1 hour ago, Vileborg said:

Why don't we start Minshew?

1. He wasn't drafted by Howie.

2. If we start Minshew then Howie isn't redeemed for using our second round pick on a QB.

3. If we start Minshew, then Howie wasn't the prophetic seer who knew Wentz was cooked and drafted his replacement to save us from years of mediocrity.

4. Did I mention eh wasn't drafted by Howie?

 

Start Minshew, let Hurts develop and fix his considerable amount of issues while sitting behind a journeyman in Minshew. Bring in a veteran washed up QB who can mentor Hurts and help him develop behind the scenes. Minshew isn't going to fix our problems. He's more of a gunslinger mentality but he has the potential to get hot and go on a run. Hurts atm does not.

Not fix, but definitely could mask them for awhile instead of making us one dimensional in critical situations 

2 hours ago, Vileborg said:

Why don't we start Minshew?

1. He wasn't drafted by Howie.

2. If we start Minshew then Howie isn't redeemed for using our second round pick on a QB.

3. If we start Minshew, then Howie wasn't the prophetic seer who knew Wentz was cooked and drafted his replacement to save us from years of mediocrity.

4. Did I mention eh wasn't drafted by Howie?

 

Start Minshew, let Hurts develop and fix his considerable amount of issues while sitting behind a journeyman in Minshew. Bring in a veteran washed up QB who can mentor Hurts and help him develop behind the scenes. Minshew isn't going to fix our problems. He's more of a gunslinger mentality but he has the potential to get hot and go on a run. Hurts atm does not.

You guys and your ridiculous theories.

It is simple - Sirianni was brought in to coach up Hurts because they believe in his abilities. They brought in Minshew to be the 3rd string QB because the price to get him was worth it. They traded Flacco because the Jets are dumb and Minshew was already on the roster and they felt comfortable with him being the backup.

Minshew was never brought here to start and unless Hurts is injured, he will never start here. He was brought in as a backup and an asset with hopes that they could flip him for a draft pick.

There is nothing more to it than that. 

5 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

You guys and your ridiculous theories.

It is simple - Sirianni was brought in to coach up Hurts because they believe in his abilities. They brought in Minshew to be the 3rd string QB because the price to get him was worth it. They traded Flacco because the Jets are dumb and Minshew was already on the roster and they felt comfortable with him being the backup.

Minshew was never brought here to start and unless Hurts is injured, he will never start here. He was brought in as a backup and an asset with hopes that they could flip him for a draft pick.

There is nothing more to it than that. 

False.  Sirianni was brought in when they still thought they could smooth things out with Wentz by firing Pederson, and brought in Reich's OC.  Sirianni wasn't brought in to work with Hurts.  Sirianni and his staff had never run an offense with a running QB.  Luck, Rivers and Brissett, and that includes going back to Sirianni's days with the Chargers.  Brian Johnson was hired a week after Sirianni, likely after it was clear Wentz wasn't interested in returning.

 

And according to the Eagles' own words... Hurts was never brought in to start either, unless Wentz was injured.  He was brought in as a backup and as a 'gadget player', and that they could flip him for a draft pick in the future as well.  "QB Factory", IIRC.

14 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

False.  Sirianni was brought in when they still thought they could smooth things out with Wentz by firing Pederson, and brought in Reich's OC.  Sirianni wasn't brought in to work with Hurts.  Sirianni and his staff had never run an offense with a running QB.  Luck, Rivers and Brissett, and that includes going back to Sirianni's days with the Chargers.  Brian Johnson was hired a week after Sirianni, likely after it was clear Wentz wasn't interested in returning.

 

And according to the Eagles' own words... Hurts was never brought in to start either, unless Wentz was injured.  He was brought in as a backup and as a 'gadget player', and that they could flip him for a draft pick in the future as well.  "QB Factory", IIRC.

The second part is correct, but the first part is revisionist.

He was asked in his first press conference if he was brought in to fix Wentz, if Wentz was his QB, and about the strained relationship between Wentz and the organization. Never once did he say or lean towards saying that he took the job because of Wentz or even offered up a softball to make Wentz feel special. He consistently said that the organization had two top-notch QBs, that if both were still on the roster there would be a competition between the two, and that he did not have a system, that his system would be catered around his players. 

He was brought in to coach either Hurts or Wentz - considering how fractured the relationship was with Wentz and that he was shipped out on February 18th, only a couple of weeks after Siri was hired, it would be ludicrous to think that he did not know beforehand. 

