Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Their metrics is based on their parameters. In other words their opinions. 

QB rating and QBR are based on parameters. So what's the difference?

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Their metrics is based on their parameters. In other words their opinions. 

Agreed.  When Patrick Mahomes throws 5 TD's week 1 and they rate him the #8 QB, you know they are a joke.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Agreed.  When Patrick Mahomes throws 5 TD's week 1 and they rate him the #8 QB, you know they are a joke.

He still received a very good grade, but their metrics don't grade outcome, just the throws by QBs. It's either a good throw that generates a positive score or a bad throw that generates a negative one. It's a lack of understanding of their grading system that gets people worked up. PFF only tries to grade the individual player for his part. That's why real analysts like to use PFF and fans get all butt hurt. 

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

QB rating and QBR are based on parameters. So what's the difference?

Someone created those parameters. Like I told you before per QBR Mahomes was better than Allen. Also to be clear QBR and Passer Ratings are based on statistics. PFF metrics are based of their personally assumed views and visual beliefs. 

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

He still received a very good grade, but their metrics don't grade outcome, just the throws by QBs. It's either a good throw that generates a positive score or a bad throw that generates a negative one. It's a lack of understanding of their grading system that gets people worked up. PFF only tries to grade the individual player for his part. That's why real analysts like to use PFF and fans get all butt hurt. 

This is all based on an opinion and has zero statistical value. What the heck is a positive or negative throw? What is that even mathematically based from?

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Someone created those parameters. Like I told you before per QBR Mahomes was better than Allen. Also to be clear QBR and Passer Ratings are based on statistics. PFF metrics are based of their personally assumed views and visual beliefs. 

And those parameters are based on the team's outcome. If a QB bounces a pass off a DE's helmet and a RB catches the deflection from the air and takes it 75 yards for a score, those statistical parameters will call that a great throw. PFF will call that garbage throw what it is --- pure luck that resulted in a positive outcome from a terrible pass. 

7 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

This is all based on an opinion and has zero statistical value. What the heck is a positive or negative throw? What is that even mathematically based from?

I've posted the link twice in this thread, but I honestly didn't expect you would click on it and see for yourself. You'd rather just bash their system than try to understand why it's different from the other measures of player performance. 

3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

And those parameters are based on the team's outcome. 

Oh you mean when the quarterback who threw five touchdowns lead the offense that scored the most points that week.

 

31 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Felt like the typical Dr. Jekyll/Carson Wentz type game. Costly and untimely plays that put his team in a hole, but put up a lot of numbers that makes people blame everyone but him for the loss. Frankly I’m glad it’s someone else’s problem but I can already see and hear the DC media saying Wentz isn’t the blame for this loss. 

I think the commanders might have pulled off the win if Rivera takes the extra point on the botched 2 point conversion. That was a really stupid call on his part.

6 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

And those parameters are based on the team's outcome. If a QB bounces a pass off a DE's helmet and a RB catches the deflection from the air and takes it 75 yards for a score, those statistical parameters will call that a great throw. PFF will call that garbage throw what it is --- pure luck that resulted in a positive outcome from a terrible pass. 

When your explanation as to why something is good or bad is based out of something that sounds like made up D&D rules then your who operation is bull crap. 

Just now, MF POON said:

I think the commanders might have pulled off the win if Rivera takes the extra point on the botched 2 point conversion. That was a really stupid call on his part.

Some idiot in the blog said that was the right decision, how in the hell do you not make it a seven point game and go for two instead?

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

When your explanation as to why something is good or bad is based out of something that sounds like made up D&D rules then your who operation is bull crap. 

Yeah, but they have 128 sided dice so they’re super smart

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Oh you mean when the quarterback who threw five touchdowns lead the offense that scored the most points that week.

 

That's great. Make him offensive player of the week. That doesn't mean Josh Allen didn't throw better passes.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Some idiot in the blog said that was the right decision, how in the hell do you not make it a seven point game and go for two instead?

 

Exactly. If they were gonna be ballsy they could've waited to go for a 2 point conversion for the win, instead of just shrinking the lead.

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

I think the commanders might have pulled off the win if Rivera takes the extra point on the botched 2 point conversion. That was a really stupid call on his part.

See that’s my point. We have been there before. A whole lot of second guessing, but no real blame will be placed at the feet of the quarterback. Carson’s going to throw for well over 4000 yards this year and that team might not win more than 8 games.

