14 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Josh Allen already has 13 turnovers. Both losses this month were entirely on him

 

No way in hell he wins mvp this year. It’s hurts and Mahomes down the stretch with Tua and Hill trying to dark horse it

Out of curiosity, how many wins were "entirely on him"?  

 

 

FYI... I don't think any loss is ever 'entirely' on any player.  Just as no win is ever 'entirely' on any player.

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Out of curiosity, how many wins were "entirely on him"?  

 

 

FYI... I don't think any loss is ever 'entirely' on any player.  Just as no win is ever 'entirely' on any player.

I think there’s a mean of what is expected out of a player, and depending on how well you play above that or below it can heavily impact a football game. Josh Allen had 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter and overtime. All he has to do is stop being that guy and they win handedly. That is a player losing the game for their team. No he’s not the only one to blame nor is it entirely on him, but of everyone on the field, he overwhelmingly has the most power to prevent that from happening.

 

In his last 10 quarters, Josh Allen has 1 TD,  6 interceptions, and 2 lost fumbles. All those turnovers heavily influenced the final scores of these games. The Bills very possibly beat both Minnesota and New York with a lesser QB who doesn’t turn the ball over.

Not saying that’s a better choice for Buffalo overall as he’s a top level QB usually, but his play is hurting his MVP case significantly. He currently leads the league in both interceptions and total turnovers.

37 minutes ago, nipples said:

Ridiculous that Brady is even on that list. I’d have some of the non-QBs like Saquan and Jefferson ahead of him.  

Yeah but it's designed to get people to wager and people love to bet on superstars like Brady, Mahomes, Allen and Rodgers. It's not a forecast or projection, more of a menu. 

12 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I think there’s a mean of what is expected out of a player, and depending on how well you play above that or below it can heavily impact a football game. Josh Allen had 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter and overtime. All he has to do is stop being that guy and they win handedly. That is a player losing the game for their team. No he’s not the only one to blame nor is it entirely on him, but of everyone on the field, he overwhelmingly has the most power to prevent that from happening.

 

In his last 10 quarters, Josh Allen has 1 TD,  6 interceptions, and 2 lost fumbles. All those turnovers heavily influenced the final scores of these games. The Bills very possibly beat both Minnesota and New York with a lesser QB who doesn’t turn the ball over.

Not saying that’s a better choice for Buffalo overall as he’s a top level QB usually, but his play is hurting his MVP case significantly. He currently leads the league in both interceptions and total turnovers.

I didn't say he played well, but losses are team losses and wins are team wins.   He wasn't entirely to blame for wins, nor entirely to blame for losses.  He can be a larger contributor to the loss, or larger contributor to the win, but it is unreasonable to say 'entirely'.  

BTW, one of those fumbles wasn't 'entirely' on him, but the QB-C exchange is always a charged fumble to the QB, even if it wasn't 'entirely' his fault.

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I didn't say he played well, but losses are team losses and wins are team wins.   He wasn't entirely to blame for wins, nor entirely to blame for losses.  He can be a larger contributor to the loss, or larger contributor to the win, but it is unreasonable to say 'entirely'.  

BTW, one of those fumbles wasn't 'entirely' on him, but the QB-C exchange is always a charged fumble to the QB, even if it wasn't 'entirely' his fault.

In the grand scheme of the game you can say that, but in any individual moment that teeters on the precipice of a win or a loss, a single player can make a mistake so profound that it takes a probable win and turns it into a guaranteed loss, as with Josh’s goalline interception to end the game. We could say it’s a combination of the Oline and the receiver’s route and the play called, but he made that choice, read it wrong or the ball slipped out, and that singular decision took what could very well have been a Bills win into a certain Bills defeat.

And again an INT in the fourth to allow Minnesota to come back and tie it, and again at the end of the jets game with just a completely absent-minded turnover to end it.

57 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

In the grand scheme of the game you can say that, but in any individual moment that teeters on the precipice of a win or a loss, a single player can make a mistake so profound that it takes a probable win and turns it into a guaranteed loss, as with Josh’s goalline interception to end the game. We could say it’s a combination of the Oline and the receiver’s route and the play called, but he made that choice, read it wrong or the ball slipped out, and that singular decision took what could very well have been a Bills win into a certain Bills defeat.

And again an INT in the fourth to allow Minnesota to come back and tie it, and again at the end of the jets game with just a completely absent-minded turnover to end it.

