9 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Check their rushes per game... and look at the fact that Hurts is DOUBLE that value.  And NONE of the names you mentioned had designed runs as part of the week to week gameplan like the Eagles do with Hurts... not counting Buddy Ryan's ridiculous plan of 'Randall will make 3 big plays a game'.  

And there's a difference between running QB and a scrambler.  Tarkenton was the league's all-time leading passer for a generation.  And Cunningham's game changed dramatically from 1995 on as they tried to make him a passer, not an athlete.  Vick was rebuilt here with Reid after prison and his game changed a lot too, with the exception of the Chip error.

You are still comparing apples to oranges.  Hurts had 139 rushes last year alone.  That means he'll top out all these other players in rush attempts by year 6.  HALF the number or less than half of all the guys you mentioned.   Of those you mention, only Vick ever topped 100 rushes in a season.  And what did we see from Vick... limited success, because he just wasn't a passer.  And even he didn't average 10 rushes per game.

 

And yes, you found some RBs that had big workloads.  You pretty much cherry picked Hall of Fame RBs.  The difference between today and the past is that teams don't put money into running backs because of the salary cap and the recognition that they just can't match the value of their contract when they hit their 2nd contract.  A RB today has about a 4 year shelf life, then bounces around as a journeyman.  Even back in the day, Gale Sayers, Earl Campbell and others had about 4 years of effectiveness before they fizzled out.  That's how RB works in the NFL.  But the reason that the teams don't put money into them, is because their production drops off dramatically, due to durability.  I don't see how you can argue any other reason.

I'm only exposing your slippery slope that says a running QB can't have a long career. You have no idea how long anybody's career that hasn't finished yet will be. Yes, like any player, they can get hurt. That's a risk for everybody. Luke Kuechly was a perennial All Pro LB whose career was shortened due to concussions. That doesn't mean his experience will be that of other perennial All Pro LBs. It was unique to him. 

Why is it that when you observe the careers of players like McNabb, Vick, and Cunningham, you don't think Hurts' game might evolve the same way as he improves as a passer like they all did over time? You act like he will average 9-10 carries per game for the length of his career. Heck ... I expect him to average 2 less rushes per game in 2022 than he averaged in 2021 and increase his passing attempts as well. I'll also be surprised if his completion percentage doesn't end up above 65%. He's a young, improving player and you guys still expect him to be the 2021 Hurts. 

3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I'm only exposing your slippery slope that says a running QB can't have a long career. You have no idea how long anybody's career that hasn't finished yet will be. Yes, like any player, they can get hurt. That's a risk for everybody. Luke Kuechly was a perennial All Pro LB whose career was shortened due to concussions. That doesn't mean his experience will be that of other perennial All Pro LBs. It was unique to him. 

Why is it that when you observe the careers of players like McNabb, Vick, and Cunningham, you don't think Hurts' game might evolve the same way as he improves as a passer like they all did over time? You act like he will average 9-10 carries per game for the length of his career. Heck ... I expect him to average 2 less rushes per game in 2022 than he averaged in 2021 and increase his passing attempts as well. I'll also be surprised if his completion percentage doesn't end up above 65%. He's a young, improving player and you guys still expect him to be the 2021 Hurts. 

A Qb that runs as much as Hurts... does.   None of the QBs you mentioned ever averaged 10 carries per game.   Vick is the only one that topped 100 carries in a season.  

Why don't I think that Hurts' career won't evolve like McNabb, Vick and Cunningham?   Simple... McNabb was brought in by a coach that worked every day to make him effective from the pocket.   The HC watered down the offense, but didn't center it around his running.  On the contrary, he tailored it around screen passes and dump offs to the TE.  Vick... he was headed down the tubes, and then went to prison.  When he returned, he started to become a student of the game, and was coached by that same guy that worked to stop McNabb from being a running QB.   Cunningham?  Same story.  When Gruden came, he tried to make him a pocket passer in the WCO.  And none of these QBs had a coach that said, I want you to run the ball as a major part of the offense (except for the stupidity of the college coach, who didn't understand the NFL).   Hurts had 16 carries against the Saints... it was the reason that they won that game, because he passed like garbage that game.

 

We'll see how that running total breaks out this year.  But, the OC and HC have talked about how they like his running.  He has bragged himself about how he's the best at being 'freaky' with the football.  McNabb bristled at the running QB moniker.   Cunningham always considered himself a scrambler more than a runner, and even as a young QB kept his eyes down the field more than Hurts when out of the pocket.   I guess the reason I don't see Hurts as being able to change is because there's not much pressure on him from his coaches, or himself to change the way he plays.  They seem to be quite content with his penchant to run when its not necessary.  And... it seems the coaches don't think he needs more reps because they constantly keep him off the field when they have a chance to get him more work.  Seems they are content.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

A Qb that runs as much as Hurts... does.   None of the QBs you mentioned ever averaged 10 carries per game.   Vick is the only one that topped 100 carries in a season.  

