February 25, 20241 yr On 2/23/2024 at 7:46 PM, mayanh8 said: It's not dumb from a "this is how free markets work in a vacuum" standpoint. You're absolutely right there. It's just dumb from a reality standpoint. So in actual reality you do not believe there is any amount of money you could pay people to become farmers that would, in fact, entice them to become farmers?
February 25, 20241 yr 13 hours ago, Tnt4philly said: Farming in this country has always depended on immigrant and migrant labor. No, that is a lie. 13 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I'm not familiar enough with what a farmhand does to know how automation would play into things. So much of modern farming is automated not to a high degree, but wage pressures may create a market for further automation. It's funny to see the same folks who claim higher minimum wages will exacerbate cause job loss to automation when fast food workers are the subject, but wage inflation to "give Americans the jobs migrants are taking" is just sound policy 😆 It is more a question of what kind of farming you are talking about. There is a big difference between corn, hardwood, blueberries, etc and the amount of automation and labor varies. But that said, farming is a fairly high skill job. You need trade type skills to work with the equipment, you need the knowledge of how to fertilize the soil, you need to set up plans to rotate crops or plan ahead for tree harvesting schedules, etc etc etc. Yes, rising wages would at some point make automation more economical. So what? Fewer farmers producing more goods with greater personal wealth while keeping out lots of net negative people from our country is a GOOD thing both economically and socially. This pathological obsession to import millions of people who will make our country tangibly, measurably, objectively worse is pure insanity.
February 25, 20241 yr 14 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Yes, what's holding back young workers from clamoring to work on farms is ... wages. When the only tool you have is a hammer..... Yes, literally, it is wages. If you hold all other inputs of the opportunity cost fixed, and just increase wages enough, I guarantee you that young Americans would flock to become farmers. Sure, they might rather make TikTok videos all day, but if you start offering them a million bucks a year I guarantee you won’t have any shortage of American kids wanting to become farmers.
February 25, 20241 yr 13 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Average wages for farmhands in the US is around $16/hr based on a cursory Google search. Let's say locking down the border and kicking out all the non-citizen migrants forces farms to double the salary. Even triple it. And let's say for argument's sake that all these Americans clamoring for menial jobs at good wages decide to move out to the Midwest and forgo other options like plumbing and carpentry that likewise are facing a labor shortage and wouldn't typically require the kind of physical and cultural dislocation becoming a farm worker does. What happens then? Cost of producing cash crops rises. Cost of US grown food rises. Soybean exports to China crash. But hey, at least we kept the beaners out right? Prices will rise on cash crops? Good. The cost of goods and wages will not be artificially suppressed. Soybean exports to China collapse? Good. Our enemy goes hungry and we cut another link in the ghastly Chimerica arrangement. We get to keep out foreigners who increase our crime rates and are a net drain on public treasuries too? Good. I’m failing to see the problem here.
February 25, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, TEW said: This pathological obsession to import millions of people who will make our country tangibly, measurably, objectively worse is pure insanity. I don't know man. Quality, cheap labor that leads to lower food prices feels like a tangibly, measurably, objectively good thing.
February 25, 20241 yr 10 hours ago, TEW said: So in actual reality you do not believe there is any amount of money you could pay people to become farmers that would, in fact, entice them to become farmers? There's no amount of money that owners of farmland/coops or management companies will pay, in reality, that will ever convince 2.4M people to leave the modern convenience of civilization to move to Iowa. You know this. That's the world we live in. But, sure, in your imagined scorched earth, give no ground dystopian free market society I have every confidence you'd make it work.
February 25, 20241 yr TEW loves capitalism until it means more brown people get to work here, then he becomes Karl Marx overnight. Hate to see it.
