Just now, UK Eagle said:

I can only state the obvious and suggest if something was so urgent, it could be done within a single limited scope bill, to be expedited through the legislature.  Adding other conditions or items could come across as leveraging an item someone desperately want, to get what you want somewhere else, rather than a desire to solve the core issue. Politics and all that.

But it's not my circus and not my monkey to deal with.  We have enough of our problems over here.

 

Right, there's no actual urgency from dems because they intentionally created the problem then want to put forth a loaded bill that doesn't actually solve the issue but also includes free handouts for other countries. It's absurd. But hey, the tv said it was a good deal and republicans killed it because it was too good, so that's what the liberals will repeat in here. 

11 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

I can only state the obvious and suggest if something was so urgent, it could be done within a single limited scope bill, to be expedited through the legislature.

Which would also be DOA when the Ring Leader of the circus flat out admits passing any bills which are potential solutions would score points for his oppposition. These are the words of a man far more concerned about his own interests than what is good for the country he could be re-elected to govern.

5 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Right, there's no actual urgency from dems because they intentionally created the problem then want to put forth a loaded bill that doesn't actually solve the issue but also includes free handouts for other countries. It's absurd. But hey, the tv said it was a good deal and republicans killed it because it was too good, so that's what the liberals will repeat in here. 

In an election year over here, immigration is massive issue with defined sides at this moment. It's one of number of reasons our Govt is going to basically be utterly decimated at the next election. High inflation, high taxes, high immigration, poor health service, etc. People are angry at the political class.

As such, I can't initially see why Dems would sit on the side of not wanting to resolve an issue with a single bill  because it's an open goal for Trump to keep scoring in. They can get the Ukraine funding through later on?

 

4 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

In an election year over here, immigration is massive issue with defined sides at this moment. It's one of number of reasons our Govt is going to basically be utterly decimated at the next election. High inflation, high taxes, high immigration, poor health service, etc. People are angry at the political class.

As such, I can't initially see why Dems would sit on the side of not wanting to resolve an issue with a single bill  because it's an open goal for Trump to keep scoring in. They can get the Ukraine funding through later on?

 

Oh so the Dems are the ones sitting on the side of not wanting to pass anything? Is that your understanding of what's happening?

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Which would also be DOA when the Ring Leader of the circus flat out admits passing any bills which are potential solutions would score points for his oppposition. These are the words of a man far more concerned about his own interests than what is good for the country he could be re-elected to govern.

But equally, if the Dems could call the Reps bluff on a single topic immigration bill, it would immediately give them some moral high ground for the election right?  We gave you a single topic bill, you stopped it. Why? Adding conditions just makes people suspicious

Just now, UK Eagle said:

But equally, if the Dems could call the Reps bluff on a single topic immigration bill, it would immediately give them some moral high ground for the election right?  We gave you a single topic bill, you stopped it. Why? Adding conditions just makes people suspicious

Right? It wouldn't even be difficult and it would make the Republicans look like buffoons for rejecting it. But we all know why a bill like that would never even get proposed. It's because dems have facilitated the invasion, and they don't want it to stop. So they'll be all on board for a clown bill that doesn't actually stop anything, but we'll never see a serious attempt to solve the problem. 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Oh so the Dems are the ones sitting on the side of not wanting to pass anything? Is that your understanding of what's happening?

I'm saying that, as I did on my last post, if there was single topic bill there for immigration, the Dems can bluff the Reps - they get what they want or the get the optics of pointing at the Reps.  Anything with added conditions for Ukraine or Israel gives people an out not to vote on it.  You'd want to nail them down on a single bill.

20 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

But equally, if the Dems could call the Reps bluff on a single topic immigration bill, it would immediately give them some moral high ground for the election right?  We gave you a single topic bill, you stopped it. Why? Adding conditions just makes people suspicious

Welcome to American Politics where the gears on the machine grind too slowly as it is, let alone if issues were addressed individually. But it wouldn't even matter in this case. The Dems already did attempt to pass this in good faith on the bill that was shot down, and guess what? People like you are still claiming they are sitting on their hands about the issue which clearly means nothing they can do will convince people with their fingers in their eyes and wool over their eyes.

 

Former President Trump praised the demise of the bipartisan border deal Friday, taking credit helping to tank the legislation that took months to negotiate. 

