August 2, 20232 yr The 45 pages that skewer Trump’s bid to destroy American democracy https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/02/donald-trump-indictment-pages-jack-smith-january-6-election-2020 Quote "Why didn’t they do this 2.5 years ago?” the former president asked peevishly on Tuesday, shortly before the indictment came down. The answer lies in the document itself: in its painstaking command of detail and in the cool, crisp legal language deployed by special counsel Jack Smith to make his case. This is the third time that Trump has been criminally indicted, and to some extent the shock value has worn off. Much of the content of the grand jury indictment filed in a federal court in Washington DC is familiar. But no one can doubt the significance of its contents. For the first time in US history, legal charges have been brought against a president for attempting to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power that until 6 January 2021 had stood as a pillar of American values since a defeated John Adams quietly snuck out of the capital on 4 March 1801. It’s taken two and a half years, sure, but Smith wastes no time in getting to the point. The second sentence of the indictment reads: "The defendant lost the 2020 presidential election”, taking us straight to that place where Trump so consequentially refused to go – the acceptance that he was a loser. By the fourth sentence, it is clear that Smith has no intention of mincing his words. He rolls out the L-word – "lies” – with an ease which belies the months of angst that the editors of American newspapers went through before they felt comfortable enough to attach it to Trump. Later, he accuses the former president of "fraud”, a charged word given the sequence of events. It was precisely that word that Trump used as the foundation stone of his bid to overturn the election – his lie that the 2020 election was riddled with fraud –and now it was being directed back at him. Smith portrays the former president as a man who was prepared to tear down everything to stay in office. "Despite having lost, the Defendant was determined to remain in power.” Why did Smith wait 2 1/2 years? Unlike the idiotic Democrat rush to impeach, doomed to failure, Smith is meticulous, and dotted every i, and crossed every t.
August 2, 20232 yr 4 hours ago, Toastrel said: There is voting for the best candidate, and ignoring party. And here is the issue. Vote for a jackass, but one that sides more with my beliefs, or vote for the other party that is less jackass but goes against most of my beliefs? The Republicans need to find someone to run that is not a complete jackass. Just a normal political one.
August 2, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, Captain F said: And here is the issue. Vote for a jackass, but one that sides more with my beliefs, or vote for the other party that is less jackass but goes against most of my beliefs? The Republicans need to find someone to run that is not a complete jackass. Just a normal political one. One candidate will leave when his term is up, the other one won't. Pretty simple if you ask me.
August 2, 20232 yr 9 minutes ago, Captain F said: And here is the issue. Vote for a jackass, but one that sides more with my beliefs, or vote for the other party that is less jackass but goes against most of my beliefs? The Republicans need to find someone to run that is not a complete jackass. Just a normal political one. There are plenty in the field that are relatively normal conservatives. Republicans don't want that which is why Trump's dominating. The current position of the party is big government authoritarianism, not the conservatism you likely identify with. So do they really side with your beliefs?
August 2, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: There are plenty in the field that are relatively normal conservatives. Republicans don't want that which is why Trump's dominating. The current position of the party is big government authoritarianism, not the conservatism you likely identify with. So do they really side with your beliefs? It's not a true shift in ideology. It's a complete lack of any ideology or guiding principles, because the GOP is basically now a cult of personality focused on one man. The Republican platform is simply whatever Donald Trump says it is (the actual 2020 party platform at the convention).
August 2, 20232 yr 20 minutes ago, Captain F said: And here is the issue. Vote for a jackass, but one that sides more with my beliefs, or vote for the other party that is less jackass but goes against most of my beliefs? The Republicans need to find someone to run that is not a complete jackass. Just a normal political one. What exactly is Trumps platform? Since he sides with your beliefs, you seem like the guy that can finally explain it to me.
August 2, 20232 yr Just now, vikas83 said: It's not a true shift in ideology. It's a complete lack of any ideology or guiding principles, because the GOP is basically now a cult of personality focused on one man. The Republican platform is simply whatever Donald Trump says it is (the actual 2020 party platform at the convention). It's who Trump is (maybe for self-serving reasons, not ideological reasons, but the results are the same) so it's who the party that's about to nominate him for the 3rd straight time is. Whether or not the party itself believes it is sort of immaterial. I'd actually argue that most of the rank and file wholeheartedly believe in populist handouts/authoritarianism. I get that the intellectual class doesn't, but they're largely irrelevant.
August 2, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: It's who Trump is (maybe for self-serving reasons, not ideological reasons, but the results are the same) so it's who the party that's about to nominate him for the 3rd straight time is. Whether or not the party itself believes it is sort of immaterial. I'd actually argue that most of the rank and file wholeheartedly believe in populist handouts/authoritarianism. I get that the intellectual class doesn't, but they're largely irrelevant. Trump has no actual beliefs, ideology or principles. He'd support Medicare for all or universal basic income tomorrow if it would make people say nice things about him. He's a child seeking attention and approval from those he claims to despise (e.g., the media). He only cares about himself and expanding his own power, and his voters only want HIM to have that kind of power. They'd revolt over any other person (Republican or Democrat) trying to have the level of authoritarian power they support for their orange God. It's just a cult.
August 2, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: He only cares about himself and expanding his own power, and his voters only want HIM to have that kind of power. Right but that’s the reason he’s a big government authoritarian. It serves that purpose. What he believes in is sort of irrelevant. What he actually is is all that matters.
August 2, 20232 yr 10 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Anyone who thinks Trump is the best candidate has a serious mental issue. He is not a terrible choice. He is a con man who tried to overthrow our government, because he's a sore loser. I was talking about Biden being the best candidate but a terrible choice.
August 2, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Bill said: Honesty if you look at it this is the late 19th century politics all over again. I hate it. Yeah, the fact that despite claims to the contrary this is not "unprecedented" give me comfort. Counter argument is that social media wasn't a thing in the 19th so..
August 2, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, Toastrel said: If you don't believe us, believe Mike Pence!! MAGA voters: So what. The guy's a freakin Never Trumper
August 3, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, GreenReaper said: I was talking about Biden being the best candidate but a terrible choice. Under normal circumstances Biden would get destroyed in an election.
August 3, 20232 yr 19 hours ago, Captain F said: And here is the issue. Vote for a jackass, but one that sides more with my beliefs, or vote for the other party that is less jackass but goes against most of my beliefs? The Republicans need to find someone to run that is not a complete jackass. Just a normal political one. 3rd party
August 3, 20232 yr Author 20 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: 3rd party and vote for someone other than cheeto in the repug primary.
August 3, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: and vote for someone other than cheeto in the repug primary. Thought that was a given?
August 3, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, toolg said: what's funny is the WSJ editorials are regularly panned by MAGA commenters, despite the editorial board frequently going out of its way to slam Biden and exonerate Trump. occasionally the WSJ editorial board throws a little shade Trump's way, but by and large they have become shills.
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