2 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

The second part is correct, but the first part is revisionist.

He was asked in his first press conference if he was brought in to fix Wentz, if Wentz was his QB, and about the strained relationship between Wentz and the organization. Never once did he say or lean towards saying that he took the job because of Wentz or even offered up a softball to make Wentz feel special. He consistently said that the organization had two top-notch QBs, that if both were still on the roster there would be a competition between the two, and that he did not have a system, that his system would be catered around his players. 

He was brought in to coach either Hurts or Wentz - considering how fractured the relationship was with Wentz and that he was shipped out on February 18th, only a couple of weeks after Siri was hired, it would be ludicrous to think that he did not know beforehand. 

No revisionist.  He had already talked to Wentz before that press conference and didn't want to paint himself into a corner... so he sidestepped the question.  And he talked up both QBs to keep the door open for a return.

Yeah... Sirianni had such a long history of RPOs and Read Options, he was definitely brought in to work with Hurts... and we saw how well the offense he installed early on worked with Hurts, so much so that he had to revamp the entire thing midseason.

Let’s just back it up for a second.  First of all, the Eagles aren’t exactly the gold standard in terms of what they see in a qb or HC…so regardless of what they wanted from Wentz/Hurts, it doesn’t make that opinion correct.

But from the top…the Eagles never even would have fired Doug if he had not pushed back and tried to cut the puppet strings.  Lurie, Doug, and Howie had a damn PC together.   Plan A wasn’t even to fire Doug in the first place.

Siriani was hired after a search to find a coach they could control. 
 

Hurts was drafted, likely at the request of Lurie, who still publicly bemoans missing Russell Wilson.  They saw Wilson in Hurts.  They also figured they could revolutionize nfl offenses with gadget 2 qb plays and rotating the position with a qb that was a rb when moving upfield.  They also needed a backup.  They also worried about Wentz’ durability.  They also would be happy to flip someone for a profit.  Put it all together and you get the shocking selection of Hurts in round 2.
 

Even after the disastrous 2020 season, it is known the Eagles tried to meet with Wentz and keep him on board as the 2021 starter.  He wanted out.  It’s also known they tried to trade up for Zach Wilson.

So Hurts never earned the job in 2021…he got it because of a complete lack of options.  

4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No revisionist.  He had already talked to Wentz before that press conference and didn't want to paint himself into a corner... so he sidestepped the question.  And he talked up both QBs to keep the door open for a return.

Yeah... Sirianni had such a long history of RPOs and Read Options, he was definitely brought in to work with Hurts... and we saw how well the offense he installed early on worked with Hurts, so much so that he had to revamp the entire thing midseason.

He came in with an open mind and an open scheme. He has stated that from day one - that he would scheme his offense to his players even if he had to learn new things. That was something that Doug did not do.

He knew the situation he was coming into. He knew that he had two QBs to deal with and that he would need to go with one of them. That there was a chance one of them maybe gone by the time the season started. He talked to both of them before that first press conference.

To say he came into this thinking that it was Wentz all the way is nonsense.

Lurie seems to love hiring based off of relationships which is why he hired Siri. He hired Andy Reid who was on the same staff as Ray Rhodes in GB. He hired Doug because of Andy. He hired Siri because of Frank Reich.

The only HC he did not hired based off of some relationships that he had with a former coach was Chip and that was a disaster.

3 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

He came in with an open mind and an open scheme. He has stated that from day one - that he would scheme his offense to his players even if he had to learn new things. That was something that Doug did not do.

He knew the situation he was coming into. He knew that he had two QBs to deal with and that he would need to go with one of them. That there was a chance one of them maybe gone by the time the season started. He talked to both of them before that first press conference.

To say he came into this thinking that it was Wentz all the way is nonsense.

Lurie seems to love retreads which is why he hired Siri. He hired Andy Reid who was on the same staff as Ray Rhodes in GB. He hired Doug because of Andy. He hired Siri because of Frank Reich.

The only HC he did not hired based off of some relationships that he had with a former coach was Chip and that was a disaster.

Not sure you are using that word correctly.  He seems to prefer guys connected to people he knows... that doesn't mean retreads.  Retreads are guys that have done it before, got canned, at least once... and get another chance.   Lurie hires guys that are new to the job, but connected.  That's not a retread.

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not sure you are using that word correctly.  He seems to prefer guys connected to people he knows... that doesn't mean retreads.  Retreads are guys that have done it before, got canned, at least once... and get another chance.   Lurie hires guys that are new to the job, but connected.  That's not a retread.