Trump urged Republicans to vote against the bill before it was unveiled last Sunday, arguing its passage would be a political victory for President Biden in the election-year matchup that is likely to feature both men as their respective party nominees. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4459861-trump-praises-collapse-of-bipartisan-border-deal/

9 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

I'm saying that, as I did on my last post, if there was single topic bill there for immigration, the Dems can bluff the Reps - they get what they want or the get the optics of pointing at the Reps.  Anything with added conditions for Ukraine or Israel gives people an out not to vote on it.  You'd want to nail them down on a single bill.

It's curious why you haven't actually asked the same question of the Republicans. Why do you suppose they haven't proposed this single topic bill which can solve the issue? Take some time to mull it over and let me know what you come up with.

29 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

In an election year over here, immigration is massive issue with defined sides at this moment. It's one of number of reasons our Govt is going to basically be utterly decimated at the next election. High inflation, high taxes, high immigration, poor health service, etc. People are angry at the political class.

As such, I can't initially see why Dems would sit on the side of not wanting to resolve an issue with a single bill  because it's an open goal for Trump to keep scoring in. They can get the Ukraine funding through later on?

 

there was a bill on the table. a bill that had everything border patrol and Republicans had been asking for. 

Republicans are now on record voting against it.

worse, they voted against it because it was tied to funding for Ukraine. which may play well with their stupid MAGA base, but most of the country is in favor of the US aiding Ukraine in its fight against Russia. 

that sort of bill used to be something that both sides would agree was a win-win. but in US politics, if Republicans give a little to get a little they're considered cucks and RINOs. 

this is what MAGA has wrought.

 

6 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

I can only state the obvious and suggest if something was so urgent, it could be done within a single limited scope bill, to be expedited through the legislature.  Adding other conditions or items could come across as leveraging an item someone desperately want, to get what you want somewhere else, rather than a desire to solve the core issue. Politics and all that.

But it's not my circus and not my monkey to deal with.  We have enough of our problems over here.

There is no doubt that too many riders get attached to bills, but it would be quite inefficient to vote every issue separately. 

With that said, you seem to be ignoring the fact that this bill was stopped in its tracks because the far right wing of the GOP did not want this to be "fixed” during a democratic presidency. 

42 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

But it's not my circus and not my monkey to deal with.  We have enough of our problems over here.

You should have quit right here. 

23 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It's curious why you haven't actually asked the same question of the Republicans. Why do you suppose they haven't proposed this single topic bill which can solve the issue? Take some time to mull it over and let me know what you come up with.

Not sure if you're serious or not, but they had a bill that was much more straight forward (actually was about the border and didn't include foreign aid). Had common sense measures like additional border wall funding, E-Verify for employers, more stringent penalties for those who overstay visas. Now, obviously it never stood a chance because it was a very clear attempt to limit illegal immigration. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/11/congress-texas-republicans-border-bill/

It's wild that a guy from the UK is much more knowledgeable and has a more realistic grasp of American immigration issues than all of the liberals in here combined.  

28 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

there was a bill on the table. a bill that had everything border patrol and Republicans had been asking for. 

The tv has said this so many times that it's become gospel to these people.  

1 minute ago, Kz! said:

Not sure if you're serious or not, but they had a bill that was much more straight forward (actually was about the border and didn't include foreign aid). Had common sense measures like additional border wall funding, E-Verify for employers, more stringent penalties for those who overstay visas. Now, obviously it never stood a chance because it was a very clear attempt to limit illegal immigration. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/11/congress-texas-republicans-border-bill/

It's wild that a guy from the UK is much more knowledgeable and has a more realistic grasp of American immigration issues than all of the liberals in here combined.  

A bill so great that it narrowly passed a year ago, then dropped, and mysteriously never again used as the basis for future proposals especially now that Trump gave his marchnig orders to ensure nothing passes? Wow, that really contridicted my point about Trump being the reason why nothing will pass before the election. Be honest, you didn't read the date, did you?

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

A bill so great that it narrowly passed a year ago, then dropped, and mysteriously never again used as the basis for future proposals especially now that Trump gave his marchnig orders to ensure nothing passes? Wow, that really contridicted my point about Trump being the reason why nothing will pass before the election. Be honest, you didn't read the date, did you?

It did contradict your point. You said republicans haven't put forth a bill. They have. And it was far more straightforward than the Ukraine foreverwar aid package. It narrowly passed because Republicans have a narrow advantage in the house. Shockingly every democrat opposed a bill that would actually address the issue.  

10 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

A bill so great that it narrowly passed a year ago, then dropped, and mysteriously never again used as the basis for future proposals especially now that Trump gave his marchnig orders to ensure nothing passes? Wow, that really contridicted my point about Trump being the reason why nothing will pass before the election. Be honest, you didn't read the date, did you?