Whatever rankings metric puts Mahomes at #1 is the one that is most meaningful.  Whatever ones do not are flawed.

Just now, eagle45 said:

Whatever rankings metric puts Mahomes at #1 is the one that is most meaningful.  Whatever ones do not are flawed.

Simple but effective. I mean Mahomes had zero turnovers and led his team wih 5td passes, but somehow was ranked that low just makes their whole system seem flawed. At this point PFF can pretty much tell their disciples anything and they will buy it literally. 

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Simple but effective. I mean Mahomes had zero turnovers and led his team wih 5td passes, but somehow was ranked that low just makes their whole system seem flawed. At this point PFF can pretty much tell their disciples anything and they will buy it literally. 

lol --- You just refuse to accept that it's based on the passes and not the outcome. People that understand what they are doing clearly appreciate it more than those that refuse to understand. 

11 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

That's great. Make him offensive player of the week. That doesn't mean Josh Allen didn't throw better passes.

We aren’t arguing 1st and 2nd, they had Mahomes 8th

Just now, brkmsn said:

lol --- You just refuse to accept that it's based on the passes and not the outcome. People that understand what they are doing clearly appreciate it more than those that refuse to understand. 

The outcome was Mahomes threw 5 TD’s and led the highest scoring offense in the NFL, only for them to say he was the 8th best QB

Just now, brkmsn said:

lol --- You just refuse to accept that it's based on the passes and not the outcome. People that understand what they are doing clearly appreciate it more than those that refuse to understand. 

Not based on outcome is utter rubbish. Passer rating would be the equivalent of someone telling you the Earth is 93.392 million miles from the sun. PFF is saying the Earth is really really far from the sun. 😂🤣😂 If want to swear by the really really far guy then have it.

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Not based on outcome is utter rubbish. Passer rating would be the equivalent of someone telling you the Earth is 93.392 million miles from the sun. PFF is saying the Earth is really really far from the sun. 😂🤣😂 If want to swear by the really really far guy then have it.

EagleVa's head set to explode in 3...2...1...

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

lol --- You just refuse to accept that it's based on the passes and not the outcome. People that understand what they are doing clearly appreciate it more than those that refuse to understand. 

Production is more important than the passes.  An accurate pass in a tight window short of the sticks is an issue if a better qb would have hit the WR wide open downfield for a TD that wasn’t noticed.

This has nothing to do with Hurts, Allen, or Mahomes.  Baseball players may get scouted off quality swings and good contact…but when evaluating how stars are playing at the highest level, it’s real production that counts.  Hits, slugging, HRs, RBI, etc.  Grading good throw vs bad throw to rank qbs is just isolating one part of the job.  

 

Like most things analytic, PFF data is nuanced.  Let’s say quarterback A has 5 TD passes to receivers who are wide open and wins big.  Quarterback B throws same 5 passes and they’re perfect throws in tight coverage however all 5 are dropped and the game is lost. Which QB had a better game, individually?  How does the data express that?  That’s what PFF data tries to do - separate the plays from the outcome.

They aren't grading outcome. Obviously you missed the 7 or 8 posts where I stated this including the two with the link that explains their grading system thoroughly. & other QBs made throws that cumulatively received higher grades. That's all. 

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Not based on outcome is utter rubbish. Passer rating would be the equivalent of someone telling you the Earth is 93.392 million miles from the sun. PFF is saying the Earth is really really far from the sun. 😂🤣😂 If want to swear by the really really far guy then have it.

QB rating was great back in the '80s when there was no Sunday Ticket, All 22, internet, NFL Network, etc... and you had to wait until Monday to get your stats from the newspaper. But times have changed, old man. We have new technology and new resources and we can evaluate players in different ways. But if it helps, we can wait until tomorrow morning to discus this after you've had time to read your paper. 

1 minute ago, Hawkeye said:

Like most things analytic, PFF data is nuanced.  Let’s say quarterback A has 5 TD passes to receivers who are wide open and wins big.  Quarterback B throws same 5 passes and they’re perfect throws in tight coverage however all 5 are dropped and the game is lost. Which QB had a better game, individually?  How does the data express that?  That’s what PFF data tries to do - separate the plays from the outcome.

Do they then look at the entire play and see the other wide open receivers on those dropped passes.  Just because a pass is dropped does not mean it is a good play, there may have been a better play to make.