No game is determined in a single play.  For example: Had the Bills D stopped the Vikings from walking down the field so easily, then they don't go to OT in the first place.    If the DB knocks the ball down on 4th and 18, instead of trying for the INT on the ball that Jefferson stole from him with one hand... game is entirely on him.  Center made a bad snap at the goal line and let the Vikings recover in the end zone... entirely on him.  Allen threw the pick on the last play... so it's entirely on him.   There's a bunch of other plays that were 'entirely' on someone else that could have changed the outcome.  So, it's not 'entirely' on any of them.  It all comes down to where you want to put the blame  as to where it ultimately lands.   The loss lands on the team.

9 hours ago, Swoop said:

Tua is more of an MVP candidate than Hurts is, as of right now.

That's not to say Hurts isn't one as well. He is.

I'd have Hurts and Tua about level right now, with Mahomes in the lead. Tua is rising fast though. Having an incredible season.

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I didn't say he played well, but losses are team losses and wins are team wins.   He wasn't entirely to blame for wins, nor entirely to blame for losses.  He can be a larger contributor to the loss, or larger contributor to the win, but it is unreasonable to say 'entirely'.  

BTW, one of those fumbles wasn't 'entirely' on him, but the QB-C exchange is always a charged fumble to the QB, even if it wasn't 'entirely' his fault.

Re: MVP, nobody cares. We are talking about the award. MVPs are blamed when they throw picks into the end zone to lose games and when they miss open guys to lose games and when they throw multiple picks to the Jets.  MVP is a ridiculously high standard and Josh Allen has repeatedly fallen on his face this year. He's out unless the 3 ahead of him fall on their faces multiple times.

 

Josh Allen would not vote for Josh Allen in the top 3 for the MVP right now.

 

12 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Re: MVP, nobody cares. We are talking about the award. MVPs are blamed when they throw picks into the end zone to lose games and when they miss open guys to lose games and when they throw multiple picks to the Jets.  MVP is a ridiculously high standard and Josh Allen has repeatedly fallen on his face this year. He's out unless the 3 ahead of him fall on their faces multiple times.

 

Josh Allen would not vote for Josh Allen in the top 3 for the MVP right now.

 

Yeah... and I was responding to the statement that he was 'entirely' responsible for the loss.   Allen has a ridiculously high bar set for him, because he raised the bar by his play.  And right now, he's not living up to that level.  Few do.  There's still half a season left to play, but to put the loss completely on one player is incorrect and shouldn't be a statement made without being pressed on it.  Not playing at an MVP level does not mean that a player is entirely responsible for a loss.   Sorry.  That's an overstatement.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah... and I was responding to the statement that he was 'entirely' responsible for the loss.   Allen has a ridiculously high bar set for him, because he raised the bar by his play.  And right now, he's not living up to that level.  Few do.  There's still half a season left to play, but to put the loss completely on one player is incorrect and shouldn't be a statement made without being pressed on it.  Not playing at an MVP level does not mean that a player is entirely responsible for a loss.   Sorry.  That's an overstatement.

He was 100% entirely responsible for all 3 losses as far as MVP voters care. They are unforgiving people.

I can tell you that if any of the 50 voters have Allen at 1 right now its because they are from Buffalo and are corrupt.

Cousins was 100% responsible for prime time in Philly. Its why his team is 8-1 but he's way down the list.

Just now, SkippyX said:

He was 100% entirely responsible for all 3 losses as far as MVP voters care.

I can tell you that if any of the 50 voters have Allen at 1 right now its because they are from Buffalo and are corrupt.

Now you are conflating things.   Not getting votes for MVP because of the way he played in the 3 losses is completely different from him being entirely responsible for those losses.  

The last line is just ridiculous.  Way to jump to extremes.     Still half a season to play and no need for any MVP voter to cast a vote yet.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Now you are conflating things. 

The last line is just ridiculous.  Way to jump to extremes.  

I'm 100% talking about MVP and MVP only (as are most here in the Jalen Hurts thread, not the Bills loss responsibility thread) and could not care less about your keen insights into the individual blame levels of the Bills during 3 losses for the 5th ranked team in the AFC and 3rd in the AFC East.

You want to watch Allen say "I have to be better" again?

We all know the backup DB could have swatted the ball into the bench on 4th and 18 but no one who is voting for MVP really cares about that guy.