Yeah it was the wrong word.  😕 

I had changed it but I was not fast enough.

11 hours ago, pallidrone said:

The second part is correct, but the first part is revisionist.

He was asked in his first press conference if he was brought in to fix Wentz, if Wentz was his QB, and about the strained relationship between Wentz and the organization. Never once did he say or lean towards saying that he took the job because of Wentz or even offered up a softball to make Wentz feel special. He consistently said that the organization had two top-notch QBs, that if both were still on the roster there would be a competition between the two, and that he did not have a system, that his system would be catered around his players. 

He was brought in to coach either Hurts or Wentz - considering how fractured the relationship was with Wentz and that he was shipped out on February 18th, only a couple of weeks after Siri was hired, it would be ludicrous to think that he did not know beforehand. 

Maybe that’s what happened though I don’t think you can take anything they said as proof for it. They needed to say this anyways because it’s good for the team. You want your players to be worth as much as possible. And while I think we all knew Wentz was gone no matter what they wanted to keep appearances like all teams. Well unless you are the Colts and really, really hate your QB after a year with him.

So did Siriani know beforehand? Likely. Feels like at this point Wentz left scorched earth here and there was no way to mend this relationship.

 

 

50 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

 

Hopefully he blesses you with some NFL arm talent.

On 4/12/2022 at 8:35 AM, Shalodeep said:

Wentz had 10-12 good to great games last year.... hurts had 2...maybe??? Hate to tell you this but we have the third best QB in a weak division ATM. As much as everyone rags on the guy, he gets 25+ tds and less than 10 ints a year. It's not as good as he was expected to be, but those numbers keep you starting for a decade 

 

hurts had 26 td's 9 interceptions, 8 if you want to discount that fluke goddert off the foot drop int.  

19 minutes ago, McMahonHeadband said:

 

hurts had 26 td's 9 interceptions, 8 if you want to discount that fluke goddert off the foot drop int.  

So we are adding rushing TDS and discounting certain ints. Can I deduct touchdowns that were accumulated after the game was out of hand?

3 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

So we are adding rushing TDS and discounting certain ints. Can I deduct touchdowns that were accumulated after the game was out of hand?

You're right.  But in your opinion what is the major difference between passing td's and rushing td's?

2 minutes ago, McMahonHeadband said:

You're right.  But in your opinion what is the major difference between passing td's and rushing td's?

Sustainability

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Sustainability

can you elaborate?  this is the first time i am hearing this. 

2 minutes ago, McMahonHeadband said:

can you elaborate?  this is the first time i am hearing this. 

Long term, a QB who runs in 10 touchdowns a year will be schemed out of the league, or leave on a stretcher. If you need your QB to run that many touchdowns, you either don't have the right quarterback, or the wrong QB coach in the building to break bad habits. A QB can throw 30tds for 10+ years, but only one QB who has ever ran for more than 10+ touchdowns multiple times in their career and that is Cam Newton. I have said multiple times we have Cam Newton lite as a qb because their flaws are damn near identical, but their arms are not. 

Just now, Shalodeep said:

Long term, a QB who runs in 10 touchdowns a year will be schemed out of the league, or leave on a stretcher. If you need your QB to run that many touchdowns, you either don't have the right quarterback, or the wrong QB coach in the building to break bad habits. A QB can throw 30tds for 10+ years, but only one QB who has ever ran for more than 10+ touchdowns multiple times in their career and that is Cam Newton. I have said multiple times we have Cam Newton lite as a qb because their flaws are damn near identical, but their arms are not. 

thats a good point.  SO would you say 10- 20 percent in variability per year with running td's?

4 minutes ago, McMahonHeadband said:

thats a good point.  SO would you say 10- 20 percent in variability per year with running td's?

Not sure what you are asking, but I think I get it. I would say if hurts threw 25 tds and ran for 5tds, people wouldn't talk negatively about his legs. The fact he threw 16 and ran 10 is a problem... especially when 4 of those 16 were thrown when the game was already over. 

Just now, Shalodeep said:

Not sure what you are asking, but I think I get it. I would say if hurts threw 25 tds and ran for 5tds, people wouldn't talk negatively about his legs. The fact he threw 16 and ran 10 is a problem... especially when 4 of those 16 were thrown when the game was already over. 

so just a quick heads up, all td's have a high degree of variability from year to year.    There has only been 1 qb with 10 season of 30 td passes and that is brees.   ALso looking back at historical data isn't helpful because this concept of a dual threat qb is a new thing in the nfl.  

