9 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Wentz has as much pure talent as Mahomes and Allen. But talent alone only gets you so far. He clearly has issues that have derailed his career. 

Hurts has very little talent comparatively speaking, but the team has designed an offense that maximizes his natural running skills and allows him to be successful by putting opposing defenders in conflict and having him make quick reads to determine where the ball should go. 

I don't actually agree here bud. I don't think Wentz has as much talent as Mahomes and Allen. Though I do agree that his character and attitude has meant he's not realised his full potential. 

Hurts has a lot of talent but again I agree not as much as Mahomes and Allen. But this year, especially the last couple of weeks, he's really not run all that much. He's developed so much as a passer that he is now trusting his arm more. 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't actually agree here bud. I don't think Wentz has as much talent as Mahomes and Allen.

Tape don't lie. Wentz is a ridiculous athlete who can make every throw Allen and Mahomes can make. The fact that his career arc has been very different has nothing to do with a lack of physical tools. 

 

13 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

 

 

 

Top 5 QB

14 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Wentz has as much pure talent as Mahomes and Allen. But talent alone only gets you so far. He clearly has issues that have derailed his career. 

Hurts has very little talent comparatively speaking, but the team has designed an offense that maximizes his natural running skills and allows him to be successful by putting opposing defenders in conflict and having him make quick reads to determine where the ball should go. 

So much nonsense.  Wentz had no college pedigree.  Hurts started at Alabama and Oklahoma.  Wentz played well until he got hurt in 2017 and hasn't been remotely close since.  That injury, along with his petulant, brooding persona destroyed his career.  

If you really think Hurts has "very little talent” you have no clue.

3 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Tape don't lie. Wentz is a ridiculous athlete who can make every throw Allen and Mahomes can make. The fact that his career arc has been very different has nothing to do with a lack of physical tools. 

 

Your video won't play but if it's his 2017 highlight reel you're running about 5 years behind. That guy doesn't exist anymore.  Ask the Colts and Commanders.

17 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

Your video won't play but if it's his 2017 highlight reel you're running about 5 years behind. That guy doesn't exist anymore.  Ask the Colts and Commanders.

I think you are failing to comprehend what i was saying. Maybe reread my posts? 

13 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I think you are failing to comprehend what i was saying. 

Pretty common occurrence

6 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Tape don't lie. Wentz is a ridiculous athlete who can make every throw Allen and Mahomes can make. The fact that his career arc has been very different has nothing to do with a lack of physical tools. 

 

Wentz definitely had the big arm and the mobility, but has always lacked control and had a propensity to overthrow his passes and was never able to correct that. I still think if he finds the right situation he can settle in as a very good starter for the second half of his career. It will be a challenge for him to overcome the perception that he's the reason each bad team has moved on from him. Still, I can see Wentz' career following the Alex Smith path where he has to go through a lot of adversity to mature into the best version of himself. 

It's weird how, as a big Wentz fan when he was here, I looked at those big plays vs washington in Sept. 2017 and have a positive take on that game, but when you re-watch all his passes, it wasn't so pretty:

2 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

Your video won't play but if it's his 2017 highlight reel you're running about 5 years behind. That guy doesn't exist anymore.  Ask the Colts and Commanders.

The videos work. There's a message telling you why you need to click on the part that says "Watch on YouTube." Come on guys, This has been a thing for years. Once a Youtube video gets flagged for having NFL content it won't be viewable outside of youtube (unless permissions were granted). Get with the times. 

OK, I've obviously done a 180 on Hurts, but let's keep it reasonable.  

Wentz IS on the Mahomes/Allen pure physical talent spectrum.  Carson Wentz was everyone's #1 comp for Josh Allen from a raw tools perspective when Allen came out.  He has an enormous arm, great athleticism, elusiveness in the pocket, and can make every throw.

One huge physical issue with Wentz is his release/mechanics.  He loops around and has a very delayed delivery.  Mahomes and Allen have compact, effortless releases.  That problem has crushed Wentz, is part of his fumble tendency, and neutralizes his excellent natural arm strength.

Then there is the hero ball, which has been well debated.

Hurts, at his best (which is really, really good lately), is more on the Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott spectrum.  Athletic, mobile, not a big arm, great touch downfield.  2 of those 3 guys I just mentioned are HOF QBs with lots of SB titles, so there's no shame in that.

But it's 2 completely different levels of raw tools.

See where I don't necessarily agree is that to be an NFL QB it takes more than raw talent. And a part of having the NFL talent required is above the shoulders and being a leader. So sure in terms of raw athleticism maybe Hurts isn't up there. But then again in other ways he is. And he's a leader and a hard worker. 

Interesting that we are back to speaking about Wentz. Let's not be revisionist about it - he should have been MVP, he was a major part in us winning a Lombardi, and he was an incredible talent. He's not some bum who fluked his way into a lucrative NFL career. It's been quite sad to see how his career has fallen so far, really. I don't think Eagles fans give him enough recognition for his time here (although of course it ended badly).

I wrote on the old EMB a few years ago that I felt he began to decline about the time he was putting his energy into his foundation. His religious devotion was more important to him than his football. Now, I am not going to judge a man for that, despite being non-religious myself. He wanted to do good works. Fair enough. But you can't be a successful QB in the NFL unless you really want it, and are willing to work for it. His past performance has been enough for successive franchises to take a chance on him. I doubt another will. But, he's made his money, he's using it on something he believes in, and he gave a lot of people a lot of joy at times.

