Eagles restructured Hargrave.

[Mike030270]

People see these restructures and think Howie is a genius and magician. He’s just ruining future cap years to get out of the current cap mess that he’s created

[brkmsn]

9 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

We're not solving the issue, again my go to example is the Saints, in a bigger cap hole than we were but they're getting under it by extending and restructuring young all pro level performers that they've brought in over the last 5 years and can contribute for medium term,  that is not the same as us trying to turn salary into bonuses so they can prorate more money to years that a player has between slim and no chance of contributing to the team in order to creep under the cap by the skin of our teeth.

If we were talking about reducing the cap hit on 26 year olds who've been All Pro or to the Pro Bowl the last 3 years by extending them for another 4 years, I'd give Howie credit, but we're not, as NOTW says we're extending Reid and Kelly era vets because we've drafted average starters and back up level players for most of the last decade. 

The Saints freed up about $24 million cap space from Brees dropping his base salary to the minimum. The move still creates dead money and a cap hit over 2022 and 2023. Tampa just "extended" Tom Brady in order to free up some space this year. How many years did they add to the 44-year-old's salary cap hit?

Now, in defense of Howie, he's been doing this with guys we have, guys we know, that are still some of the best at their position. Hargrave (which this thread is about) isn't exactly an old guy and he's within that parameter you mentioned. Sure, the restructure probably would have been avoided had 2020 not affected the cap the way it did. It was an unforeseen  occurrence that forced some additional restructuring at the present, that will now have to be factored in the future. This will mainly affect us in free agency for the next couple years, which means we have to draft well and/or develop unproven players during this stretch.

Here's the deal ... I know this isn't ideal. I know we haven't gotten a lot of production out of many of our recent draft picks. I understand that borrowing from the future requires payment. However, I see this as normal around the league and simply don't think it's as big an "issue" as, I guess, you do. 

On a somewhat related side note, noticing how politically charged the NFL has become, and with owners (especially Lurie) trying to really come off as a pro-player voice that cares, I can see the next CBA really favoring the players in a much greater jump than ever before. In that event, the kicked up can will find itself at the intersection of Trivial St. and Apathy Ave. 

[Traveler Vic]

11 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

  This franchise is in the midst of exactly that.  A downward trend.  

Get over Wentz leaving and take a chill pill. I see a lot of changes. You do not know that everything will be worse. It could go either way... up or down. Unknown does not mean bad.

[eglz1]

22 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

Completely agree! But we got Howie. Like a bad X-wife that is always around and we can not get rid off. If it was up to fans...Howie should be crucified. 

I for one would not want to see Howie crucified. I think he should get a new position, perhaps Executive Assistant General Manager to Jerry Jones, Dallas Cowboys. That team has shown too much competence in roster building. Time to inject some Howie.

 

[Random Reglar]

According to Spotrac,  the Eagles are currently $8.5 Million over the Top 51 Salary Cap.

There are 5 players who can be restructured or cut, or something, to get under the cap.

Fletcher Cox,  Brandon Graham (who is said to be restructuring), Lane Johnson,  Zach Ertz, Derek Barnett. 

[RememberTheKoy]

14 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

According to Spotrac,  the Eagles are currently $8.5 Million over the Top 51 Salary Cap.

There are 5 players who can be restructured or cut, or something, to get under the cap.

Fletcher Cox,  Brandon Graham (who is said to be restructuring), Lane Johnson,  Zach Ertz, Derek Barnett. 

 

Regarding Lane Johnson:

 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

8 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Regarding Lane Johnson:

 

 

To be fair they've restructured him many times and no doubt will again in the future. 

[Traveler Vic]

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

To be fair they've restructured him many times and no doubt will again in the future. 

I think it is safe to say that they will not restructure Lane anymore.. because he is already been Restructured up to his maximum shelf life as a player. But Eagles have many other options to get under the cap this year. Next Year cap is going up and we will be fine.

