14 minutes ago, Bamabird said:

Since we a day away from the draft I thought I would check in and see what y'all were talking about, I also was looking around on the Falcons board.

There is a thread on Falcons board about the need to get a running QB in order to win in the NFL now. I come here and y'all are saying basically the opposite thing. Falcon fans  didn't like the way Ryan was not a running QB but very accurate with the ball, Falcon fans loved Vick running around and were okay with him not be able to throw the ball accurately, y'all don't like having a running QB in Hurts and the way he runs all  around and the fact he is not throwing the ball accurately. Isn't it just a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence?

It will always be up for debate.

I think the reason Falcons fans want another Vick is because of how exciting it was to watch him play. The fact that the team also had some success while he was there probably adds to the nostalgia factor.  I think the Falcons team basically falling apart after the SB loss probably left a bad taste in fans mouth regarding Ryan too.  

21 minutes ago, MF POON said:

LOL thank you!

So finding the one possible example (which is still the longest of reaches) to prove a point that 0% so far means there still is a chance?

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

And neither were run first QB's like Hurts.

I'm not understanding why McNair keeps getting brought up? He wasn't really much of a runner and an ok  passer. Although later in his career he got a little better st passing. 

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

....Steve McNair for his time period was an average passer, definitely not bad so no idea where you got that from. Only had two seasons over 450 yards rushing. Man could run, but wasn't his only weapon.  Second.... Russell threw more touchdowns, less interceptions, and higher completion percentage, and that was with lynch getting 1300 yards and 13 touchdowns and the legion of boom handing the ball back over and over again. You can stop trying now. 

 

The majority of his career he didn't even run over 200 yards in a season. 

18 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

The majority of his career he didn't even run over 200 yards in a season. 

6 years above 300 yards to be fair. The running is definitely exaggerated, but that's because it wasn't as common. Seems to be common place for the winning QB to be a pocket passer ....figure that out 

This conversation went off the rails a bit.   A QB that can run is very different from a QB that has to run.  Hurts' passing is the weakest part of his game, and he needs to be able to run to be effective.  

2 hours ago, jsb235 said:

This ignores the fact that 95+ percent of the qbs are "Marino" style. Joe Flacco winning a Super Bowl and Steve McNair losing one has nothing to do with their style. It's just simple math.

Are they? At one time that may have been true. I'm not sure it is any longer. Colleges turn out running quarterbacks because a running quarterback that doesn't have to think much is easier to get up to speed. A superior athlete playing quarterback is going to have better success in College than he is in the NFL where there are more likely to be superior athletes (and better coaches) on the other side too.

But McNair got to the Super Bowl as a bad passer and a good runner. Just like Kaepernick and Russell Wilson (who was a worse passer than Hurts the year he went) did.

The fact that there are so few players like them doesn't mean they can't win. It's like saying a team with an Australian rugby player at left tackle can't win a Super Bowl because no one can name a team that won a Super Bowl with an Australian rugby player at left tackle.

I think your sample size there trying to prove or disprove that statement is going to be problematic.

 

 

    

 

12 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

6 years above 300 yards to be fair. The running is definitely exaggerated, but that's because it wasn't as common. Seems to be common place for the winning QB to be a pocket passer ....figure that out 

6 to 5 still like you said he didn't run as much as people think. They didn't call him ground McNair

5 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

The running is definitely exaggerated

Okay, if McNair isn't a great example of a running qb please list 10 better examples.

7 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

This conversation went off the rails a bit.   A QB that can run is very different from a QB that has to run.  Hurts' passing is the weakest part of his game, and he needs to be able to run to be effective.  

I believe that is a common trait of dual threat QBs while they adjust to the NFL. I think people are also going a bit overboard on the passing critique with Hurts. He's certainly not one of the NFL's best at this time. The hope, like with all players, is that he continues to improve. But he isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. Cunningham had to improve as a passer. McNabb had to improve as a passer. Josh Allen had to improve as a passer. What those 3 players had in common was that early in their careers, their running ability was a crutch they relied upon to make up for their deficiencies as a passer. Hurts is in the same situation. He needs to improve several areas of his passing game.

