1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

It's an offensive driven league. If hurts was productive in the game and we won, he would get the credit. It's pretty ridiculous to think otherwise. I've already said if he could put up kirk cousins numbers, who many of you for some reason think Hurts is already better than, then I would say give him a blank check and move on. I just don't think he has it in him to be that level of a passer. If you need to use total numbers to defend your quarterback, then you totally need a new quarterback.

I don't think total numbers is a bad thing when your QB is an actual dual threat. You can argue durability is an issue, and I wouldn't fight you on that, but I don't think it's a bad thing to use total numbers. Lamar won MVP and only threw for 3100 yards, but he also threw for 36 TDs.  He also ran for 1200 yds and 7 TDs. That's impressive

4 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I already know what the argument would be if Hurts did win running. It'd be "we won due to the defense" or crediting every aspect of the team but him lol. 

 

It was mainly their defense that won those games, but yes, Eli was a part of the wins. That still doesn't help your argument of losing to better pocket passers. Neither QB is better than Brady.

Head to head in the Super Bowl

Eli, 551 yards, 66.2%, 3 TD's and 1 interception

Brady, 542 yards, 62.9%, 3 TD's and 1 interception

Eli was slightly better than Brady, and the Giants eeked out two wins.

 

Defensive ranks

2007, yards allowed, Pats 4th, Giants 7th, points allowed, Pats 4th, Giants 17th

2011, yards allowed, Pats 31st, Giants 27th, points allowed, Pats 15th, Giants 25th

 

Eli outperformed Brady head to head in the Super Bowl going against tougher defenses. 

 

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I don't think total numbers is a bad thing when your QB is an actual dual threat.

It is when you add Hurts total numbers last year and it barely gets him into the top 10, without adding any running stats to the other QB's.

4 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I don't think total numbers is a bad thing when your QB is an actual dual threat. You can argue durability is an issue, and I wouldn't fight you on that, but I don't think it's a bad thing to use total numbers. Lamar won MVP and only threw for 3100 yards, but he also threw for 36 TDs.  He also ran for 1200 yds and 7 TDs. That's impressive

36tds led all QBs in passing touchdowns that year and threw for 66%. If Jalen did that, not many would complain even if he ran for zero yards and touchdowns 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Head to head in the Super Bowl

Eli, 551 yards, 66.2%, 3 TD's and 1 interception

Brady, 542 yards, 62.9%, 3 TD's and 1 interception

Eli was slightly better than Brady, and the Giants eeked out two wins.

 

Defensive ranks

2007, yards allowed, Pats 4th, Giants 7th, points allowed, Pats 4th, Giants 17th

2011, yards allowed, Pats 31st, Giants 27th, points allowed, Pats 15th, Giants 25th

 

Eli outperformed Brady head to head in the Super Bowl going against tougher defenses. 

 

Eli is not a better pocket passer than Brady. And you're only making my point in regard to being a pocket passer having little to do with the actual outcome. It's a team game, and anyone can rise to the occasion. 

Just now, Shalodeep said:

36tds led all QBs in passing touchdowns that year and threw for 66%. If Jalen did that, not many would complain even if he ran for zero yards and touchdowns 

Oh I agree, I was just countering the point you made in regard to including all totals meaning you need a new QB. 

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

36tds led all QBs in passing touchdowns that year and threw for 66%. If Jalen did that, not many would complain even if he ran for zero yards and touchdowns 

You mean he was top 10 in a bunch of passing categories when he won MVP

 

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Eli is not a better pocket passer than Brady. And you're only making my point in regard to being a pocket passer having little to do with the actual outcome. It's a team game, and anyone can rise to the occasion. 

They are both pocket passers, and Eli was better than Brady head to head in the Super Bowl against tougher defenses.

Deal with it.

Just now, downundermike said:

You mean he was top 10 in a bunch of passing categories when he won MVP

 

He was also at the top for rushing QB's 🤣

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

Oh I agree, I was just countering the point you made in regard to including all totals meaning you need a new QB. 

Okay, I'll reword it then and see if you agree. If a quarterback needs to use total yards and touchdowns to get himself ranked into the top 20, then you may need a new quarterback. Do you agree?

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

He was also at the top for rushing QB's 🤣

Gonna bet that was just the cherry on top and not the driving factor. I actually am a bigger fan of Lamar than most on this board 

4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Okay, I'll reword it then and see if you agree. If a quarterback needs to use total yards and touchdowns to get himself ranked into the top 20, then you may need a new quarterback. Do you agree?

Gonna bet that was just the cherry on top and not the driving factor. I actually am a bigger fan of Lamar than most on this board 

No, because they factor all of that in anyway, so I don't see why that's a negative.  If Hurts had somehow thrown for 30+ TDs last year would he be viewed as negatively here? 

Well it was more than just the cherry, because his running ability was vital. It just worked out that he also threw for a ton of TD's too.  I really don't want Hurts to run for 1,200 yards, I want to see him throw more, run less, and improve in certain areas like most here do.

15 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You mean he was top 10 in a bunch of passing categories when he won MVP

 

They are both pocket passers, and Eli was better than Brady head to head in the Super Bowl against tougher defenses.

Deal with it.

You can change your argument all you want after I pointed out the flaw, that's cool with me.

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

No, because they factor all of that in anyway, so I don't see why that's a negative.  If Hurts had somehow thrown for 30+ TDs last year would he be viewed as negatively here? 

Well it was more than just the cherry, because his running ability was vital. It just worked out that he also threw for a ton of TD's too.  I really don't want Hurts to run for 1,200 yards, I want to see him throw more, run less, and improve in certain areas like most here do.

