Vick likely wins multiple rings if he had studied the game when he was younger

51 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Where's Don McPherson?  

I see that Don McPherson was drafted 149th overall in 1988 by the Eagles in the 6th round.

Cunningham was QB. Cavanaugh was backup. Buddy Ryan was HC.

I found CFL stats, but not NFL. 

Did McPherson stick with the Eagles for a season or two? 

11 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

I see that Don McPherson was drafted 149th overall in 1988 by the Eagles in the 6th round.

Cunningham was QB. Cavanaugh was backup. Buddy Ryan was HC.

I found CFL stats, but not NFL. 

Did McPherson stick with the Eagles for a season or two? 

Dunno.  He came to my HS to play against the faculty when I was a student and sat around and signed autographs and chatted with everyone.  Nice guy.

5 hours ago, downundermike said:

But who won the Super Bowl, and this is not a race thing, it is a type of QB thing.  The pocket passer won the Super Bowl.

That team won a Super Bowl because they were unified as a team in a special way. Foles deservingly won Super Bowl MVP, but it took a whole lot of players and coaches to win that game. A team with that much cohesion and belief in each other could win a Super Bowl with a different style of QB. NFL history is loaded with pocket passers that failed to win or even get to Super Bowls. The list of dual-threat QBs is small in comparison to pocket-passers. Still, Steve Young and Russell Wilson have rings. So the success rate for dual threat QBs would actually be higher than that of pure pocket passers throughout the Super Bowl era. I understand that both QBs had passing success in their SB wins, but that's part of being a dual threat.

The problem with the non-stop debate is people don't want to believe that Hurts is an improving passer. Last year, he was a terrific runner and an average NFL passer. If his growth takes him to "above-average passer," he will continue to be a dual threat, but even harder to defend. Acting like there's no chance a dual-threat QB can win in the biggest game is silly. As long the opponent struggles with either his running or his passing, it doesn't matter which one is critical to the win. Even though it's very unlikely Super Bowls will experience whether elements, there have been quite a few playoff games where weather was a huge factor. In a game like this:

... passing isn't going to be a factor. Having a dual threat QB gives you an edge vs a pocket passer in bad weather. 

15 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Last year, he was a terrific runner and an average NFL passer.

16 being average, he was below that, so below average, in most passing categories.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

16 being average, he was below that, so below average, in most passing categories.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HurtJa00.htm#all_passing_detailed

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Att	Y/A+	NY/A+	AY/A+	ANY/A+	Cmp%+	TD%+	Int%+	Sack%+	Rate+
2020	22	PHI	qb	2	15	4	1-3-0	148	99	98	96	95	46	95	92	85	81
2021	23	PHI	QB	1	15	15	8-7-0	432	102	104	100	101	83	91	104	103	93

4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HurtJa00.htm#all_passing_detailed

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Att	Y/A+	NY/A+	AY/A+	ANY/A+	Cmp%+	TD%+	Int%+	Sack%+	Rate+
2020	22	PHI	qb	2	15	4	1-3-0	148	99	98	96	95	46	95	92	85	81
2021	23	PHI	QB	1	15	15	8-7-0	432	102	104	100	101	83	91	104	103	93

Not sure what you are showing me.

It is all moot now, he has been given an elite offensive line and elite weapons.  If he is not top 10 in most passing categories this year, he will be replaced.

Just now, downundermike said:

Not sure what you are showing me.

It is all moot now, he has been given an elite offensive line and elite weapons.  If he is not top 10 in most passing categories this year, he will be replaced.

I left the link so you could go the site and "mouse-over" things for explanation, but a score of 100 represents average. Higher is above average and lower is obviously below average. The problem with some of your arguments is that you argue he had less completions and less yards than average. But that's because he threw less attempts. 

In 2013, Nick Foles was 22nd in passing yards and 26th in completions, so you would argue he was below average in those categories, yet it was merely because he threw fewer passes.

Yet the same measuring stick I posted for Hurts has Foles' 2013:

2013*	24	PHI	QB	9	13	10	8-2-0	317	147	135	151	143	109	147	135	86	142

2 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Vick likely wins multiple rings if he had studied the game when he was younger

Yeah, if he had the maturity he does now and Andy Reid got ahold of him sooner we may very well be singing a very different toon about his career.