February 25, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, mayanh8 said: There's no amount of money that owners of farmland/coops or management companies will pay, in reality, that will ever convince 2.4M people to leave the modern convenience of civilization to move to Iowa. You know this. That's the world we live in. But, sure, in your imagined scorched earth, give no ground dystopian free market society I have every confidence you'd make it work. "In reality” the market dictates the price. Even with labor. Cut off the artificial supply of labor from foreigners and the price of labor will rise until you reach equilibrium. Then the price of those goods will rise to reach equilibrium. THAT is reality. Yes, lots of people will leave where they live to work farms for the right price, just like lots of people work on oil platforms. The difference is the labor price.
February 25, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, mayanh8 said: I don't know man. Quality, cheap labor that leads to lower food prices feels like a tangibly, measurably, objectively good thing. The problem, again, is that they are a net cost to society. You might have marginally lower corn and soy prices, but each household of theirs is a ~$9,000 hole in the government budget, they balloon rent prices, etc etc. So, no, they are not a tangible benefit to prices.
February 25, 20241 yr Former Panama border chief Oriel Ortega claims the United Nations in behind the chaos and invasion at the US border with Mexico. A report in November found that the Biden regime is spending $451 billion a year for illegal alien and asylum seeker benefits.
February 26, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, The_Omega said: What happens when animals are allowed to run wild.
February 26, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, lynched1 said: What happens when animals are allowed to run wild. ICE had a detainer on him in NY, but was released before it was filed. Looks like he couldn’t have been deported anyway. https://www.wsj.com/world/americas/venezuela-halts-flights-of-deported-migrants-from-u-s-and-mexico-962f6149
February 26, 20241 yr First responders in a Texas town are struggling to cope with the trauma of recovering bodies from the Rio Grande
February 26, 20241 yr 41 minutes ago, lynched1 said: Why recover the bodies? Stop creatures from you from having sex with the corpses.
February 26, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Toastrel said: Stop creatures from you from having sex with the corpses.
February 27, 20241 yr On 2/24/2024 at 8:22 AM, Tnt4philly said: Farming in this country has always depended on immigrant and migrant labor. On 2/24/2024 at 8:41 AM, JohnSnowsHair said: Average wages for farmhands in the US is around $16/hr based on a cursory Google search. Let's say locking down the border and kicking out all the non-citizen migrants forces farms to double the salary. Even triple it. And let's say for argument's sake that all these Americans clamoring for menial jobs at good wages decide to move out to the Midwest and forgo other options like plumbing and carpentry that likewise are facing a labor shortage and wouldn't typically require the kind of physical and cultural dislocation becoming a farm worker does. What happens then? Cost of producing cash crops rises. Cost of US grown food rises. Soybean exports to China crash. But hey, at least we kept the beaners out right? On 2/25/2024 at 7:50 AM, mayanh8 said: I don't know man. Quality, cheap labor that leads to lower food prices feels like a tangibly, measurably, objectively good thing. It'll never stop being hilarious how quickly you can get sheetlibs to admit that the only potential benefit to importing millions of illegals is so they can be paid slave wages to keep food prices down. Super woke guys, great job. They're so Fing stupid.
February 27, 20241 yr 14 minutes ago, Kz! said: It'll never stop being hilarious how quickly you can get sheetlibs to admit that the only potential benefit to importing millions of illegals is so they can be paid slave wages to keep food prices down. Super woke guys, great job. They're so Fing stupid. Step 1: no more cheap labor Step 2: impose a 10% tax on all imports Step 3: ? Step 4: very affordable prices for all Americans
February 27, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: Step 1: no more cheap labor Step 2: impose a 10% tax on all imports Step 3: ? Step 4: very affordable prices for all Americans I know, we just can't get by without unlimited cheap labor from the third world. We'd all starve to death! They really are this stupid, folks.
February 27, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Kz! said: I know, we just can't get by without unlimited cheap labor from the third world. We'd all starve to death! They really are this stupid, folks. I know, we just can't get by without...increasing the price of everything we eat 10 fold
February 27, 20241 yr 46 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: I know, we just can't get by without...increasing the price of everything we eat 10 fold Kz posts that nonsense......does he not understand what inflation would look like without that cheap labor? What a dope.
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