Hurts without his legs was outside the top 20 as a passer. He needed total stats to climb. His passing TD total was almost matched by Winston throwing to nobody in I believe 8 less games. Davis Mills did it in less games as well. He needs to climb the passing ladder significantly this year. Again, he gives kirk cousins numbers, pay the man. But if he gives us like 22/10 ... It's time to move on. I don't care if he ran for 700 and 8tds. 

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

You can change your argument all you want after I pointed out the flaw, that's cool with me.

The better pocket passer that day won, twice, against better defenses.

Brady is not perfect, and he was not as good as Eli, twice.

I also noticed not a lot of winning by run first QB's in either of those seasons playoffs.

59 minutes ago, MF POON said:

No sane Eagles fan would doubt the magic Foles had during that run. The only thing I'm mocking is the ridiculous narrative. We've seen plenty of pocket passers fail hard in the SB. Being a pocket passer doesn't have much to do with actually winning the SB.

But they fail to other pocket passers. 

7 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Hurts without his legs was outside the top 20 as a passer. He needed total stats to climb. His passing TD total was almost matched by Winston throwing to nobody in I believe 8 less games. Davis Mills did it in less games as well. He needs to climb the passing ladder significantly this year. Again, he gives kirk cousins numbers, pay the man. But if he gives us like 22/10 ... It's time to move on. I don't care if he ran for 700 and 8tds. 

I'm not disputing that his rushing stats made him more impressive overall as a player, and he would've still been outside the top 20 without his rushing numbers.  You still include it all. Just because he didn't didn't perform as well passing wise doesn't make including everything a bad thing. 

14 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The better pocket passer that day won, twice, against better defenses.

Brady is not perfect, and he was not as good as Eli, twice.

I also noticed not a lot of winning by run first QB's in either of those seasons playoffs.

The better team that day won. that is the point. We've seen SB's where one QB outperformed the other QB, yet still lost. Again, your argument is flawed

edit. In fact, Brady had better numbers than Foles in the SB, but he lost

6 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

But they fail to other pocket passers. 

see above

Just now, MF POON said:

The better team that day won. that is the point. We've seen SB's where another QB outperformed the other QB, yet still lost. Again, your argument is flawed

see above

The argument isn’t flawed. No one has ever said the team with the better pocket passer wins 100% of the time. The point is a pocket passer wins. No team has won a Super Bowl with a QB who’s game is defined moreso by his ability and propensity to take off and run with the ball as opposed to his ability to read a defense, make good decisions and deliver accurate passes. That’s the point. 

5 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

The argument isn’t flawed. No one has ever said the team with the better pocket passer wins 100% of the time. The point is a pocket passer wins. No team has won a Super Bowl with a QB who’s game is defined moreso by his ability and propensity to take off and run with the ball as opposed to his ability to read a defense, make good decisions and deliver accurate passes. That’s the point. 

He was making the silly point that the better pocket passer wins, while also failing to show why you can only win as a pocket passer.  Again, our SB win alone already disproves his first point, and the second is just nonsense. 

While your point is historically true, it's also just coincidence. Just look at the Den vs Car SB. Both Manning and Cam sucked in that game, yet Manning is a pure pocket passer. Denver dominated Carolina, but it wasn't because Cam Newton didn't throw from the pocket - the guy won league MVP that year throwing 35 TDs and only 10 Ints.  So again, it's a silly point to make.

11 minutes ago, MF POON said:

He was making the silly point that the better pocket passer wins

 

No, I didn't make the point, I proved the point.  Eli was better head to head against Brady in their two Super Bowl matchups, and did it against better defenses than Brady was facing.

 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

Head to head in the Super Bowl

Eli, 551 yards, 66.2%, 3 TD's and 1 interception

Brady, 542 yards, 62.9%, 3 TD's and 1 interception

Eli was slightly better than Brady, and the Giants eeked out two wins.

 

Defensive ranks

2007, yards allowed, Pats 4th, Giants 7th, points allowed, Pats 4th, Giants 17th

2011, yards allowed, Pats 31st, Giants 27th, points allowed, Pats 15th, Giants 25th

 

Eli outperformed Brady head to head in the Super Bowl going against tougher defenses. 

 

 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

 

No, I didn't make the point, I proved the point.  Eli was better head to head against Brady in their two Super Bowl matchups, and did it against better defenses than Brady was facing.

 

 

I've already proven your argument is flawed, and you ignore the examples  because you know it's true.  Have a good one, enjoy the game tonight

7 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I've already proven your argument is flawed, and you ignore the examples  because you know it's true.  Have a good one, enjoy the game tonight

You haven't proven anything, you said the better pocket passer lost, and I proved that the better pocket passer those days won both games, while playing against tougher defenses.

 

29 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You haven't proven anything, you said the better pocket passer lost, and I proved that the better pocket passer those days won both games, while playing against tougher defenses.

 

Some people are just delusional or idiots 

4 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

 

Awesome Photo I saw for the Inquirer today.   Very proud of Philadelphia for always supporting and nurturing African American Quarterbacks. 

 

Where's Don McPherson?  

5 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

 

Awesome Photo I saw for the Inquirer today.   Very proud of Philadelphia for always supporting and nurturing African American Quarterbacks. 

 

Vick doesn’t belong…

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

 

Awesome Photo I saw for the Inquirer today.   Very proud of Philadelphia for always supporting and nurturing African American Quarterbacks. 

 

Why does everything have to be about color? We support good QB. Period. Which is why Hurts sucks.