[Traveler Vic]

14 hours ago, eglz1 said:

I for one would not want to see Howie crucified. I think he should get a new position, perhaps Executive Assistant General Manager to Jerry Jones, Dallas Cowboys. That team has shown too much competence in roster building. Time to inject some Howie.

 

I love the sarcasm...but it is not an option..because Fans do not own the Eagles. Mr. L does. Hence Mr. L keeps Howie around..no matter what.

[Traveler Vic]

14 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Did I say anything about Wentz?   If you think it’s only about him, you’re blind.  

You stated that the franchise is in downward trend. Is this prediction based on facts? Do you have any proof? I say the future is unknown. I like the possibility of Hurts and I am willing to quietly observe next year and see what happens when there is a mini camp, practice time with the receivers, and hopefully a healthy rebuilt offensive line around him. Franchise is evolving...and that does not mean necessarily that it will go down.

[Traveler Vic]

On 3/11/2021 at 8:13 PM, eagle45 said:

Looking forward to paying Hargrave $20m in 2026 to be our #3 DT.

FYI. In 2020 Hargrave signed a 3 year deal. 

[Hawkeye]

On 3/12/2021 at 7:52 AM, brkmsn said:

What teams don't do this? When the Eagles do it, "Howie's just kicking the can down the road again." Then there are teams like Detroit, Miami, Jacksonville, NYJ, that don't try to maintain talent --- do we really want to become one of those just so we can say we have cap space before the beginning of every league year?

Structuring and restructuring contracts is normal. Borrowing from tomorrow is normal. Pessimism in Philly is normal (acting like we must not actually have talent and pretending all injuries are career ending, age 30 means you're done, and how you performed or produced in the last season defines your future because improvement is impossible.)

Good post.  The whole NFL cap system is designed to allow teams to be flexible in an environment where the economics change year to year.

And remember it’s strictly accounting and has nothing to do with how much they actually pay a guy.  For example, even though Wentz’s trade  costs the Eagles $34 million in cap space, the team saves $25 million in cash money.  That’s what really matters to the owners.

[eglz1]

3 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

I love the sarcasm...but it is not an option..because Fans do not own the Eagles. Mr. L does. Hence Mr. L keeps Howie around..no matter what.

We can dream .........

[eglz1]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye said:

Good post.  The whole NFL cap system is designed to allow teams to be flexible in an environment where the economics change year to year.

And remember it’s strictly accounting and has nothing to do with how much they actually pay a guy.  For example, even though Wentz’s trade  costs the Eagles $34 million in cap space, the team saves $25 million in cash money.  That’s what really matters to the owners.

This is a point that not everyone grasps judging by some posts. The cap, as I understand it is a mechanism to prevent a handful of rich teams dominating the league by buying up all the top tier talent. I think the cap is one reason that the Cleveland Browns and Buffalo Bill were in the playoffs this past season and NY Giants and SF 49ers were not. It takes more than a bloated check book to field a playoff caliber team.

[IFB DOG]

On 3/12/2021 at 8:42 AM, 4for4EaglesNest said:

If that POS was so good at managing the cap then how did we get so far over the cap in the first place?  Doing what he is doing now.  Kicking the can down the street. Problem is, his garbage drafting and moronic contracts to old injured players is what got him into this situation.  How is that managing the cap?  The Eagles have never been that far over the cap.....ever.    That's like cleaning up after a fire you caused but saying, "hey, I did a good job of sweeping up the ashes".  

 

Moronic and tired argument.  

You guys just don't get it. This is the way NFL contracts are set up. The later years are almost ALWAYS escalating.  It's to encourage the player to maintain their level of play AND reduce malcontents. It also maintains a particular PERCENTAGE of cap space for a player.

Voidable years are going to be huge this year BECAUSE OF THE SCAMDEMIC.

Nobody in Tampa is freaking out over Brady's new contract.... you're about to see the absolute largest TV deal ever signed and its going to jump the cap enormously. Think 2016 NBA-level changes. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

8 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

I think it is safe to say that they will not restructure Lane anymore.. because he is already been Restructured up to his maximum shelf life as a player. But Eagles have many other options to get under the cap this year. Next Year cap is going up and we will be fine.

