DaEagles4Life Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 General Motors has pledged to stop making gasoline-powered passenger cars, vans and sport utility vehicles by 2035, marking a historic turning point for the iconic American carmaker and promising a future of new electric vehicles for American motorists. GM chief executive Mary Barra, who antagonized many climate experts by embracing President Donald Trump’s relaxation of fuel efficiency targets, said Thursday the company now wants to lead the way to a greener future. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ 2
Bwestbrook36 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 48 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: General Motors has pledged to stop making gasoline-powered passenger cars, vans and sport utility vehicles by 2035, marking a historic turning point for the iconic American carmaker and promising a future of new electric vehicles for American motorists. GM chief executive Mary Barra, who antagonized many climate experts by embracing President Donald Trump’s relaxation of fuel efficiency targets, said Thursday the company now wants to lead the way to a greener future. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ I just don't see how there will be enough power to go around to charge all these vehicles. 1
20dawk4life Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 Not a chance in hell its happens and they stay in business. 1
EaglesRocker97 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: Not a chance in hell its happens and they stay in business. Change is scary, I know. 1
xzmattzx Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 Hopefully California can end their rolling blackouts. Otherwise, people won't be able to drive anywhere. 1
Jsvand12 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 No chance they’ll meet this goal unless they plan to pretty much go to just making pickup trucks which they left off the list.
Eaglesfandan Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 Coming in 2036: Who killed the Electric Car Part 2." Since GM basically helped to kill it the first time around (That actually was an interesting watch).
Eaglesfandan Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 Anyway, anybody that thinks that big oil is just going to sit around and let this happen is fooling themselves.
20dawk4life Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 6 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Change is scary, I know. No. There’s just not the market in the US to support it or the technology for charging and battery life yet. But please tell me more about something you don’t understand.
Talkingbirds Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 Looks like China likes electric cars. Always a world market, till US comes on board. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55838413
EaglesRocker97 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 3 hours ago, 20dawk4life said: But please tell me more about something you don’t understand. Looks like we got a salty boi, lol. Not yet, but this is 15 years from now. They're getting ahead of the curve because there's a good chance the production of gasoline-powered vehicles is outlawed by 2050, not to mention the price of gas will likely be prohibitive at that point. They see the writing on the wall. It's also a good marketing strategy to stake themselves out as the first manufacturer to go fully electric.
20dawk4life Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Looks like we got a salty boi, lol. Not yet, but this is 15 years from now. They're getting ahead of the curve because there's a good chance the production of gasoline-powered vehicles is outlawed by 2050, not to mention the price of gas will likely be prohibitive at that point. They see the writing on the wall. It's also a good marketing strategy to stake themselves out as the first manufacturer to go fully electric. No ones salty man relax. it’s nothing but PR. Gas isn’t going anywhere. Places can try to ban it but that’s just going to drive up the cost of used vehicles. Until we can get the same range as diesel and fill up/charge in the same amount of time people won’t be converting. Add in all the people that struggle with technology from 10 years ago they aren’t going to be looking to buy an EV. they’re supplying something with very very little demand. 1
Bwestbrook36 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: No ones salty man relax. it’s nothing but PR. Gas isn’t going anywhere. Places can try to ban it but that’s just going to drive up the cost of used vehicles. Until we can get the same range as diesel and fill up/charge in the same amount of time people won’t be converting. Add in all the people that struggle with technology from 10 years ago they aren’t going to be looking to buy an EV. they’re supplying something with very very little demand. There is like one plug in station ( when I say station I mean literally 1 plug for 1 car lol) within a 50 mile radius where I live lol. So you have to get a sheet ton of people on board with this to make it happen and make it worth GMs time and money. I'm willing to bet that doesn't happen, not fully like the goal they are shooting for anyways.
