhelming game in the playoffs and got his clock cleaned by Clowney at least partially due to his signature lack of awareness.

By the time the 2021 offseason rolled around, he looked like a washed QB in addition to a crappy teammate and leader,  but you guys still defended him tooth and nail. You don't have to like Hurts, but if you're going to be in here pounding the table about people using "mental gymnastics" to defend a 23 year-old QB with 19 starts, it's hard to take you seriously when you eternally defended a 27 year-old QB with 68 starts coming off a historically bad season and with increasingly obvious signs that he lacked professionalism and leadership. 

2 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

2017 was practically ancient history by the time he quit on the team and forced a trade. He was pretty bad for stretches in 2019, too, or at least underwhelming, but he miraculously got them into the playoffs by playing well against a slew of bad teams down the stretch. Then he played an underwhelming game in the playoffs and got his clock cleaned by Clowney at least partially due to his signature lack of awareness.

By the time the 2021 offseason rolled around, he looked like a washed QB in addition to a crappy teammate and leader,  but you guys still defended him tooth and nail. You don't have to like Hurts, but if you're going to be in here pounding the table about people using "mental gymnastics" to defend a 23 year-old QB with 19 starts, it's hard to take you seriously when you eternally defended a 27 year-old QB with 68 starts coming off a historically bad season and with increasingly obvious signs that he lacked professionalism and leadership qualities. 

Doesn't matter when it happened. He at least did something to give some type of hope during his stay here before the trade. And BS about him being bad in 2019 too. He was 27 TD to 7 INT. It was a dirty hit by Clowney that took him out that should have been a flag

You're the one that brought Wentz up. Not me. I only said that he had stats to give people something to lean on. He's a Commie now so I hope he plays like 2020 for his time with them

You still haven't given me anything about Hurts. You just went on a rant about Wentz instead. Which is strange when you apparently don't like him. So can you move on from Wentz and tell me what about Hurts is there to lean on?

13 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Doesn't matter when it happened. He at least did something to give some type of hope during his stay here before the trade. And BS about him being bad in 2019 too. He was 27 TD to 7 INT. It was a dirty hit by Clowney that took him out that should have been a flag

 

I can accept that it was a dirty hit, but I also saw Wentz running around looking hesitant and leaving his body exposed with zero awareness of the oncoming player. It happened time and time again, and it finally got him on that play. He was never the kind of player to protect himself.

 

13 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

You're the one that brought Wentz up. Not me. I only said that he had stats to give people something to lean on. He's a Commie now so I hope he plays like 2020 for his time with them

You still haven't given me anything about Hurts. You just went on a rant about Wentz instead. Which is strange when you apparently don't like him. So can you move on from Wentz and tell me what about Hurts is there to lean on?

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.

I'm on the record here multiple times giving my opinion on Hurts, but I have to laugh at the irony. The fact is that you and many others gave Wentz an infinite leash, enough rope to hang himself and the full benefit of the doubt, but you'll be damned if you afford even half that degree of latitude to Hurts. Not to mention the red flags with Wentz were a lot more extreme than anything Hurts has shown so far. The bias is so glaringly obvious.

24 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I can accept that it was a dirty hit, but I also saw Wentz running around looking hesitant and leaving his body exposed with zero awareness of the oncoming player. It happened time and time again, and it finally got him on that play. He was never the kind of player to protect himself.

 

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.

I'm on the record here multiple times giving my opinion on Hurts, but I have to laugh at the irony. The fact is that you and many others gave Wentz an infinite leash, enough rope to hang himself and the full benefit of the doubt, but you'll be damned if you afford even half that degree of latitude to Hurts. Not to mention the red flags with Wentz were a lot more extreme than anything Hurts has shown so far. The bias is so glaringly obvious.

There is no irony. Completely different situations. Wentz did something. Hurts hasn't. You still have yet to show me anything Hurts done. You just keep ranting about Wentz