Now people complain about mask....

🤣🤣🤣

3 hours ago, lynched1 said:

Now people complain about mask....

🤣🤣🤣

Nothing new

AOC in New Jersey, a match made in heaven.

On 6/15/2025 at 1:55 AM, Bill said:

Housing being an investment and institutional investors are a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. The investors are only there because the product itself is scarce, and the scarcer the product the more easy it is to make money off of it.

Institutional investors and viewing housing as an investment have absolutely zero to do with the overall problem. Its like blaming a headache on not taking Acetaminophen when there's a brain tumor. It's crap zoning and over regulation.

I think you may be looking too in depth at a tree when there's a whole forest out there.

Bill, it is not quite as simple as that. The website Strongtowns.org has a book called "Escaping the Housing Trap” (for a copy go to https://www.housingtrap.org) that goes through a lot of these systemic issues, and they call out one interesting dynamic that is one of those obvious-but-only-when-its-pointed-out-to-you kind of things:

We have created a system in america where "housing” is not just "shelter” but it is also "your primary net worth and savings vehicle” ( a financial instrument). The government systemicaly encouraged people to own homes, and created the 30 year mortgage so that when they retired they would own their homes outright and be much more secure financiall. Fannie and Freddie were part of that effort, etc.. "get people into homes so they will be economically secure” has been the gist of the intent.

And as time has gone on… since all americans’ net worth is tied up in their houses, we have also done everything possible to make sure that americans dont lose that value… this is the land of the current downpayment assistance schemes etc. The government is doing everything it can to just keep people being able to get on that housing ladder as the entire asset class continues to appreciate.

But as they point out if housing always goes up… and cant be allowed to come down (bailouts during the housing crisis etc) eventually you cant keep up with the high prices and anyone NOT on the property ladder gets left behind.

41 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Bill, it is not quite as simple as that. The website Strongtowns.org has a book called "Escaping the Housing Trap” (for a copy go to https://www.housingtrap.org) that goes through a lot of these systemic issues, and they call out one interesting dynamic that is one of those obvious-but-only-when-its-pointed-out-to-you kind of things:

We have created a system in america where "housing” is not just "shelter” but it is also "your primary net worth and savings vehicle” ( a financial instrument). The government systemicaly encouraged people to own homes, and created the 30 year mortgage so that when they retired they would own their homes outright and be much more secure financiall. Fannie and Freddie were part of that effort, etc.. "get people into homes so they will be economically secure” has been the gist of the intent.

And as time has gone on… since all americans’ net worth is tied up in their houses, we have also done everything possible to make sure that americans dont lose that value… this is the land of the current downpayment assistance schemes etc. The government is doing everything it can to just keep people being able to get on that housing ladder as the entire asset class continues to appreciate.

But as they point out if housing always goes up… and cant be allowed to come down (bailouts during the housing crisis etc) eventually you cant keep up with the high prices and anyone NOT on the property ladder gets left behind.

Yeah, man, I don't need some leftist 501c3 to try and convince me that it isn't actually about zoning and regulations.

If it were as they said, housing prices nationwide would move more in lockstep than they do, however they don't, because in some places they actually have volume. If coastal NIMBY's actually gave as much of an ish about their fellow man as they say they do, they wouldn't be as totalitarian as they are when it comes to a developer wanting to build an apartment complex in their neighborhood.

You can call it all you want, but it's simple supply and demand. Florida has had more net migration than California, however the housing prices in Florida still aren't as high relatively speaking. Florida always hasn't had a high level of housing prices as they currently have. Pre-covid they were dirt cheap. Then covid happened, which a: reduced volume with a lack of new builds, and b: increased demand with the rise in migration. If what you said were in any way true, the needle moving wouldn't have been as much as it was, but what you said was false, so it didn't. Yet, housing prices in Florida have begun to level because of there being absolutely no zoning to speak of and a ton of development, but if what you said was true, they wouldn't have leveled, but again what you said isn't, so they did.

Yes all these regulations. Can you believe my HOA won’t let me build a moat filled with an alligator. Not just any alligator but Wally. Maybe if he had a laser weapon ?

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Yeah, man, I don't need some leftist 501c3 to try and convince me that it isn't actually about zoning and regulations.

If it were as they said, housing prices nationwide would move more in lockstep than they do, however they don't, because in some places they actually have volume. If coastal NIMBY's actually gave as much of an ish about their fellow man as they say they do, they wouldn't be as totalitarian as they are when it comes to a developer wanting to build an apartment complex in their neighborhood.

You can call it all you want, but it's simple supply and demand. Florida has had more net migration than California, however the housing prices in Florida still aren't as high relatively speaking. Florida always hasn't had a high level of housing prices as they currently have. Pre-covid they were dirt cheap. Then covid happened, which a: reduced volume with a lack of new builds, and b: increased demand with the rise in migration. If what you said were in any way true, the needle moving wouldn't have been as much as it was, but what you said was false, so it didn't. Yet, housing prices in Florida have begun to level because of there being absolutely no zoning to speak of and a ton of development, but if what you said was true, they wouldn't have leveled, but again what you said isn't, so they did.

All good thoughts, but personal (or family/household) worries about one’s investment nest egg is much more a right wing process, rather than a left wing process. Being a NIMBY is a human process, neither left nor right.