10 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I left the link so you could go the site and "mouse-over" things for explanation, but a score of 100 represents average. Higher is above average and lower is obviously below average. The problem with some of your arguments is that you argue he had less completions and less yards than average. But that's because he threw less attempts. 

In 2013, Nick Foles was 22nd in passing yards and 26th in completions, so you would argue he was below average in those categories, yet it was merely because he threw fewer passes.

Yet the same measuring stick I posted for Hurts has Foles' 2013:

2013*	24	PHI	QB	9	13	10	8-2-0	317	147	135	151	143	109	147	135	86	142

2013 Nick Foles - 27 passing touchdowns, 2 interceptions.  Bro.... 

Just now, Shalodeep said:

2013 Nick Foles - 27 passing touchdowns, 2 interceptions.  Bro.... 

Now try some reading comprehension instead of the automated reply.

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Now try some reading comprehension instead of the automated reply.

Jalen 15games started ... 16/9

Nick 10 games started .... 27/2 How bout you learn to read stats  if Nick started 15, bet he is further up the list. Also went 8-2... Jalen needed 5 more starts to get to 8 wins for the year. You aren't good at this

9 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Yeah, if he had the maturity he does now and Andy Reid got ahold of him sooner we may very well be singing a very different toon about his career.

A lot of people didn't believe it, but post-prison Vick was a changed man. He definitely took to coaching after that. It's a shame he wasted those early years.

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

Jalen 15games started ... 16/9

Nick 10 games started .... 27/2 How bout you learn to read stats  if Nick started 15, bet he is further up the list. Also went 8-2... Jalen needed 5 more starts to get to 8 wins for the year. You aren't good at this

Where did I compare Hurts to Foles? I used Foles as an example why you have to rely on statistical averages rather than flat totals. But you want so bad to prove me wrong, it went completely over your head and you are just rambling. 

It's these really bad arguments that make people attack Hurts's inabilities instead of allowing the wait and see. It's ridiculous to compare 16/9 vs 27/2. There are so many instances you could of used, and you went there KNOWING he didn't start as many games. It's dumb. 

Just now, Shalodeep said:

It's these really bad arguments that make people attack Hurts's inabilities instead of allowing the wait and see. It's ridiculous to compare 16/9 vs 27/2. There are so many instances you could of used, and you went there KNOWING he didn't start as many games. It's dumb. 

Nobody did this. You can't read. You continue to double down.

26 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I left the link so you could go the site and "mouse-over" things for explanation, but a score of 100 represents average. Higher is above average and lower is obviously below average. The problem with some of your arguments is that you argue he had less completions and less yards than average. But that's because he threw less attempts. 

In 2013, Nick Foles was 22nd in passing yards and 26th in completions, so you would argue he was below average in those categories, yet it was merely because he threw fewer passes.

Yet the same measuring stick I posted for Hurts has Foles' 2013:

2013*	24	PHI	QB	9	13	10	8-2-0	317	147	135	151	143	109	147	135	86	142

repost for clarity

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

repost for clarity

And why did he throw less attempts? Because he didn't START 15 GAMES. And in those 10 STARTS, he still threw for 27 touchdowns and only 2 interceptions. If Nick had started 15 GAMES, he would of been ranked much higher. 

Less games started = less yards and completions 

Easy as fu..... To understand.

Just now, Shalodeep said:

And why did he throw less attempts? Because he didn't START 15 GAMES. And in those 10 STARTS, he still threw for 27 touchdowns and only 2 interceptions. If Nick had started 15 GAMES, he would of been ranked much higher. 

Less games started = less yards and completions 

Easy as fu..... To understand.

That was never the point, but keep going down this rabbit hole ... 

 

Take a look at the pro-football-reference numbers I posted for Hurts and compare them to the ones I posted for Foles. You can see that the numbers for Foles were phenomenal and those for Hurts were mostly average. Yet for some strange reason, you keep acting as if I was comparing that season to Hurts. Foles was merely an example of why "flat total" rankings do not accurately measure a performance. 