 

The reality is that there is no difference between a running td and a throwing td.  The problem is that many qb stats like qb rating doesn't include a qb's running stats.  Also we were the best running team in football ( thanks in large part to hurts) so of course we are going to have less passing td's.   But that doesn't matter, all that matters is that the ball passes through the endzone, if that happens from a pass or run does not matter. Having a dual threat qb in the red zone makes us more dangerous. 

8 minutes ago, McMahonHeadband said:

so just a quick heads up, all td's have a high degree of variability from year to year.    There has only been 1 qb with 10 season of 30 td passes and that is brees.   ALso looking back at historical data isn't helpful because this concept of a dual threat qb is a new thing in the nfl.  

 

The reality is that there is no difference between a running td and a throwing td.  The problem is that many qb stats like qb rating doesn't include a qb's running stats.  Also we were the best running team in football ( thanks in large part to hurts) so of course we are going to have less passing td's.   But that doesn't matter, all that matters is that the ball passes through the endzone, if that happens from a pass or run does not matter. Having a dual threat qb in the red zone makes us more dangerous. 

Bahahahaha so let me get this straight, you found literally one point about the 30+ throwing touchdowns, took it out of context, and tried to make an argument through that bahahahahaha dual threats aren't new. They have existed for a long time. Hell, this team has had a history of them going back to Cunningham, mcnabb, Vick, and now Hurts. When did Wentz get hurt? When he tried the running in for a touchdown against the Rams. It has literally wrecked a young career. Come on now. You gotta be better at debating or proving your point than this. Hell, Hurts got hurt last year...you know, his first year starting. Running QBs don't work. Mobility helps, but shouldn't be relied on and that's what Hurts relies on more than any other ability at this point in his career. You had me fooled for a minute. Thought you were actually trying to discuss football, but of course it's about Hurts so I should of known better. 

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Bahahahaha so let me get this straight, you found literally one point about the 30+ throwing touchdowns, took it out of context, and tried to make an argument through that bahahahahaha dual threats aren't new. They have existed for a long time. Hell, this team has had a history of them going back to Cunningham, mcnabb, Vick, and now Hurts. When did Wentz get hurt? When he tried the running in for a touchdown against the Rams. It has literally wrecked a young career. Come on now. You gotta be better at debating or proving your point than this 

Does it help typing out your laugh? do you type out all your emotions?  There is a huge difference between cunningham, mcnabb, and vick being mobile and having the ability to scramble vs planned runs.  The wentz injury was one of the flukiest injuries of all time.  If you're worried about injuries don't play football.     

 

I asked you point blank why you thought running td's shouldn't be relied upon and you said sustainability.   You provided no proof of that and I turned your point against you and you said i take it out of context?  Td's have a high degree of variability and it doesn't matter where they come from as long as you get them.  Jalen hurts could have 50 1 yard td runs next year and pass for 0 and win the mvp.   You are very old fashion and narrow minded in what a qb can be.  

11 minutes ago, McMahonHeadband said:

Does it help typing out your laugh? do you type out all your emotions?  There is a huge difference between cunningham, mcnabb, and vick being mobile and having the ability to scramble vs planned runs.  The wentz injury was one of the flukiest injuries of all time.  If you're worried about injuries don't play football.     

 

I asked you point blank why you thought running td's shouldn't be relied upon and you said sustainability.   You provided no proof of that and I turned your point against you and you said i take it out of context?  Td's have a high degree of variability and it doesn't matter where they come from as long as you get them.  Jalen hurts could have 50 1 yard td runs next year and pass for 0 and win the mvp.   You are very old fashion and narrow minded in what a qb can be.  

No, I've just been a fan of this sport forever and know that running QBs have never worked going back to the beginning of the league. Dual threat doesn't mean what you think it means. Steve young was a duel threat, never needed 10 rushing touchdowns to win MVP. The year cam was an actual dual threat, he THREW for 35tds and running was an addition to his game, not the basis of it. Also, cam had 3 total seasons of 10+ rushing touchdowns. It's literally not sustainable. Rushing QBs have patches in their careers that they miss due to the abuse they can't handle. Cam is a mountain compared to Hurts and still missed time. You gotta try harder than this to defend this guy, cause right now your argument wouldn't work in the college level, let alone the NFL