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I believe that is a common trait of dual threat QBs while they adjust to the NFL. I think people are also going a bit overboard on the passing critique with Hurts. He's certainly not one of the NFL's best at this time. The hope, like with all players, is that he continues to improve. But he isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. Cunningham had to improve as a passer. McNabb had to improve as a passer. Josh Allen had to improve as a passer. What those 3 players had in common was that early in their careers, their running ability was a crutch they relied upon to make up for their deficiencies as a passer. Hurts is in the same situation. He needs to improve several areas of his passing game.

Imagine we draft a guy like Jameson Williams. Plus Smith, Goedert, Watkins..

And Hurts with his second full season in Sirianis second season.. I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes a huge leap forward.

I wonder though if Sanders will hold up. He enters a prove it year and I think he is expected to run with it this season. With our line we won’t be terrible no matter what but if he could stay healthy for a season on top of his game that could change things for us. Yet even if he did, would you give him a contract after this season?

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I believe that is a common trait of dual threat QBs while they adjust to the NFL. I think people are also going a bit overboard on the passing critique with Hurts. He's certainly not one of the NFL's best at this time. The hope, like with all players, is that he continues to improve. But he isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. Cunningham had to improve as a passer. McNabb had to improve as a passer. Josh Allen had to improve as a passer. What those 3 players had in common was that early in their careers, their running ability was a crutch they relied upon to make up for their deficiencies as a passer. Hurts is in the same situation. He needs to improve several areas of his passing game.

Those 3 also had much better arms and better vision, even as rookies.  Hurts is in a worse situation.  There's a reason Hurts went in Round 2, and McNabb went 2 overall while Allen went 7.  Cunningham also went Round 2, but for a different reason than Hurts.

15 hours ago, jsb235 said:

This ignores the fact that 95+ percent of the qbs are "Marino" style. Joe Flacco winning a Super Bowl and Steve McNair losing one has nothing to do with their style. It's just simple math.

But McNair got to the Super Bowl as a bad passer and a good runner. Just like Kaepernick and Russell Wilson (who was a worse passer than Hurts the year he went) did.

The fact that there are so few players like them doesn't mean they can't win. It's like saying a team with an Australian rugby player at left tackle can't win a Super Bowl because no one can name a team that won a Super Bowl with an Australian rugby player at left tackle.

 

    

Mailata is unique because he was a rugby player, not because he’s a bad left tackle.

Hurts is unique because he’s a bad passer.

Theres a difference.

8 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Okay, if McNair isn't a great example of a running qb please list 10 better examples.

So you want me to do your homework to debate me? Bahahahahaha

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Those 3 also had much better arms and better vision, even as rookies.  Hurts is in a worse situation.  There's a reason Hurts went in Round 2, and McNabb went 2 overall while Allen went 7.  Cunningham also went Round 2, but for a different reason than Hurts.

Cunningham had better vision as a rookie? McNabb had better vision as a rookie? That is revisionist history.

I really don't care where players were drafted. Why is that even applicable. McNabb went #2. There's a reason why Tim Couch went #1, and Akili Smith #3. The reason is because that's where their teams drafted them. Every year since at least 1999 QBs have been overrated by teams hoping to find that franchise guy and they have been climbing up draft boards in the days leading to the draft for little other reason. 

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

Cunningham had better vision as a rookie? McNabb had better vision as a rookie? That is revisionist history.

I really don't care where players were drafted. Why is that even applicable. McNabb went #2. There's a reason why Tim Couch went #1, and Akili Smith #3. The reason is because that's where their teams drafted them. Every year since at least 1999 QBs have been overrated by teams hoping to find that franchise guy and they have been climbing up draft boards in the days leading to the draft for little other reason. 