9 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I'm 100% talking about MVP and MVP only (as are most here in the Jalen Hurts thread, not the Bills loss responsibility thread) and could not care less about your keen insights into the individual blame levels of the Bills during 3 losses for the 5th ranked team in the AFC and 3rd in the AFC East.

You want to watch Allen say "I have to be better" again?

We all know the backup DB could have swatted the ball into the bench on 4th and 18 but no one who is voting for MVP really cares about that guy.

And I didn't respond to your comment.   I was commenting on the statement that he was 'entirely' responsible for the losses.    

 

Have a good night.  Hope you enjoy the game tonight.

Sure there will be some who will blame this loss on Jalen. 

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Sure there will be some who will blame this loss on Jalen. 

Who cares? The Eagles embarrassed themselves at home on prime time. They should hear what people are saying.

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Who cares? The Eagles embarrassed themselves at home on prime time. They should hear what people are saying.

Nothing worse than what they’re saying to themselves right now. They’re 8-1. Guess the seasons over now huh? 

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Nothing worse than what they’re saying to themselves right now. They’re 8-1. Guess the seasons over now huh? 

Far from over, but we still haven't seen a single good team performance for four full quarters. Every week, Hurts and some others keep saying the same thing (they're leaving plays on the field), but every following week, they keep doing it. After 9 games, it's a trend. Maybe we should all stop talking about MVP and all that crap and just hope to actually see some improvement (from the offense) going forward.

On a related note, I was looking forward to seeing which players on defense we retain after this season, but I can safely say right now that I'm not feeling any of them are irreplaceable. We need leadership on defense. Maybe Dean can become that guy if he gets his shot next season. 

Just now, brkmsn said:

Far from over, but we still haven't seen a single good team performance for four full quarters. Every week, Hurts and some others keep saying the same thing (they're leaving plays on the field), but every following week, they keep doing it. After 9 games, it's a trend

Agreed. This team hasn't put it all together yet and tonight they've been found out. It's a worry for sure because what we've seen tonight is that if you can get ahead of this team then we may struggle. Washington did to us what we've done to others. Get a lead and then use the clock to beat you. 

I'm interested in seeing how he responds. 

40 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

I'm interested in seeing how he responds. 

This is going to tell us a lot about Hurts and a lot about this team. They've got to get ready for Sunday and go and win. This is now a bit of a test regardless of the opponent. 

2 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

I'm interested in seeing how he responds. 

Yeah hopefully next week when he throws a pass to watkins he can also carry him into the end zone before he fumbles, A real MVP will do that

2 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Yeah hopefully next week when he throws a pass to watkins he can also carry him into the end zone before he fumbles, A real MVP will do that

Pez Watkins

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Far from over, but we still haven't seen a single good team performance for four full quarters. Every week, Hurts and some others keep saying the same thing (they're leaving plays on the field), but every following week, they keep doing it. After 9 games, it's a trend. Maybe we should all stop talking about MVP and all that crap and just hope to actually see some improvement (from the offense) going forward.

On a related note, I was looking forward to seeing which players on defense we retain after this season, but I can safely say right now that I'm not feeling any of them are irreplaceable. We need leadership on defense. Maybe Dean can become that guy if he gets his shot next season. 

Dean as the savior? Yeah sorry not ready to go there. What’s with the sudden turn of pessimism by you of all people? The guy who went weeks defending the likes of JJAW now thinks they entire defense isn’t replaceable? Heck if PFF poster boy Brandon Graham wasn’t so thirsty for a sack (what he really wants and not those hurries) then maybe the mistake isn’t made. The team as a whole made a lot of mistakes, but my original point is simply this game wasn’t solely on Hurts. But no I am not getting my hopes up for Dean being the guy who fixes this defense. I guess I’d feel better if he showed some flashes even on special teams. I haven’t seen any so far this year. Have you?

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Far from over, but we still haven't seen a single good team performance for four full quarters. 

Thank you.

If Houston wasn't complete dog water, there's a real chance they would've won. 

The games this team has had issues with this season are the ones that they force the other team to abandon the run. Teams have now caught on to running up the gut, cutting back and making quick passes.

It's a major concern and many people just ignore it because "8-1"

I didn't have an issue with Hurts at all last night. The offense barely had the ball due to the defense allowing Heinicke to look like prime Brady. Bad and missed calls also attributed to things, but I blame this loss mainly on turnovers and poor defense.