15 hours ago, Thrive said:

I won’t try to change your perspective but I will say that I have a fundamentally different view of hero ball than you do. Much of what we saw on Sunday was a QB applying a game plan that clearly was designed to punish the Packers inept run defense. Further, many of those runs were designed and scripted. The combination of these last two sentences are the anti-thesis of hero ball in my book.

We also saw a QB routinely take on multiple defenders, including but not limited to LBs.  Many of those runs are by design and the coaches need to knock that off.   They continue to use him as a battering ram on 3rd/4th and 1.  This is not sustainable.  He will get hurt if they don't change this design.  

 

But, on multiple occasions Hurts did also make a hero ball play, where rather than going down or out of bounds, he put his shoulder down and tried to run over defenders, even after securing the first down.  That needs to stop too.  

14 hours ago, NOTW said:

I don't see Hurts playing hero ball at all, and I see him making smart decisions to get out of bounds, slide or go down to avoid getting hit.  I've seen analysts saying that very thing about him that he's making these good decisions.  

I see him doing that sometimes, and in the last game, I saw him also not do that.  

 

And I hate the battering ram short yardage offense we have with him being the only option for a short yardage situation.  That falls on the GM, imo, that we don't have a different option for a power back.  The QB should not be the power back for an NFL team.  HS, sure.  College... maybe.  NFL, no way.

20 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I see him doing that sometimes, and in the last game, I saw him also not do that.  

 

And I hate the battering ram short yardage offense we have with him being the only option for a short yardage situation.  That falls on the GM, imo, that we don't have a different option for a power back.  The QB should not be the power back for an NFL team.  HS, sure.  College... maybe.  NFL, no way.

He can squat 600 lbs tho

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

We also saw a QB routinely take on multiple defenders, including but not limited to LBs.  Many of those runs are by design and the coaches need to knock that off.   They continue to use him as a battering ram on 3rd/4th and 1.  This is not sustainable.  He will get hurt if they don't change this design.  

 

But, on multiple occasions Hurts did also make a hero ball play, where rather than going down or out of bounds, he put his shoulder down and tried to run over defenders, even after securing the first down.  That needs to stop too.  

LOL

Injuries can happen on any play (See Tua, Dak, Wentz, Rodgers, etc...). You guys pretend to know the future by claiming "not sustainable." The fact is, you don't know the future and if Hurts does get an injury it can just as easily happen on a pass attempt. Injuries are a part of football and that will always be a risk for every player on the field --- even the guy trying to take a shot at a QB. What I pay a little more attention to is a player's ability to stay on the field. Some players are either more durable than others or have a knack for minimizing collisions as a ball carrier, or both. 

As a RB, Terrell Davis had a HOF career despite it being shortened due to injuries. Frank Gore (likely HOFer) and Emmitt Smith managed to have extremely long careers that avoided serious injuries. Which career path was "not sustainable?"

11 hours ago, Talonblood said:

All the guys that are getting pissed at me for saying that RB Jalen Hurts is going to get Carson Crunched while running- are all going to hide when it happens. Or just make a bunch of excuses. Hurts is like Michael Vick- whooopdeeee freekin do. Vick never did anything but RUN.

Every NFL player gets hurt, QBs get hurt from standing in the pocket & taking a hit. You just don't like a QB that runs. If and when he gets hurt and misses games it's not some "gotcha." Every player gets hurt.

11 hours ago, Talonblood said:

All the guys that are getting pissed at me for saying that RB Jalen Hurts is going to get Carson Crunched while running- are all going to hide when it happens. Or just make a bunch of excuses. Hurts is like Michael Vick- whooopdeeee freekin do. Vick never did anything but RUN.

Dude is like 3rd in the league in yards per pass attempt and passer rating. Top 10 in completion % (a touch above Josh Allen even). He can also run, and the Eagles have one of the best run blocking offensive lines in the game. So yeah, he runs a good amount.  He also balances it with accurate throws and good decisions.
 