It is applicable because it illustrates what level of prospect they were viewed as.  Hurts was viewed as a late 2nd/early 3rd round QB who was likely a backup QB.  I've seen nothing to indicate that he is capable of more than being a top level backup.  

 

Cunningham never did a pirouette in a perfectly clean pocket, nor did McNabb.  Hurts doesn't see well.  He doesn't see down the field, he doesn't see the rush so he panics.   McNabb and Cunningham also used more of the field than Hurts.  Hurts basically looks to his right and that's about it.  If he's throwing to his left, it's almost always behind the LOS or right at it.  

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Cunningham never did a pirouette in a perfectly clean pocket, nor did McNabb. 

Please ... 

18 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Cunningham never did a pirouette in a perfectly clean pocket

It took me watching 30 seconds of this video to see Cunningham doing exactly what you said he never did.

(43) Randall Cunningham Eagles Highlights - Ultimate Weapon - YouTube 

After watching video Cunningham scramble, I am inspired.

Jalen Hurts for MVP this year.

Super Bowl !!

It's gonna be a bummer drafting at the #32 position in 2023, but I'll take it.

23 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

After watching video Cunningham scramble, I am inspired.

Jalen Hurts for MVP this year.

Super Bowl !!

It's gonna be a bummer drafting at the #32 position in 2023, but I'll take it.

I guess your point is that there is a qb in this draft who could win us a Super Bowl?

Well don't keep your secret to yourself. Who is it? 

6 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I guess your point is that there is a qb in this draft who could win us a Super Bowl?

Well don't keep your secret to yourself. Who is it? 

SB winning QB? Eagles could trade for Nick Foles. Under last year of contract with Bears for $4 mil.

18 hours ago, MF POON said:

I think the reason Falcons fans want another Vick is because of how exciting it was to watch him play. The fact that the team also had some success while he was there probably adds to the nostalgia factor.  I think the Falcons team basically falling apart after the SB loss probably left a bad taste in fans mouth regarding Ryan too.  

Actually the bad taste for Ryan came the day after the draft for many Falcon fans. First there were a ton of fans that wanted to draft Dorsey rather than Ryan, I can say the Falcons got that 100% correct.

Secondly, there was a huge debate, not only in Atlanta, but across the NFL, about dog fighting. There were people who felt it just wasn't a big deal, certainly not big enough to lose your career and go to jail. I understand that some people are raised in a environment  that dog fighting is acceptable, just like C fighting. There are people that look at a dog as "just a dog", while there are others, like me, that view them as something much more. So with cultural battle going on any new QB coming into Atlanta was going to get a certain amount of push back and Matt got a lot with the segment of the population that defended Vicks dog fighting.

And then you throw in Vicks exciting plays and Ryan's steady plays and it was a disaster from the get go. 

313 pages of circular arguments, hot damn, the board admins should contact the Guiness Records people or Ripleys Believe it or not.

You'd get more posters into the community, if only to see how many different discussions DUM, Godfather and Swoop can hammer the line '...just a shame Hurts is the QB' into.

 

18 hours ago, MF POON said:

I think the reason Falcons fans want another Vick is because of how exciting it was to watch him play. The fact that the team also had some success while he was there probably adds to the nostalgia factor.  I think the Falcons team basically falling apart after the SB loss probably left a bad taste in fans mouth regarding Ryan too.  

There's no question that Vick was fun to watch, he absolutely was. Well, until JJ and the 2004 Eagles defense came along and spoiled the fun. Let's take a look at the Falcon's trophy case during the Vick years.

 

Oh

15 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

313 pages of circular arguments, hot damn, the board admins should contact the Guiness Records people or Ripleys Believe it or not.

You'd get more posters into the community, if only to see how many different discussions DUM, Godfather and Swoop can hammer the line '...just a shame Hurts is the QB' into.

 

Breaking news.

Jalen Hurts is not good.