20dawk4life Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said: There is like one plug in station ( when I say station I mean literally 1 plug for 1 car lol) within a 50 mile radius where I live lol. So you have to get a sheet ton of people on board with this to make it happen and make it worth GMs time and money. I'm willing to bet that doesn't happen, not fully like the goal they are shooting for anyways. In the article it says they’re trying to team up with EVgo to add 2700 stations. That’s not that much. Sure focus on dense populations and all that but still not a lot of stations. It’s a joke to think we’re going to not have gas cars. 1
EaglesRocker97 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: No ones salty man relax. it’s nothing but PR. Gas isn’t going anywhere. Places can try to ban it but that’s just going to drive up the cost of used vehicles. Until we can get the same range as diesel and fill up/charge in the same amount of time people won’t be converting. Add in all the people that struggle with technology from 10 years ago they aren’t going to be looking to buy an EV. they’re supplying something with very very little demand. We're good. Maybe it's just PR at this point, but it's a start. It could still push other manufacturers in that direction. And I don't think gas is going anywhere anytime soon, but the cost could be exorbitant in the next few decades, thereby creating new markets. You're correct that there is little demand right now, but 20 years from now? Who knows.
Bwestbrook36 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: In the article it says they’re trying to team up with EVgo to add 2700 stations. That’s not that much. Sure focus on dense populations and all that but still not a lot of stations. It’s a joke to think we’re going to not have gas cars. Yeah that barely scratches the surface. Now all cars going hybrid by 2035? That I can get behind and think can happen. Full electric, no 1
20dawk4life Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said: Yeah that barely scratches the surface. Now all cars going hybrid by 2035? That I can get behind and think can happen. Full electric, no Yea. We see the f150 as a hybrid now. You don’t lack power and can still tow over 12k pounds.
Jsvand12 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 50 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said: There is like one plug in station ( when I say station I mean literally 1 plug for 1 car lol) within a 50 mile radius where I live lol. So you have to get a sheet ton of people on board with this to make it happen and make it worth GMs time and money. I'm willing to bet that doesn't happen, not fully like the goal they are shooting for anyways. They’ll end up adding a few small electric cars and a suv that they quickly realize makes them no profit and abandon the idea after the good PR wears off. 1
Jsvand12 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 49 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: We're good. Maybe it's just PR at this point, but it's a start. It could still push other manufacturers in that direction. And I don't think gas is going anywhere anytime soon, but the cost could be exorbitant in the next few decades, thereby creating new markets. You're correct that there is little demand right now, but 20 years from now? Who knows. Why do you think gas will be exorbitantly expensive in the next few decades? Cheap to produce and there is plenty of supply. We may end up fully electric at some point in the future but it will be after everyone posting here is long dead. Hell, I’m still waiting on the damn flying cars my dad used to tell me everyone would be using by the time I was older....... 1
EaglesRocker97 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jsvand12 said: Why do you think gas will be exorbitantly expensive in the next few decades? Extraction is becoming more complex/expensive. We are definitely draining global stores to the point that we have to dig deeper and source it from increasingly remote/hard to reach places.
we_gotta_believe Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 There are 3 major hurdles here, 1 regarding scale, and 2 regarding physics. All 3 of these are external factors outside the control of a vehicle manufacturer. The first, is charging infrastructure. Look up the stats for how ubiquitous gas stations currently are vs charging stations. Now you might say, 15 years gives you plenty of time, but rolling out chargers at scale is no simple task and hardly a risk-free investment for those funding such projects. The past 15 years don't show any encouraging trends in this regard. The second, is related to battery technology. Right now we need massive battery packs to provide the energy capacity for useful ranges between charges. The reason for this is that most Americans won't be happy with ranges under 50 miles or so. Even then, one missed charge puts you at risk of nervously finding the nearest charger and now having to plan your day around that. Once you get to ranges above 100 or 150 mi, you can forgo a charge or two without worry but that battery pack is massive. Again, 15 years allows plenty of time for this technology to advance which is true in this case. But the energy density of gasoline is so damn high, and it's so damn cheap right now (thanks to the advent of shale extraction) that the cost effectiveness is a very dicey proposition, even that far into the future. Maybe they're betting on heavy subsidies being increased even further, or maybe they think people will sacrifice on cost to help address climate change. Hard to say, but again, not exactly a low bar here. And the last one is related to the second one above. Charge times. We take for granted how fast it takes to replenish range with gasoline. We can add hundreds of miles of range within minutes. Good luck trying to do that with a massive lithium based battery without the thing exploding. Again you say, 15 years allows for plenty of innovation, but rolling out fuel cells we ain't, nor can we cut down on charging times all that much even with massive cooling systems or some new fangled