Why don't I think that Hurts' career won't evolve like McNabb, Vick and Cunningham?   Simple... McNabb was brought in by a coach that worked every day to make him effective from the pocket.   The HC watered down the offense, but didn't center it around his running.  On the contrary, he tailored it around screen passes and dump offs to the TE.  Vick... he was headed down the tubes, and then went to prison.  When he returned, he started to become a student of the game, and was coached by that same guy that worked to stop McNabb from being a running QB.   Cunningham?  Same story.  When Gruden came, he tried to make him a pocket passer in the WCO.  And none of these QBs had a coach that said, I want you to run the ball as a major part of the offense (except for the stupidity of the college coach, who didn't understand the NFL).   Hurts had 16 carries against the Saints... it was the reason that they won that game, because he passed like garbage that game.

 

We'll see how that running total breaks out this year.  But, the OC and HC have talked about how they like his running.  He has bragged himself about how he's the best at being 'freaky' with the football.  McNabb bristled at the running QB moniker.   Cunningham always considered himself a scrambler more than a runner, and even as a young QB kept his eyes down the field more than Hurts when out of the pocket.   I guess the reason I don't see Hurts as being able to change is because there's not much pressure on him from his coaches, or himself to change the way he plays.  They seem to be quite content with his penchant to run when its not necessary.  And... it seems the coaches don't think he needs more reps because they constantly keep him off the field when they have a chance to get him more work.  Seems they are content.

lol

6 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

lol

I know.  Sounds funny to say, right?   And yet, a guy that we keep being told is young, has room to grow, is a hard worker, blah blah blah... 

And yet he's taken a total of about 12 snaps in the preseason the last two seasons combined.  2 drives.  But, he needs to be given more time because he's not a finished product.   But, this coaching staff sure seems to be treating him like he is.   For comparison purposes... Tom Brady played 10 snaps in Preseason Week 3... that last preseason game, the 45 year old, 7 time champion, 5 time MVP... played almost as many snaps in one preseason game as Jalen Hurts has in the last two seasons.  But, yeah... I'm sure he'll have a huge leap while being protected by his coaches from live hitting.

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I know.  Sounds funny to say, right?   And yet, a guy that we keep being told is young, has room to grow, is a hard worker, blah blah blah... 

And yet he's taken a total of about 12 snaps in the preseason the last two seasons combined.  2 drives.  But, he needs to be given more time because he's not a finished product.   But, this coaching staff sure seems to be treating him like he is.   For comparison purposes... Tom Brady played 10 snaps in Preseason Week 3... that last preseason game, the 45 year old, 7 time champion, 5 time MVP... played almost as many snaps in one preseason game as Jalen Hurts has in the last two seasons.  But, yeah... I'm sure he'll have a huge leap while being protected by his coaches from live hitting.

I haven't exactly been quiet about my criticism of how the Eagles handle preseason games and even TC. But they aren't just sitting out 1 guy, either.  Brady, unlike Hurts, missed 2 weeks of TC before that final preseason game. There might have been a related reason for him playing. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

I haven't exactly been quiet about my criticism of how the Eagles handle preseason games and even TC. But they aren't just sitting out 1 guy, either.  Brady, unlike Hurts, missed 2 weeks of TC before that final preseason game. There might have been a related reason for him playing. 

The 2 biggest threats to Hurts as a starting QB are:

1) Jalen Hurts

2) Carson Strong

10 hours ago, CouchKing said:

The 2 biggest threats to Hurts as a starting QB are:

1) Jalen Hurts

2) Carson Strong

Lol - Strong is only a threat to anyone with their back turned on an adjacent practice field.

It's time to just let this play out. We've known for awhile that Howie is going with Running Man in his quest for Russell Wilson II.  The FO loaded the team up to help him out.  It's all on him now.

19 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

It's time to just let this play out. We've known for awhile that Howie is going with Running Man in his quest for Russell Wilson II.  The FO loaded the team up to help him out.  It's all on him now.

Yep - he has been given the weapons and time. Needs to take another step up. If not whoever we get in 2023 will be coming into a really good situation.

On 8/31/2022 at 7:49 AM, ManchesterEagle said:

Yep - he has been given the weapons and time. Needs to take another step up. If not whoever we get in 2023 will be coming into a really good situation.

Any upset starter will be begging to get traded here and we also have the capital to get any QB we want. Great situation to be in.

