7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Interesting discussion I stumbled into here.  The US is not alone in immigration issues; the vast majority of sovereign nations are not and have not been hospitable to immigrants.  

I think the immigration debate needs to follow and complement social welfare.  Do you want high taxes, free university, socialized and universal healthcare, food stamps for lobster dinners, complete food security, etc?  No country can afford to finance that with an open door immigration policy.  

Do you want low taxes, more of a ruthless capitalist government, private education, private healthcare, don't mind looking the other way at poverty...then you should favor a more lenient immigration policy in a country that presently has a labor shortage.  

The irony is that the vast majority of rank and file partisan politicians want it both ways.  

 

Agreed. As always, something in the middle sounds good.

If you live here and work here, you should have to pay taxes just like everyone else here. There’s too much money to be made by people using misclassified workers to cheat the tax system, primarily immigrant workers but not exclusively. There are plenty of US citizens working the same way to compete.

7 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Interesting discussion I stumbled into here.  The US is not alone in immigration issues; the vast majority of sovereign nations are not and have not been hospitable to immigrants.  

I think the immigration debate needs to follow and complement social welfare.  Do you want high taxes, free university, socialized and universal healthcare, food stamps for lobster dinners, complete food security, etc?  No country can afford to finance that with an open door immigration policy.  

Do you want low taxes, more of a ruthless capitalist government, private education, private healthcare, don't mind looking the other way at poverty...then you should favor a more lenient immigration policy in a country that presently has a labor shortage.  

The irony is that the vast majority of rank and file partisan politicians want it both ways.  

 

The problem is that the open door policy leads to the handout society.

The vast majority of the world will simply vote for other people’s money. Doesn’t matter if you’re talking about Europe, Central America, Africa or Asia. The US is unique in its culture, and it’s not because we have magic dirt that suddenly makes everyone into Ayn Rand.

So if you want to actually maintain a capitalist society, you can’t have a lenient immigration policy because the immigrants will change the electorate and vote for OPM.

2 hours ago, TEW said:

The problem is that the open door policy leads to the handout society.

Immediately to this straw man. Nowhere in his post did e45 advocate for "open” borders. Very few advocate for completely open borders. Even the people I know who do, also want a wall around our public benefits. 
 

You reveal what I already knew anyway. You don’t have an issue with immigration as long as they act think and vote like you. 

9 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

Agreed. As always, something in the middle sounds good.

If you live here and work here, you should have to pay taxes just like everyone else here. There’s too much money to be made by people using misclassified workers to cheat the tax system, primarily immigrant workers but not exclusively. There are plenty of US citizens working the same way to compete.

Fallacy of the middle

get the worst of both

27 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Immediately to this straw man. Nowhere in his post did e45 advocate for "open” borders. Very few advocate for completely open borders. Even the people I know who do, also want a wall around our public benefits. 
 

You reveal what I already knew anyway. You don’t have an issue with immigration as long as they act think and vote like you. 

Illegals arent immigration

44 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Immediately to this straw man. Nowhere in his post did e45 advocate for "open” borders. Very few advocate for completely open borders. Even the people I know who do, also want a wall around our public benefits. 

If you’d stop spazzing out you’d realize E45 liked my post and understood perfectly well that I wasn’t claiming he wanted literal open borders. 

 

Quote

You reveal what I already knew anyway. You don’t have an issue with immigration as long as they act think and vote like you.

What kind of moron would want his political adversaries to immigrate to his country by the millions and vote against him?   

I guess you wouldn’t mind millions of NSDAPs immigrating here every year and voting?  

14 minutes ago, TEW said:

What kind of moron would want his political adversaries to immigrate to his country by the millions and vote against him?   

I guess you wouldn’t mind millions of NSDAPs immigrating here every year and voting?  

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Illegals arent immigration

The illegal problem is a direct result of too restrictive immigration policies. 
 

1 hour ago, TEW said:

If you’d stop spazzing out you’d realize E45 liked my post and understood perfectly well that I wasn’t claiming he wanted literal open borders.