density optimization designs. The fact is likely to remain, large battery packs take a long time to charge because they get hot very fast. Now what GM may be doing is placing a bet on the next generation's attitude towards vehicle ownership and the environment in general. They might think young kids are less likely to own a vehicle due to environmental concerns and thus less likely to require typical ranges we see today. Honestly, it's not a crazy idea after what just happened to all of us. The segment of the workforce that will be working from home is expected to dwarf what it was pre-covid, so a lot of those people might not really need a vehicle with the same range it has now, and with reduced ranges come a lowering of the second and third hurdles I mentioned above. Now do I think it'll actually happen? F no. If I'm betting on this, I'll put a lot of money down that GM still will be making and selling big ass gas guzzling SUVs for the soccer moms who won't want to be dealing with range/charge issues on the way to soccer practice. They'll be hybrids at best. We are the richest country in the world, and a result, we are an extremely entitled culture that lives a very inefficient life full of waste and excess. We don't drive SUVs and trucks because we need to, we drive them because we can. So if you're asking me if I think any of that will change in 15 years, my only response is to wheeze in pained, obese, American laughter. 2 1
20dawk4life Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 That last part killed me @we_gotta_believe 1
DBW Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 7 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: There are 3 major hurdles here, 1 regarding scale, and 2 regarding physics. All 3 of these are external factors outside the control of a vehicle manufacturer. The first, is charging infrastructure. Look up the stats for how ubiquitous gas stations currently are vs charging stations. Now you might say, 15 years gives you plenty of time, but rolling out chargers at scale is no simple task and hardly a risk-free investment for those funding such projects. The past 15 years don't show any encouraging trends in this regard. The second, is related to battery technology. Right now we need massive battery packs to provide the energy capacity for useful ranges between charges. The reason for this is that most Americans won't be happy with ranges under 50 miles or so. Even then, one missed charge puts you at risk of nervously finding the nearest charger and now having to plan your day around that. Once you get to ranges above 100 or 150 mi, you can forgo a charge or two without worry but that battery pack is massive. Again, 15 years allows plenty of time for this technology to advance which is true in this case. But the energy density of gasoline is so damn high, and it's so damn cheap right now (thanks to the advent of shale extraction) that the cost effectiveness is a very dicey proposition, even that far into the future. Maybe they're betting on heavy subsidies being increased even further, or maybe they think people will sacrifice on cost to help address climate change. Hard to say, but again, not exactly a low bar here. And the last one is related to the second one above. Charge times. We take for granted how fast it takes to replenish range with gasoline. We can add hundreds of miles of range within minutes. Good luck trying to do that with a massive lithium based battery without the thing exploding. Again you say, 15 years allows for plenty of innovation, but rolling out fuel cells we ain't, nor can we cut down on charging times all that much even with massive cooling systems or some new fangled density optimization designs. The fact is likely to remain, large battery packs take a long time to charge because they get hot very fast. Now what GM may be doing is placing a bet on the next generation's attitude towards vehicle ownership and the environment in general. They might think young kids are less likely to own a vehicle due to environmental concerns and thus less likely to require typical ranges we see today. Honestly, it's not a crazy idea after what just happened to all of us. The segment of the workforce that will be working from home is expected to dwarf what it was pre-covid, so a lot of those people might not really need a vehicle with the same range it has now, and with reduced ranges come a lowering of the second and third hurdles I mentioned above. Now do I think it'll actually happen? F no. If I'm betting on this, I'll put a lot of money down that GM still will be making and selling big ass gas guzzling SUVs for the soccer moms who won't want to be dealing with range/charge issues on the way to soccer practice. They'll be hybrids at best. We are the richest country in the world, and a result, we are an extremely entitled culture that lives a very inefficient life full of waste and excess. We don't drive SUVs and trucks because we need to, we drive them because we can. So if you're asking me if I think any of that will change in 15 years, my only response is to wheeze in pained, obese, American laughter. There are already cars and suvs on the market you can buy today with over 350 mile ranges. I’ll agree that the charging availability for long range trips is an issue, but the typical commuters who live 25-50 miles from their jobs have no problem even in today’s world. What they need to develop is rapid charging and potential for recharging while driving. Expect to see very futuristic developments such as "solar skin” or shells on the cars that will charge them while driving. The tech is already in development and could be ready faster than you think, but what holds it back is the political lobbying. With Biden in charge things will get moving again quickly. on a related note it’s hilarious that most of the people that cried about the pipeline stoppage because they don’t think clean energy is ever going to work and more harmful for the environment have a portfolio full of lithium, and clean energy tech. Most of which are Chinese owned companies so they’re helping to fuel the competitive economy they so badly despise.