So long, Carson, and thanks for all the fish.

I'm glad he is doing well. There are still come concerns on how he'll do when he faces a defense like Dallas again when he can't run and has to just rely on his arm, but we'll see.

On 11/4/2022 at 5:20 PM, Hawkeye said:

The only place where Hurts' future is even being debated is here.  The rest of the world thinks the Eagles have their franchise guy for years to come. 

That's understandable though. Especially after recent QB history. We all (or at least a very large portion of us), thought that Wentz would be the guy for 10 to 15 years. Basically all we got out of him though, is 2017... which for me, is enough to not be angry with how the rest of his Eagles career turned out. He did enough for that one seasons for me to forgive all of the rest. 

But still, you want more than that from the #2 pick in the draft. 

Will Hurts pan out and be here, successfully, for many years to come? I hope so. But I've been around too long to think that I can bank on it at this point. 

11 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Tape don't lie. Wentz is a ridiculous athlete who can make every throw Allen and Mahomes can make. The fact that his career arc has been very different has nothing to do with a lack of physical tools. 

 

Was. Maybe for 1 year but not anymore 

8 hours ago, jsb235 said:

I think you are failing to comprehend what i was saying. Maybe reread my posts? 

I’m definitely failing to comprehend.  I’m like that.  So explain please.

1 hour ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

That's understandable though. Especially after recent QB history. We all (or at least a very large portion of us), thought that Wentz would be the guy for 10 to 15 years. Basically all we got out of him though, is 2017... which for me, is enough to not be angry with how the rest of his Eagles career turned out. He did enough for that one seasons for me to forgive all of the rest. 

But still, you want more than that from the #2 pick in the draft. 

Will Hurts pan out and be here, successfully, for many years to come? I hope so. But I've been around too long to think that I can bank on it at this point. 

Most of us just don’t care about Wentz anymore.  He had some very good games 6 seasons ago, got hurt and was never the same physically or mentally.  He became a toxic teammate and was drummed out of Philly, Indy and now Washington.  

Jalen Hurts is the bright future. Why are we even talking about Wentz?

46 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

I’m definitely failing to comprehend.  I’m like that.  So explain please.

I think a lot of times, people use "talent" in sentences where "potential" would be the more accurate word. Wentz had loads of talent --- still does. But for "reasons" he's never reached the level he had potential to get to. JaMarcus Russell had tons of talent and never did a thing with it in the NFL. I believe Hurts has a lot of talent too and he seems to be realizing his potential. His talents aren't necessarily the same as Wentz or Brady and some people think more highly of different talents. 

Anyway, I think he was saying that is wasn't a lack of talent that did Wentz in. 

24 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

I’m definitely failing to comprehend.  I’m like that.  So explain please.

It was explained pretty well. If you don't get it, i am not sure i can do any better. If you woke up this morning thinking carson wentz came into the nfl with physical traits that were the same as jalen hurts, and different than mahomes and allen, i am not sure anything i say will make you wake up tomorrow with a different opinion.

Wheels about to fall apart

His arm is feeling better

WTF umpire

3 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

Most of us just don’t care about Wentz anymore.  

But that experience is part of all of our fan 'psyche', or make up and plays a role in how much one might trust or distrust a young QB or at least how much one might be willing to 'commit' to a young QB. 

If Hurts is the 'real deal', I guarantee that all (or almost all) Eagles fans will jump on board with him. 

If you care that Hurts does not have Josh Allen's arm or where and why he was drafted in the middle of round 2 then you are beyond help.

Hurts is the real deal.  He is 13-1 in his last 14 regular season games.

He has a rating over 100 in 8 of those 14.

He's on a 2022 pace for 5000+ yards and 37+ TDs with 6 turnovers.

He's a top 5 QB in the NFL in 2022 using any metric you want.

Who cares about his college throwing mechanics or decision making from 2018?

 

Career passer rating as an Eagle (minimum 10 starts):

• 1st is Foles at 93.2
• 2nd is Hurts at 91.5 and flying up higher week by week.
• 3rd is Wentz at 89.2 with his arm talent and athleticism and hero ball.

Next up is win %

• Foles is 1st at .656
• McNabb is 2nd at .651
• Hurts is at .630 and climbing

 

 

TD to INT ratio

• Foles 2.52 to 1
• Hurts 2.27 to 1 (and climbing)
• Wentz 2.26 to 1

8 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

But that experience is part of all of our fan 'psyche', or make up and plays a role in how much one might trust or distrust a young QB or at least how much one might be willing to 'commit' to a young QB. 

That's fair. 

After how the Wentz debacle ended I’m still fairly doubtful about giving any quarterback a big contract. We are seeing around the league how quarterbacks are losing their talented weapons due to teams having to pay them insane amounts of money. We are also seeing a resurgence from teams that aren’t paying those guys like Seattle and here. Heck the Eagles won their first and only Super Bowl, because they didn’t have to pay big money for their quarterback. They’re 8-0 now because they’re not paying big money to their quarterback also. Ultimately this is the business of football. I don’t like it, but the Eagles are going to have to pay the money to Hurts. They’re going to lose talent because of it just like they lost talent when they paid Wentz. Now more than ever Howie will need to draft extremely well to compensate. Can’t have another 2017 like draft. Those guys should be mainstays right now and most of them are gone. An elite quarterback isn’t enough to win a Super Bowl. Hopefully Hurts is a team player enough to take less money for the sake of the franchise and winning.