If the run game stops working, he’ll throw it more. Think about this: Hurts averages 8.0 yards per pass attempt. Mahomes is at 8.1. If Hurts had the same number of pass attempts as Mahomes, he’d have 3536 passing yards, putting him just 49 behind Mahomes. Pat has one passing TD for every 15 attempts. Hurts has one for every 18 attempts. Meaning with the same number of attempts as Mahomes, Hurts would be around 24 TD passes right now. (Would be 2nd in the NFL). 
 

His efficiency as a passer is another reason the run is opened up for him. If he couldn’t burn teams through the air, they’d just sell out to stop him from running on them. 
 

9 minutes ago, time2rock said:

4	0:37	1	15	DET 44	38	35	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards

4	1:03	1	10	WAS 29	24	8	Jalen Hurts kneels for -2 yards	3.640	2.830
4	0:31	2	12	WAS 31	24	8	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards

4	1:48	1	10	JAX 13	21	29	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards	4.710	3.900
4	1:06	2	11	JAX 14	21	29	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards	3.900	3.030
4	0:33	3	12	JAX 15	21	29	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards

4	0:17	1	10	PHI 33	20	17	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards

4	0:54	1	10	DAL 27	17	26	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards	3.780	3.100
4	0:27	2	11	DAL 28	17	26	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards

4	0:55	1	10	PHI 35	29	17	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards	1.270	0.590
4	0:30	2	11	PHI 34	29	17	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards	0.590	-0.230

4	0:31	1	10	IND 33	17	16	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards

4	0:24	1	10	GNB 33	33	40	Jalen Hurts kneels for -1 yards

 

*Posted for those that inevitably complain about his 4th quarter rushing stats. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

LOL

Injuries can happen on any play (See Tua, Dak, Wentz, Rodgers, etc...). You guys pretend to know the future by claiming "not sustainable." The fact is, you don't know the future and if Hurts does get an injury it can just as easily happen on a pass attempt. Injuries are a part of football and that will always be a risk for every player on the field --- even the guy trying to take a shot at a QB. What I pay a little more attention to is a player's ability to stay on the field. Some players are either more durable than others or have a knack for minimizing collisions as a ball carrier, or both. 

As a RB, Terrell Davis had a HOF career despite it being shortened due to injuries. Frank Gore (likely HOFer) and Emmitt Smith managed to have extremely long careers that avoided serious injuries. Which career path was "not sustainable?"

It's called probability.  You play with fire, eventually you are going to get burned.

 

No, I do not know the future, but I do know that he was blasted in the ribs and took his time walking to the other end of the field due to the shot to the ribs he took at the goal line.  And yes, he could get injured in the pocket.  But, as has been pointed out time and again, the QB in the pocket has rules to protect him.  QB running around does not.  QB running around is going to take extra punishment that the QB in the pocket will not.  AND... if he's out of the pocket, he needs to be smarter EVERY TIME about the punishment he chooses to take. 

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

Every NFL player gets hurt, QBs get hurt from standing in the pocket & taking a hit. You just don't like a QB that runs. If and when he gets hurt and misses games it's not some "gotcha." Every player gets hurt.

Yup.  And players that put their body in harm's way more often are more likely to get hurt than players that don't.  

2 hours ago, nipples said:

Dude is like 3rd in the league in yards per pass attempt and passer rating. Top 10 in completion % (a touch above Josh Allen even). He can also run, and the Eagles have one of the best run blocking offensive lines in the game. So yeah, he runs a good amount.  He also balances it with accurate throws and good decisions.
 

If the run game stops working, he’ll throw it more. Think about this: Hurts averages 8.0 yards per pass attempt. Mahomes is at 8.1. If Hurts had the same number of pass attempts as Mahomes, he’d have 3536 passing yards, putting him just 49 behind Mahomes. Pat has one passing TD for every 15 attempts. Hurts has one for every 18 attempts. Meaning with the same number of attempts as Mahomes, Hurts would be around 24 TD passes right now. (Would be 2nd in the NFL). 
 

His efficiency as a passer is another reason the run is opened up for him. If he couldn’t burn teams through the air, they’d just sell out to stop him from running on them. 
 

I hear you. I'm just worried about him. He is taking a beating during those runs. You know why running backs aren't valued these days? They take a beating and their careers don't last very long. I would like this guy to stick around.