But you opened your reply to him screeching about open borders anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, TEW said:

The problem is that the open door policy leads to the handout society.

The vast majority of the world will simply vote for other people’s money. Doesn’t matter if you’re talking about Europe, Central America, Africa or Asia. The US is unique in its culture, and it’s not because we have magic dirt that suddenly makes everyone into Ayn Rand.

So if you want to actually maintain a capitalist society, you can’t have a lenient immigration policy because the immigrants will change the electorate and vote for OPM.

 

1 hour ago, TEW said:

If you’d stop spazzing out you’d realize E45 liked my post and understood perfectly well that I wasn’t claiming he wanted literal open borders. 

 

What kind of moron would want his political adversaries to immigrate to his country by the millions and vote against him?   

I guess you wouldn’t mind millions of NSDAPs immigrating here every year and voting?  

So when did your families ancestors migrate here?

1 hour ago, TEW said:

What kind of moron would want his political adversaries to immigrate to his country by the millions and vote against him?   

I guess you wouldn’t mind millions of NSDAPs immigrating here every year and voting?  

Unlike the far left and right, my thoughts on immigration have zero to do with politics or votes.
I also do not consider those that do not think exactly like me as adversaries.

Time to militarize the border and quit Fing around in Europe 

4 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

Time to militarize the border and quit Fing around in Europe 

It’s scary for you isn’t it?

 

44 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

The illegal problem is a direct result of too restrictive immigration policies. 
 

False

2 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Fallacy of the middle

get the worst of both

Fallacy according to who? You? ONLY the worst no possible good?

Sorry, but I don’t want the extreme of either option of socialism or unchecked capitalism.

1 minute ago, MidMoFo said:

Fallacy according to who? You? ONLY the worst no possible good?

Sorry, but I don’t want the extreme of either option of socialism or unchecked capitalism.

Tell me you dont understand this without saying you dont understand this…

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

Tell me you dont understand this without saying you dont understand this…

Do you have a word count restriction?

I DONT LIKE EXTREMISM OF ANY KIND.

Do you understand how that is directly related to freedom?

4 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

Do you have a word count restriction?

I DONT LIKE EXTREMISM OF ANY KIND.

Do you understand how that is directly related to freedom?

Not about freedom. This is economics. Which you dont understand, obviously. Thus my post 

28 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

It’s scary for you isn’t it?

The self destruction of the global super power by an invasion of an inferior population. Yes.

Personally we should stop screwing around with Europe and take over South America. They've failed.

 

 

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

Not about freedom. This is economics. Which you dont understand, obviously. Thus my post 

It is about freedom, which you don’t understand. You want to be owned by corporations instead of government and not smart enough to see its still being owned.

8 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

The self destruction of the global super power by an invasion of an inferior population. Yes.

 

 

The sky is falling…

 

8 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

It is about freedom, which you don’t understand. You want to be owned by corporations instead of government and not smart enough to see its still being owned.

You should sit this one out

or lay off the white flaw

or both

2 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

The sky is falling…

It certainly is in South America ain't it? 🤔

I laugh everytime I see one of those flags hanging from a rearview mirror 

1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said:

But you opened your reply to him screeching about open borders anyway. 

I never even said open borders dude.  

1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said:

Unlike the far left and right, my thoughts on immigration have zero to do with politics or votes.
I also do not consider those that do not think exactly like me as adversaries.

You’ve lost the plot then…

Policies have consequences. Immigration policies have consequences. The aggregate voting of immigrants has consequences.

When you bring in immigrants, you are quite literally changing the electorate of the country.

But, yeah, sure, you’d be totally fine with millions of NSDAPs immigrating here every year, because you wouldn’t think of them as adversaries.  

1 hour ago, MidMoFo said:

 

So when did your families ancestors migrate here?

Fathers side, as far back as colonial times. Mom’s side, late 19th/early 20th century.