9 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

There is no irony. Completely different situations. Wentz did something. Hurts hasn't. You still have yet to show me anything Hurts done. You just keep ranting about Wentz

Again, feel free to go back through this thread and find my Hurts-related posts. I was trying to make a particular point here about how you're accusing people of doing the exact same thing that many did with Wentz.

Hurts has been up and down, but his stats aren't that bad for a guy with 19 total starts that you'd give up on him at this stage. He's definitely played some good games along the way, but he broke down midway through the season, which is unfortunate, but it happens with young QBS. More than anything, he's shown much more the leadership abilities and willingness to learn and listen to coaches than Wentz ever did. He doesn't seem to have one ounce of the sense of entitlement and stubborness that Wentz did and seems like a great guy in the lockeroom. Of course, Wentz's teammates all said the right things to the media at the time, but it wasn't long after that Super Bowl run that things started coming out about friction between Wentz and the coaching staff and in the lockerroom. I mostly take what the media says with a grain of salt, but there did seem to be some credence to it at the time, and looking back, those things all seem to have been true. There haven't been any similar rumblings about Hurts; he seems to have the right attitude and is a consummate professional that teammates gravitate towards. There's enough to at least speculate that he may be worth trying to work with a little longer.

5 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Again, feel free to go back through this thread and find my Hurts-related posts. I was trying to make a particular point here about how you're accusing people of doing the exact same thing that many did with Wentz.

Hurts has been up and down, but his stats aren't that bad for a guy with 19 total starts that you'd give up on him at this stage. He's definitely played some good games along the way, but he broke down midway through the season, which is unfortunate, but it happens with young QBS. More than anything, he's shown much more the leadership abilities and willingness to learn and listen to coaches than Wentz ever did. He doesn't seem to have one ounce of the sense of entitlement and stubborness that Wentz did and seems like a great guy in the lockeroom. Of course, Wentz's teammates all said the right things to the media at the time, but it wasn't long after that Super Bowl run that things started coming out about friction between Wentz and the coaching staff and in the lockerroom. I mostly take what the media says with a grain of salt, but there did seem to be some credence to it at the time, and looking back, those things all seem to have been true. There haven't been any similar rumblings about Hurts; he seems to have the right attitude and is a consummate professional that teammates gravitate towards. There's enough to at least speculate that he may be worth trying to work with a little longer.

Why are you still comparing him to Wentz? So essentially you can't give me anything about Hurts to lean on without mentioning Wentz

7 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Why are you still comparing him to Wentz? So essentially you can't give me anything about Hurts to lean on without mentioning Wentz

 

Because the comparison is useful! This whole chain started with my taking exception to your "mental gymnastics" comment and attempting to show that the guy making the claim also is famous for "mental gymnastics." You want to move the topic of conversation to Hurts instead of recognizing that you have been guilty of the same thing you accuse others of with Hurts. If you want to talk about numbers, I've referenced them here previously. You're free to go back and find them. I don't really feel like going back through the record right now getting into the weeds with numbers, but I did generally reference exactly why I think Hurts deserves another season of evaluation in the post you just quoted. If it helps to take all my comments regarding Hurts in that last post and just remove all mentions of Wentz, you'll basically have your answer. He's been up and down, but in terms of how he's performed statistically and how he's carried himself professionally, he's done enough to warrant a hard look in 2022. That's a hell of a lot more of an analysis than "He just sucks, end of story!"

5 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

He's been up and down, but in terms of how he's performed statistically and how he's carried himself professionally, he's done enough to warrant a hard look in 2022. That's a hell of a lot more of an analysis than "He just sucks, end of story!"

This is what I've been trying to get out of you this entire time and you're not even specific about what exactly he's done

I think Hurts is a backup QB. I'd say he'd be a great backup for a run first team like Ravens instead of us

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

he miraculously got them into the playoffs by playing well against a slew of bad teams down the stretch. Then he played an underwhelming game in the playoffs 

Sounds awfully familiar.  

 

I believe the difference is that 'other guy' had shown he had a ridiculously high ceiling... which he hit and then came crashing down from.  Hurts, on the other hand, never had that high a ceiling and hasn't even sniffed that level of play.  But, hey, we can pretend that being the 7 seed and getting wiped out in the NFC Wild Card game was a major accomplishment, while simultaneously downplaying a higher seed and lesser talent around him to get to the playoffs by the 'other guy'. 

 

Comparing Hurts to that other guy is irrelevant now.  We can only measure Hurts by what is needed from your QB in the league.  Hurts hasn't shown to be what you need for long term or playoff success.  Until he learns to play from the pocket... expect criticism.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

Hurts hasn't shown to be what you need for long term or playoff success. 