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

Every NFL player gets hurt, QBs get hurt from standing in the pocket & taking a hit. You just don't like a QB that runs. If and when he gets hurt and misses games it's not some "gotcha." Every player gets hurt.

Running backs in particular have short careers. Why? They take a pounding. Hurts is taking that pounding, and I want him to stick around. Less running, more passing.

56 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.  And players that put their body in harm's way more often are more likely to get hurt than players that don't.  

 

1 minute ago, Talonblood said:

Running backs in particular have short careers. Why? They take a pounding. Hurts is taking that pounding, and I want him to stick around. Less running, more passing.

As I said before, Hurts is doing it smart.  He reads the field, gets out of bounds, or goes down to avoid the hits.  TV analysts have said this as well.  You guys are making up this narrative of "taking a pounding" and "hero ball" and putting his body in harm's way despite evidence.  You just don't like that a QB runs and want him to be a statue back there passing the ball which is fine but Hurts isn't doing anything wreckless or dangerous.  In fact, he's had plenty of times he's passed the ball, passed on the move, etc.  Part of his skill set is running when there's the opportunity, and then he's being smart about not "taking a pounding."

QBs that hold the ball too long in the pocket and get hit are putting their body in harm's way.  QBs that don't run away from pressure when the O line breaks down put their body in harm's way.  QBs that step into the pocket closer to rushing linemen put their body in harm's way.  

Playing football puts your body in harm's way.

4 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

As I said before, Hurts is doing it smart.  He reads the field, gets out of bounds, or goes down to avoid the hits.  TV analysts have said this as well.  You guys are making up this narrative of "taking a pounding" and "hero ball" and putting his body in harm's way despite evidence.  You just don't like that a QB runs and want him to be a statue back there passing the ball which is fine but Hurts isn't doing anything wreckless or dangerous.  In fact, he's had plenty of times he's passed the ball, passed on the move, etc.  Part of his skill set is running when there's the opportunity, and then he's being smart about not "taking a pounding."

QBs that hold the ball too long in the pocket and get hit are putting their body in harm's way.  QBs that don't run away from pressure when the O line breaks down put their body in harm's way.  QBs that step into the pocket closer to rushing linemen put their body in harm's way.  

Playing football puts your body in harm's way.

I hear you. I'm behind Hurts 100%. He took a couple of shots that could have been avoided, and they were kill shot type hits. That concerns me. Those type of hits are when he is running. Like I said, throw more, run less. He is taking a pounding.

I read this article, and it seems that everyone in the Eagles org is fine with Hurts running all the time, and don't share my concern he is getting pounded. Ok- I digress. I'll enjoy him while he is still healthy and just hold my breath when he takes the big hits that are coming. If THAT many people are ok with the way Hurts plays, fine- I'll join in- because that's not going to change. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess. 🤣

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/challenge-keeping-jalen-hurts-out-harms-way

32 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

As I said before, Hurts is doing it smart.  He reads the field, gets out of bounds, or goes down to avoid the hits.  TV analysts have said this as well.  You guys are making up this narrative of "taking a pounding" and "hero ball" and putting his body in harm's way despite evidence.  You just don't like that a QB runs and want him to be a statue back there passing the ball which is fine but Hurts isn't doing anything wreckless or dangerous.  In fact, he's had plenty of times he's passed the ball, passed on the move, etc.  Part of his skill set is running when there's the opportunity, and then he's being smart about not "taking a pounding."

QBs that hold the ball too long in the pocket and get hit are putting their body in harm's way.  QBs that don't run away from pressure when the O line breaks down put their body in harm's way.  QBs that step into the pocket closer to rushing linemen put their body in harm's way.  

Playing football puts your body in harm's way.

He can do it smarter.  In the most recent game he was taking far more shots than he had in previous games.  That's not a trend I want to see continue.  I agree he had been better about it earlier in the year.  Last game a lot of that went out the window.   I can remember at least 4 or 5 times that he turned inside to take on contact from multiple defenders where it wasn't necessary.  Including one where he took a shot to the ribs and took a slow walk from one goal line to the other after the quarter break, which the analysts also discussed.