On 8/31/2022 at 6:22 AM, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

It's time to just let this play out. We've known for awhile that Howie is going with Running Man in his quest for Russell Wilson II.  The FO loaded the team up to help him out.  It's all on him now.

Some people have tried to make the Josh Allen comp for Hurts, but I’ve always thought Russell Wilson was the more similar comparison. It took Russ 4 years to break the 4,000 yard passing threshold. Hurts is a better runner, but I think he needs to continue the passing improvement and break the 4K barrier in year 3 to keep his job.

 

15 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

Some people have tried to make the Josh Allen comp for Hurts, but I’ve always thought Russell Wilson was the more similar comparison. It took Russ 4 years to break the 4,000 yard passing threshold. Hurts is a better runner, but I think he needs to continue the passing improvement and break the 4K barrier in year 3 to keep his job.

 

yeah, those 2012-2014 seasons just scream early career Jalen Hurts to me.  

43 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

yeah, those 2012-2014 seasons just scream early career Jalen Hurts to me.  

Hurts passing TDs are less, an obvious area he needs to improve upon. Wilson’s best year rushing was year #3. 849 yards with 6 tds, Hurts hasn’t hit that many yards yet, but the 10 rushing TDs offsets the lower passing TDs IMO. 
 

Ultimately, we have to put it in the end zone and win games. I’ll judge him on that.

Come playoff time, good defenses will make him do it with his arm and that’s when we’ll know if he’s the guy moving forward.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

yeah, those 2012-2014 seasons just scream early career Jalen Hurts to me.  

Except for that whole winning several playoff games and the Super Bowl

8 hours ago, downundermike said:

Except for that whole winning several playoff games and the Super Bowl

That wasn’t Russ cooking those wins all by himself. Marshawn lynch going beast mode and the legion of boom had a little bit to do with the 2012 Seahawks.

 

 

GETTING TO THE PLAYOFFS WAS ONLY THE BEGINNING.   THE JOURNEY CONTINUES.......

7 minutes ago, KINGnabb said:

 

 

GETTING TO THE PLAYOFFS WAS ONLY THE BEGINNING.   THE JOURNEYMAN CONTINUES.......to start

Fyp

40 minutes ago, KINGnabb said:

 

 

GETTING TO THE PLAYOFFS WAS ONLY THE BEGINNING.   THE JOURNEY CONTINUES.......

Hurts was mentioned in today's mmqb column. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/09/05/joe-burrow-bengals-secret-success-mmqb

Some interesting perspective from his qb coach. 

Can Hurts Use Multiple Receivers in a Full Offense versus NFL Defenses? ..This isn't about Throwing, even though it would be nice to see added Arm Strength. Pre-snap Thru execution, Can He make a Full Offense Go?  If he can, 11-14 Wins.  If he can't---IF they end up in the same "half field offense" as they ran last year,  it's 7-9 wins,  even with all the added talent on the roster. 

On 9/1/2022 at 9:19 PM, MidMoFo said:

Some people have tried to make the Josh Allen comp for Hurts, but I’ve always thought Russell Wilson was the more similar comparison. It took Russ 4 years to break the 4,000 yard passing threshold. Hurts is a better runner, but I think he needs to continue the passing improvement and break the 4K barrier in year 3 to keep his job.

 

Good comparison. But there's the handful of dopes on here that will throw this to the side, and continue huddled up in their circle jerk of hating on Hurts.

19 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Good comparison. But there's the handful of dopes on here that will throw this to the side, and continue huddled up in their circle jerk of hating on Hurts.

Throw it to the side or see the obvious flaws to this comparison? Going into year 3, we are hoping he hits Russell's rookie numbers of touchdowns, rating and completion percentage lol Russell was better as a rookie than many vetted starters....but yeah, fair comparison 

25 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Throw it to the side or see the obvious flaws to this comparison? Going into year 3, we are hoping he hits Russell's rookie numbers

Wilson in 2012 - 16 games - 3,600 total yards, 30 total TDs, 13 turnovers.

Hurts in 2021 - 15 games - 3,900 total yards, 26 total TDs, 11 turnovers.

He's already hit Wilson's numbers. You are saying he has to do something to be good when he's already done it.

I just want wins from Jalen Hurts right now.

I don’t care how he gets them.

Improved reading of defenses would be great too.

But, just win baby.

27 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Wilson in 2012 - 16 games - 3,600 total yards, 30 total TDs, 13 turnovers.

Hurts in 2021 - 15 games - 3,900 total yards, 26 total TDs, 11 turnovers.

He's already hit Wilson's numbers. You are saying he has to do something to be good when he's already done it.

XD you guys are cute with the total numbers knowing he has been trash in the air