Additionally, that bill did little or nothing to address legal immigration. 

56 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

I'm saying that, as I did on my last post, if there was single topic bill there for immigration, the Dems can bluff the Reps - they get what they want or the get the optics of pointing at the Reps.  Anything with added conditions for Ukraine or Israel gives people an out not to vote on it.  You'd want to nail them down on a single bill.

Except that it was republicans who demanded the border and immigration be included in any Israel/Ukraine support bill.  That’s why both sides negotiated and agreed to the comprehensive deal before Trump killed it.  

Just now, Kz! said:

It did contradict your point. You said republicans haven't put forth a bill.

I didn't mean literally ever, I meant since Trump gave the orders to block anything since it would give Biden a win. He literally admits it and you keep acting like his words are irrelevant to what the GOP does. 

Quote

They have. And it was far more straightforward than the Ukraine foreverwar aid package. It narrowly passed because Republicans have a narrow advantage in the house. Shockingly every democrat opposed a bill that would actually address the issue.  

Uh huh, and if were propsed again tomorrow, would it pass again or no? 

2 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Additionally, that bill did little or nothing to address legal immigration. 

E-verify, a wall, and more stringent penalties on overstays don't address illegal immigration? I'm seriously trying to educate the dumbest cult of people on the planet right now. Feels bad.:lol: 

8 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Not sure if you're serious or not, but they had a bill that was much more straight forward (actually was about the border and didn't include foreign aid). Had common sense measures like additional border wall funding, E-Verify for employers, more stringent penalties for those who overstay visas. Now, obviously it never stood a chance because it was a very clear attempt to limit illegal immigration. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/11/congress-texas-republicans-border-bill/

It's wild that a guy from the UK is much more knowledgeable and has a more realistic grasp of American immigration issues than all of the liberals in here combined.  

That bill was completely DOA, and an exercise in political theatre.

First of all, you can't just pass a bill that says asylum seekers must "remain in Mexico" without, ya know, Mexico agreeing to it. And post Covid, they've rejected any attempts to re-instate the policy.

Secondly, that bill does nothing to solve the main problem: quickly processing and in most cases deporting asylum seekers that have overwhelmed the system.

Finally, that bill was passed entirely by Republicans - some of whom aren't even in Congress anymore - with absolutely no input from Democrats. You may see that as a "positive", but you're an idiot who has no clue about how representative government actually works. 

The bill that was passed by the Senate with bi-partisan support actually addresses the problems of too many asylum seekers and not enough capacity to process them & adds significantly to the enforcement of border security. 

Republicans said no. And they need to own that.

Just now, Kz! said:

E-verify, a wall, and more stringent penalties on overstays don't address illegal immigration? I'm seriously trying to educate the dumbest cult of people on the planet right now. Feels bad.:lol: 

read his post more carefully stunad.

I know "legal immigration" is something you frightened MAGAts have nightmares about, but it's also a big part of the issue. 

Also, Trump cares far more about helping Putin by denying Ukraine funding than he does any domestic issue, border or otherwise. It’s why we see the MAGAts in here pretending to be peaceniks and crying about forever wars they don’t really give a crap about other than their compulsion to dutifully repeat whatever BS Trump tells them to.

25 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I didn't mean literally ever, I meant since Trump gave the orders to block anything since it would give Biden a win. He literally admits it and you keep acting like his words are irrelevant to what the GOP does. 

Uh huh, and if were propsed again tomorrow, would it pass again or no? 

Oh so a bill proposed less than a year ago didn't fall into your timeframe, got it. No, they haven't passed anything since then. Kind of pointless at this point, right? Dems will only vote for a bill loaded with foreign aid handouts and more funding so asylum claims can be processed faster. Republicans want less illegal and legal immigration. It's a complete impasse by both parties.

27 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

That bill was completely DOA, and an exercise in political theatre.

First of all, you can't just pass a bill that says asylum seekers must "remain in Mexico" without, ya know, Mexico agreeing to it. And post Covid, they've rejected any attempts to re-instate the policy.

Secondly, that bill does nothing to solve the main problem: quickly processing and in most cases deporting asylum seekers that have overwhelmed the system.

"Quickly processing and in most cases deporting asylum seekers." I'm talking to a literal cult member. Honestly insane how stupid these people are.

That bill would have been far more effective against illegal immigration and everyone knows it. That's why it didn't stand a chance and was just "political theater." Grow up, riot kitchen.