Florida has lower prices because of California’s innovation (high tech) economy, which produces more personal economic opportunity, as well as more per capita wealth.

When you are looking at the price equation as you are, you are emphasizing the supply side of the supply:demand ratio and largely ignoring the demand side. Price rises (inflation) happen when "too many dollars chase too few goods.” California has much more of a too many dollars problem than Florida does.

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

Price rises (inflation) happen when "too many dollars chase too few goods.”

Gee, why do you think that is?

54 minutes ago, Bill said:

Gee, why do you think that is?

You are choosing to stay at 50,000 feet and not drilling down with robust micro economic thinking/questioning. Will prices rise if too many dollars are chasing the right inventory of goods? Will prices rise if the right inventory of dollars are chasing too few goods? Can different marketplaces have different levels of available dollars … and/or different inventory of goods?

California has a copious supply of too many dollars, but Florida does not. So no amount of supply increase in California is going to reduce housing prices. It will slow the increase, but prices will continue to rise.

The only way to address the affordability situation in California is to give the developers significant incentives for building homes that cost no more than $500,000 … still expensive for a young family, but a whole lot better than the $900,000 plus the homes developers are currently building. The developers can still get their target $500 per square foot price if they choose, by building the homes at 900 to 1,000 square feet. It becomes their choice whether to do so.

22 hours ago, lynched1 said:

Now people complain about mask....

🤣🤣🤣

And you are too Fing stupid to understand the difference.

50 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

And you are too Fing stupid to understand the difference.

That coming from you means absolutely nothing.

3 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

That coming from you means absolutely nothing.

Because……….You are both unaware, and too Fing stupid. Do you want to add to the list? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

You are choosing to stay at 50,000 feet and not drilling down with robust micro economic thinking/questioning. Will prices rise if too many dollars are chasing the right inventory of goods? Will prices rise if the right inventory of dollars are chasing too few goods? Can different marketplaces have different levels of available dollars … and/or different inventory of goods?

California has a copious supply of too many dollars, but Florida does not. So no amount of supply increase in California is going to reduce housing prices. It will slow the increase, but prices will continue to rise.

The only way to address the affordability situation in California is to give the developers significant incentives for building homes that cost no more than $500,000 … still expensive for a young family, but a whole lot better than the $900,000 plus the homes developers are currently building. The developers can still get their target $500 per square foot price if they choose, by building the homes at 900 to 1,000 square feet. It becomes their choice whether to do so.

"What forest?!?! There’s just trees everywhere!!”

You’re trying to take simple problems of ish government policy and making them out to be some complex bourgeois scheme. While your at it go take a look at Delaware and overlay the map of home prices on top of new home construction and try to realize that it’s a small enough market that it completely torpedoes your point.

Your posting has been condescending intellectual elitist coded enough. We don’t need you to help us plebes understand what a financial instrument is. Go take your tweed coat take somewhere else. We’re busy enough as it is dealing with the MAGAts.

17 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Because……….You are both unaware, and too Fing stupid. Do you want to add to the list? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

22 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

That coming from you means absolutely nothing.

2 hours ago, Bill said:

"What forest?!?! There’s just trees everywhere!!”

You’re trying to take simple problems of ish government policy and making them out to be some complex bourgeois scheme. While your at it go take a look at Delaware and overlay the map of home prices on top of new home construction and try to realize that it’s a small enough market that it completely torpedoes your point.

Your posting has been condescending intellectual elitist coded enough. We don’t need you to help us plebes understand what a financial instrument is. Go take your tweed coat take somewhere else. We’re busy enough as it is dealing with the MAGAts.

Condescending? Look in the mirror Foghat. You think like your namesake.

9 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

@Diehardfan did you vote for this behavior?

9 hours ago, mattwill said:

Condescending? Look in the mirror Foghat. You think like your namesake.

See, now you're CVON posting.

37 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

@Diehardfan did you vote for this behavior?

Yes. Few eggs will get cracked fixing what Biden did letting millions in.

4 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Yes. Few eggs will get cracked fixing what Biden did letting millions in.

This thought process is dangerous

5 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

This thought process is dangerous

Do I like it? Not ideal. Will crap happen? Yeah, hopefully minimized but yeah I voted for this. They need to go. Want to totally avoid it? Self deport. If people are upset then vote harder next time.

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Do I like it? Not ideal. Will crap happen? Yeah, hopefully minimized but yeah I voted for this. They need to go. Want to totally avoid it? Self deport. If people are upset then vote harder next time.

Same feeling if someone you knew like a family member received the same treatment? (not all brown people are the ones getting arrested)

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Same feeling if someone you knew like a family member received the same treatment? (not all brown people are the ones getting arrested)

If mine broke the law then yeah. I get what you are saying but I'm done caring. It needs to get fixed and things like that shouldn't slow it down. I voted for this.

27 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Same feeling if someone you knew like a family member received the same treatment? (not all brown people are the ones getting arrested)

To be fair, most of the stuff you dig up on twitter is far left propaganda anyway. I mean, do you really think a bunch of ICE dudes just saw a brown business owner and jumped him and started punching him in the head or do you think something happened before the 45 second video started?

They're NSDAPs. You can't reason with them.