I mean... You may be right but I wouldn't want to make any bets about it. 

[Traveler Vic]

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Yeah. I have proof.  They won 4 games this past season.  Which was less than the year before.  They have a lot less good young players on the roster than they did 3 years ago.  That’s a downward trend.  They were in the worst cap situation this coming season than any year for a long long time.  That’s a downward trend.  They are old at O line.  They are old at D line.  They are devoid of talent in the defensive secondary.  They have no running back depth.  They have no QB depth.  And, to get under the cap they have hurt their future cap situation for 2022.  None of that is opinion.   It has gone down.  Not a question of it will go down.  It already has.  You’re blind.  Or dumb.  

 

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 Yeah.  I don’t get it.     No.  You and Howie don’t get it.  But considering your calling it the "scandemic” that’s proof enough to me of how much a moron you are.   

Apparently at least 2 people on this post are blind, dumb, morons according to you. So what does your psychiatrist says about your anger issues? Take any Lithium for being bipolar? Perhaps you should choose to refrain from insulting other opinions.

[NOTW]

On 3/12/2021 at 2:38 PM, Traveler Vic said:

you can not plan for the Pandemic. Howie is doing the best he could. As long as he does not screw up a draft..I am OK.

I have some bad news for you...

[Don Corleone]

14 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

I think it is safe to say that they will not restructure Lane anymore.. because he is already been Restructured up to his maximum shelf life as a player. But Eagles have many other options to get under the cap this year. Next Year cap is going up and we will be fine.

LOL if Howie can get cap space by restructuring Lane, he'll do it. He traded for a 29 year old Slay and gave him a 3 year extension, look at the situations with DeSean and Alshon, he doesn't give a damn about going beyond a player's max shelf life.

[Bwestbrook36]

1 minute ago, Don Corleone said:

LOL if Howie can get cap space by restructuring Lane, he'll do it. He traded for a 29 year old Slay and gave him a 3 year extension, look at the situations with DeSean and Alshon, he doesn't give a damn about going beyond a player's max shelf life.

What the actual F!! Hi Don!!!! 

[Don Corleone]

1 minute ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

What the actual F!! Hi Don!!!! 

[Don Corleone]

Further proof about Howie not caring about a players max shelf life is him trying to extend Ertz, and if it not for Ertz turning the offer down and wanting a better deal, Howie would have been saddled with that albatross of a contract.

[Bwestbrook36]

8 minutes ago, Don Corleone said:

 

We have lots to talk about!!

[IFB DOG]

3 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 Yeah.  I don’t get it.     No.  You and Howie don’t get it.  But considering your calling it the "scandemic” that’s proof enough to me of how much a moron you are.   

When do we stop? First it was PPE. Then deaths. Then vents. Then beds. Then deaths again. Now cases. 

Take some personal responsibility. Instead, those with cash on the side bought your retirement at a 34% discount led by forced government shutdowns and loss of jobs.

But don't worry, Amazon had their largest YEARLY profit ever... in a SINGLE quarter!

What's the saying around here...

"WE'RE FINE THERE!"

[Traveler Vic]

3 hours ago, Don Corleone said:

LOL if Howie can get cap space by restructuring Lane, he'll do it. He traded for a 29 year old Slay and gave him a 3 year extension, look at the situations with DeSean and Alshon, he doesn't give a damn about going beyond a player's max shelf life.

Hi Don! Howie is not the most popular guy in Philadelphia, but behind him is the owner. Howie is a bagman. When the Owner decides to play Jerry Jones and select a player he likes, he sends inn Howie. No one likes when the choices are contrary to scout opinions...scouts who have been studying players for years.and here comes Johnny come lately management and spoils everything. The only good silver lining to the Pandemic that I see, is this year because of the limitations, Howie will be forced to lean more on the opinions of the scouts and we hopefully will have a very productive draft.