Boogyman Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 7 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: There are 3 major hurdles here, 1 regarding scale, and 2 regarding physics. All 3 of these are external factors outside the control of a vehicle manufacturer. The first, is charging infrastructure. Look up the stats for how ubiquitous gas stations currently are vs charging stations. Now you might say, 15 years gives you plenty of time, but rolling out chargers at scale is no simple task and hardly a risk-free investment for those funding such projects. The past 15 years don't show any encouraging trends in this regard. The second, is related to battery technology. Right now we need massive battery packs to provide the energy capacity for useful ranges between charges. The reason for this is that most Americans won't be happy with ranges under 50 miles or so. Even then, one missed charge puts you at risk of nervously finding the nearest charger and now having to plan your day around that. Once you get to ranges above 100 or 150 mi, you can forgo a charge or two without worry but that battery pack is massive. Again, 15 years allows plenty of time for this technology to advance which is true in this case. But the energy density of gasoline is so damn high, and it's so damn cheap right now (thanks to the advent of shale extraction) that the cost effectiveness is a very dicey proposition, even that far into the future. Maybe they're betting on heavy subsidies being increased even further, or maybe they think people will sacrifice on cost to help address climate change. Hard to say, but again, not exactly a low bar here. And the last one is related to the second one above. Charge times. We take for granted how fast it takes to replenish range with gasoline. We can add hundreds of miles of range within minutes. Good luck trying to do that with a massive lithium based battery without the thing exploding. Again you say, 15 years allows for plenty of innovation, but rolling out fuel cells we ain't, nor can we cut down on charging times all that much even with massive cooling systems or some new fangled density optimization designs. The fact is likely to remain, large battery packs take a long time to charge because they get hot very fast. Now what GM may be doing is placing a bet on the next generation's attitude towards vehicle ownership and the environment in general. They might think young kids are less likely to own a vehicle due to environmental concerns and thus less likely to require typical ranges we see today. Honestly, it's not a crazy idea after what just happened to all of us. The segment of the workforce that will be working from home is expected to dwarf what it was pre-covid, so a lot of those people might not really need a vehicle with the same range it has now, and with reduced ranges come a lowering of the second and third hurdles I mentioned above. Now do I think it'll actually happen? F no. If I'm betting on this, I'll put a lot of money down that GM still will be making and selling big ass gas guzzling SUVs for the soccer moms who won't want to be dealing with range/charge issues on the way to soccer practice. They'll be hybrids at best. We are the richest country in the world, and a result, we are an extremely entitled culture that lives a very inefficient life full of waste and excess. We don't drive SUVs and trucks because we need to, we drive them because we can. So if you're asking me if I think any of that will change in 15 years, my only response is to wheeze in pained, obese, American laughter. I have been looking into the Tesla model 3 as I am moving about 50 miles away from my work. The extended range model (basically the middle of the line model) has a range of like 360 miles.
we_gotta_believe Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, Boogyman said: I have been looking into the Tesla model 3 as I am moving about 50 miles away from my work. The extended range model (basically the middle of the line model) has a range of like 360 miles. And the battery packs on it are massive. Which means two things, high up-front cost, and lengthy recharge times. When gas is this cheap, your break even point vs a comparable gas car is likely to be 5-10 years out, even with subsidies.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now