He hasn't and there's plenty of room for crticism. I know the old adage is better a year too soon than a year late mighty be patient to a fault, but at such a premium position where the success rate appears to highly volatile and unpredictable, I'd rather keep a QB prospect a year too long rather than cutting bait prematurely.}


And before you continue to limp me in as ai "Hurts Hugger." remember that you're talking to a guy who consistently went to bat for Foles from 2012-2016 and always said that. his intangibles are really what made him stand out from the rest, not mention his underrated atlethicism, Fotball IQ, and "art talent."

19 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

He hasn't and there's plenty of room for crticism. I know the old adage is better a year too soon than a year late mighty be patient to a fault, but at such a premium position where the success rate appears to highly volatile and unpredictable, I'd rather keep a QB prospect a year too long rather than cutting bait prematurely.}


And before you continue to limp me in as ai "Hurts Hugger." remember that you're talking to a guy who consistently went to bat for Foles from 2012-2016 and always said that. his intangibles are really what made him stand out from the rest, not mention his underrated atlethicism, Fotball IQ, and "art talent."

Who said they should cut bait on him?  They need to UPGRADE from him.  He's fine as a backup here.   I've got no issue with that.  

3 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Doesn't matter when it happened. He at least did something to give some type of hope during his stay here before the trade. And BS about him being bad in 2019 too. He was 27 TD to 7 INT. It was a dirty hit by Clowney that took him out that should have been a flag

You're the one that brought Wentz up. Not me. I only said that he had stats to give people something to lean on. He's a Commie now so I hope he plays like 2020 for his time with them

You still haven't given me anything about Hurts. You just went on a rant about Wentz instead. Which is strange when you apparently don't like him. So can you move on from Wentz and tell me what about Hurts is there to lean on?

You left out 19 fumbles.

8 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

🤦‍♂️.    Why not bring up a more apt comparison?    Find someone with a poor arm, that had bad vision.  Tyrod Taylor is the better comp.  Cunningham had a cannon on his right shoulder.  He was also significantly taller so he could see over the line.   BUT... Cunningham's best season came when he played WITHIN the pocket.  Which is what everyone has been saying about Hurts all along.  Until Hurts learns to play from the pocket, he's going to continue to be extremely limited.   

 

BTW, Randall was the first of the 'new breed' of QB in the NFL.  We've since had almost 30 years of data that shows that in the playoffs... that style is easily shut down by playoff defenses.   Is this about winning in the regular season or about winning in the playoffs?   

Randall was also throwing to Randy Moss and Cris Carter.

Just now, opa-opa said:

Randall was also throwing to Randy Moss and Cris Carter.

Very true.  And if they had Jalen Hurts throwing to them... Moss wouldn't have been OROY, and the legend of Moss wouldn't have grown.  

23 minutes ago, PhillyRockd said:

You left out 19 fumbles.

Both pff and nfl website say he fumbled 16 times. He also had backups on Oline but I'm sure that doesn't fit your narrative

Winston was the only QB in 2019 to throw for more than 5k and fumbled 12 times. See I can pick stats out too

6 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

2017 was practically ancient history by the time he quit on the team and forced a trade. He was pretty bad for stretches in 2019, too, or at least underwhelming, but he miraculously got them into the playoffs by playing well against a slew of bad teams down the stretch. Then he played an underwhelming game in the playoffs and got his clock cleaned by Clowney at least partially due to his signature lack of awareness.

By the time the 2021 offseason rolled around, he looked like a washed QB in addition to a crappy teammate and leader,  but you guys still defended him tooth and nail. You don't have to like Hurts, but if you're going to be in here pounding the table about people using "mental gymnastics" to defend a 23 year-old QB with 19 starts, it's hard to take you seriously when you eternally defended a 27 year-old QB with 68 starts coming off a historically bad season and with increasingly obvious signs that he lacked professionalism and leadership. 

I never defended Wentz after 2018.  I was probably the leading Wentz critic.  This isn’t Wentz vs Hurts.  Both aren’t nearly good enough.

13 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

And Howie has been setting this up since mid season? When he was checking him out before, we were looking at multiple top ten picks so doubt it was about getting people to leap ahead of us...probably was about replacing the QB who couldn't run the first scheme the coach ran. Think about that. Imagine being a young coach, first gig, and you've been dreaming up your own scheme your whole life. You see your receivers running open so you know your scheme works and then you see your quarterback clicking his heels with such poor footwork and then he under throws it by five yards. Then you have to change your scheme to something outdated in the 80s to survive. 

Thinking about it and I’m pretty certain every available quarterback who has moved locations this entire off-season (and some still yet to move) is a better option than little hands. He won’t be an Eagles for many reasons not to mention the fact there are numerous teams ahead of them right now who are quarterback needy. You all better start getting used to the fact come September Hurts will be under center. 