 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

I left the link so you could go the site and "mouse-over" things for explanation, but a score of 100 represents average. Higher is above average and lower is obviously below average. The problem with some of your arguments is that you argue he had less completions and less yards than average. But that's because he threw less attempts. 

In 2013, Nick Foles was 22nd in passing yards and 26th in completions, so you would argue he was below average in those categories, yet it was merely because he threw fewer passes.

Yet the same measuring stick I posted for Hurts has Foles' 2013:

2013*	24	PHI	QB	9	13	10	8-2-0	317	147	135	151	143	109	147	135	86	142

Not bad for a guy who started only 10 games, eh?  

31 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

That was never the point, but keep going down this rabbit hole ... 

 

Take a look at the pro-football-reference numbers I posted for Hurts and compare them to the ones I posted for Foles. You can see that the numbers for Foles were phenomenal and those for Hurts were mostly average. Yet for some strange reason, you keep acting as if I was comparing that season to Hurts. Foles was merely an example of why "flat total" rankings do not accurately measure a performance. 

 

You are missing the point where if Foles had started 15, he wouldn't of ranked as low making your argument not a good one. The pace per game put him at 3330 yards and would be around the 15th range that year. His touchdown % that year was first in a year that Manning passed for 55 touchdowns.... He was insane effective that year.  At 15 games, he would of paced out at 40 touchdowns which would of been second in the league. You picked a bad year and player to make your argument with 

2 minutes ago, JournalistMic said:

Jalen Hurts hasn't even taken a single snap this season, and some fans already want him benched & it's not because Gardner Minshew is a fantastic QB.
I don't is it racism?

Easy enough. A QB who ranks in the 20s in almost every passing stat isn't going to be celebrated. The same ones you think may be racist would of taken Wilson, Watson without the headache, and most were fans of McNabb and Vick. Zero racism. We just like QBs who can throw

4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Easy enough. A QB who ranks in the 20s in almost every passing stat isn't going to be celebrated. The same ones you think may be racist would of taken Wilson, Watson without the headache, and most were fans of McNabb and Vick. Zero racism. We just like QBs who can throw

Teams don't need an elite QB to win a Super Bowl.

Trent Dilfer, Earl Morrall, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett and other average QBs won Super Bowls!

If the Eagles stick with Jalen Hurts strengths, RPO- handing the ball off or running it himself or short quick passes the Eagles will have a very successful season.
If they try to throw deep too often too many times and not stay committed to the run game this season will be similar to the start of last with slightly better results due to the improved talent & experience from the team.

Sure Jalen can improve with hard work each season but he's not going to turn into Tom Brady. He's just not an accurate mid/deep QB. Can he throw deep passes yes but the pass is slow to get there, and inaccurate that the best case is the receivers catch the ball only to be tackled right away. I hope a miracle did happen and he improved, but let's not diminish his strengths either. He doesn't turn the ball over that much because he does make good choices. He does run the ball well. He's a game manager type QB which isn't a bad thing as long as the Eagles are winning.

 

2 minutes ago, JournalistMic said:

Teams don't need an elite QB to win a Super Bowl.

Trent Dilfer, Earl Morrall, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett and other average QBs won Super Bowls!

If the Eagles stick with Jalen Hurts strengths, RPO- handing the ball off or running it himself or short quick passes the Eagles will have a very successful season.
If they try to throw deep too often too many times and not stay committed to the run game this season will be similar to the start of last with slightly better results due to the improved talent & experience from the team.

Sure Jalen can improve with hard work each season but he's not going to turn into Tom Brady. He's just not an accurate mid/deep QB. Can he throw deep passes yes but the pass is slow to get there, and inaccurate that the best case is the receivers catch the ball only to be tackled right away. I hope a miracle did happen and he improved, but let's not diminish his strengths either. He doesn't turn the ball over that much because he does make good choices. He does run the ball well. He's a game manager type QB which isn't a bad thing as long as the Eagles are winning.

 

Hurts was really really bad at RPOs last year, that's why they went away from that and went to the RO instead.

I'm enjoying watching Josh Hurts