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He can do it smarter.  In the most recent game he was taking far more shots than he had in previous games.  That's not a trend I want to see continue.  I agree he had been better about it earlier in the year.  Last game a lot of that went out the window.   I can remember at least 4 or 5 times that he turned inside to take on contact from multiple defenders where it wasn't necessary.  Including one where he took a shot to the ribs and took a slow walk from one goal line to the other after the quarter break, which the analysts also discussed.

So he's been smart, but one game was a bit more risky for your liking.  Time to hit the panic button, he has to be perfect every game!  

 

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

So he's been smart, but one game was a bit more risky for your liking.  Time to hit the panic button, he has to be perfect every game!  

Nicely built straw man there.  No panic, merely a statement that he needs to be smarter about when he's taking contact... and that the team needs to find an alternative to using him as a battering ram for every short yardage situation they find themselves in.  

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nicely built straw man there.  No panic, merely a statement that he needs to be smarter about when he's taking contact... and that the team needs to find an alternative to using him as a battering ram for every short yardage situation they find themselves in.  

It would be nice to add a bulldozer type back for those short yardage situations.  

Any team that invests untold millions and years that round up to double digits in a QB that sets records for rushing attempts is going to regret it eventually.  That's just an inevitability.  Every NFL fan has seen this movie before.  

Could Hurts be the first...literally the first...QB in this mold to win a SB?  Sure he could.  Lots of parity in the NFL right now and this is working explosively well.  But his playing style...either due to injuries or simply decreased effectiveness when he can't run like this anymore at 28-30....it's not going to age well.  

He’s 24 right now, a 4 years deal gets him through age 28. More than enough juice to squeeze in those years, even with the heavy run load.

29 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

He’s 24 right now, a 4 years deal gets him through age 28. More than enough juice to squeeze in those years, even with the heavy run load.

Sure, if the team is constructed as it currently is (give or take) for those years.

How do you imagine that happening if 45-50 million is tied up by Hurts? Or perhaps more accurately, why would he only take a 4 year deal?

8 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It's called probability.  You play with fire, eventually you are going to get burned.

 

No, I do not know the future, but I do know that he was blasted in the ribs and took his time walking to the other end of the field due to the shot to the ribs he took at the goal line.  And yes, he could get injured in the pocket.  But, as has been pointed out time and again, the QB in the pocket has rules to protect him.  QB running around does not.  QB running around is going to take extra punishment that the QB in the pocket will not.  AND... if he's out of the pocket, he needs to be smarter EVERY TIME about the punishment he chooses to take. 

Having the wind knocked out of you isn't an injury. The rules regarding sliding were purposed for QBs that run to give them an option as protection. Hurts uses this option much of the time. When Hurts decides to put his shoulder down and fight for a critical extra yard or two, he could very well be the guy dishing out the hit as opposed to taking the hit. 

8 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.  And players that put their body in harm's way more often are more likely to get hurt than players that don't.  

Pinkston didn't like to put his body in harm's way and his career lasted 4 seasons. In most cases, career length has to do with talent and production. 

7 hours ago, Talonblood said:

Running backs in particular have short careers. Why? They take a pounding. Hurts is taking that pounding, and I want him to stick around. Less running, more passing.

RBs are a dime a dozen and they price themselves out of work in most cases. Josh Adams had a short career because he wasn't anything special --- Same with Pumphrey. Acting like it's always about "the pounding" is short-sighted. You simply don't hear the term "Franchise RB." Why? Because they are easily replaced  and thus playing a position where teams don't like to dedicate a lot of cap space toward. 

The most dangerous place in sports is in the pocket during a football game.

Massive freakishly athletic dudes are trying to hurt you.

Lets cry about running instead.

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

Sure, if the team is constructed as it currently is (give or take) for those years.

How do you imagine that happening if 45-50 million is tied up by Hurts? Or perhaps more accurately, why would he only take a 4 year deal?

That’s where Howie needs to step up, we have the additional draft capital, make it work.

They gave Wentz a 4 year extension, I reckon they’ll want the same with Hurts. It’s good for Hurts too, he gets another bite at the apple at only 28.