6 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

There is no irony. Completely different situations. Wentz did something. Hurts hasn't. You still have yet to show me anything Hurts done. You just keep ranting about Wentz

Only difference is you all worship Wentz like he’s a perfect god. In reality he is quite a flawed player, but your blindness to the truth fails to help you see it, and that’s why you foolishly thought he would be MVP for the Colts, and likely will ignorantly root for him to succeed against the Eagles this year. Shame. 

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Only difference is you all worship Wentz like he’s a perfect god. In reality he is quite a flawed player, but your blindness to the truth fails to help you see it, and that’s why you foolishly thought he would be MVP for the Colts, and likely will ignorantly root for him to succeed against the Eagles this year. Shame. 

Wentz sucks.  Unloading him for what we did was a steal.  Then, the Colts somehow unloading him for value was even more of a steal.

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Wentz sucks.  Unloading him for what we did was a steal.  Then, the Colts somehow unloading him for value was even more of a steal.

Glad you’re one of the few finally seeing the truth, but many did not see it then and have yet to have the stones to admit they were wrong and still haven’t like the guy who said he would be MVP last year. 

Wentz sucks. Hurts sucks. Howie hasn't ever gotten a franchise QB. Lurie has gotten one total in about 30 years

1 hour ago, pgcd3 said:

Wentz sucks. Hurts sucks. Howie hasn't ever gotten a franchise QB. Lurie has gotten one total in about 30 years

Wentz didn't suck before his injury..in fact he was plain amazing.

10 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Only difference is you all worship Wentz like he’s a perfect god. In reality he is quite a flawed player, but your blindness to the truth fails to help you see it, and that’s why you foolishly thought he would be MVP for the Colts, and likely will ignorantly root for him to succeed against the Eagles this year. Shame. 

Ever hear of a straw man.  You make them all the time.  Constantly.  

13 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Thinking about it and I’m pretty certain every available quarterback who has moved locations this entire off-season (and some still yet to move) is a better option than little hands. He won’t be an Eagles for many reasons not to mention the fact there are numerous teams ahead of them right now who are quarterback needy. You all better start getting used to the fact come September Hurts will be under center. 

I'm more than aware Hurts will start in 2022. I'm almost 90% certain he wont be the starter by week 12 because we will be out of contention. 

You know what's really funny, is I'm one of the few people who supported Foles through this fanbase's insistence that he was "trash." I told people thay they had to be patient and that Foles had to be in the right circumstances with the right pieces around him, that he just needed more experience, that he had the toughness, leadership abilities, and will to win that could make up for some athletic shortcomings. For the most part, it's the same people using the same inane, tired arguments against Hurts at this stage in his career just like they were with Foles: lack of arm talent, lack of mental acuity, comes up short in the playoffs, etc. You guys don't learn. You don't want them good, you want them flashy. You want style, not substance.

20 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Both pff and nfl website say he fumbled 16 times. He also had backups on Oline but I'm sure that doesn't fit your narrative

Winston was the only QB in 2019 to throw for more than 5k and fumbled 12 times. See I can pick stats out too

No problem but cherry picking isn't fair either.  Oops 

16 hours ago, opa-opa said:

Wentz didn't suck before his injury..in fact he was plain amazing.

2016 Wentz wasn’t plain amazing. He had a lot of ups and downs as a first year starter.

16 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

You know what's really funny, is I'm one of the few people who supported Foles through this fanbase's insistence that he was "trash." I told people thay they had to be patient and that Foles had to be in the right circumstances with the right pieces around him, that he just needed more experience, that he had the toughness, leadership abilities, and will to win that could make up for some athletic shortcomings. For the most part, it's the same people using the same inane, tired arguments against Hurts at this stage in his career just like they were with Foles: lack of arm talent, lack of mental acuity, comes up short in the playoffs, etc. You guys don't learn. You don't want them good, you want them flashy. You want style, not substance.

Nick Foles threw for 7 TDs against the Raiders in like his 8th start. 

 

16 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

You know what's really funny, is I'm one of the few people who supported Foles through this fanbase's insistence that he was "trash." I told people thay they had to be patient and that Foles had to be in the right circumstances with the right pieces around him, that he just needed more experience, that he had the toughness, leadership abilities, and will to win that could make up for some athletic shortcomings. For the most part, it's the same people using the same inane, tired arguments against Hurts at this stage in his career just like they were with Foles: lack of arm talent, lack of mental acuity, comes up short in the playoffs, etc. You guys don't learn. You don't want them good, you want them flashy. You want style, not substance.

I love Foles and am forever grateful for what he did for us in his time here. 

Having said that, he's been a career backup and has started 56 games over the course of his ten year career. Not exactly the strongest argument you can make.