BKLYNYG Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 31 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: I think a true franchise Qb shines enough for you to know in 4 years no matter what the circumstances are. See: Justin Herbert or Justin Fields. Herbert is next level, no doubt. Fields may turn out to be a good QB but he’s showed nothing as a passer so far. Not sure why you included him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawkins4prez Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 45 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said: Herbert is next level, no doubt. Fields may turn out to be a good QB but he’s showed nothing as a passer so far. Not sure why you included him. Because he has shown flashes of being able to carry a bad team. In 4 years Jones has played well here and there but never carried the Giants on his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 2 hours ago, dawkins4prez said: Because he has shown flashes of being able to carry a bad team. In 4 years Jones has played well here and there but never carried the Giants on his back. Daniel Jones had 3 games of 120+ rating and 4+ TDs in his rookie year. He also had the 100+ last minute win Tampa game for his first start. Jones showed more in his first 2 years than Fields has so far. Fields has been a much better runner at times. I don't like Jones and did not at any point and I think Fields may develop into a very good QB but Jones showed more on the field at this point in his career. The knock on Jones was that he was 8-18 and had too many turnovers. 22 picks and 29 fumbles in 26 starts. (2.12 turnovers per game) So far Fields is 5-17 and has 20 picks and 25 fumbles in 22 starts. (2.05 turnovers per game) I'm not seeing any teams being carried by any backs. He treats the ball like he hates it slightly less than Daniel Jones hates it is not exactly an endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 2 hours ago, dawkins4prez said: Because he has shown flashes of being able to carry a bad team. In 4 years Jones has played well here and there but never carried the Giants on his back. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I agree with the skipper. I’ve seen nothing from Fields outside his ability to run. But honestly, that means nothing. People wrote Allen off after his mediocre start. People left Tua for dead. Hurts looked decent last year, but many thought the Eagles would be in the market for a QB after this year. I personally would like to see one more year of Jones with stable leadership around him, but I would understand if Daboll and Schoen simply wanted to bring in their guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 20 hours ago, BKLYNYG said: I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I agree with the skipper. I’ve seen nothing from Fields outside his ability to run. To be fair he doesn't have a lot to work with on that offense though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 @BKLYNYG @UK_EaglesFan89 Its rough learning to play QB in the NFL. Even Trevor Lawrence has been very up and down in 2 seasons. Its fair to expect a big move in year 3 (or at least some steady improvement) but in Jones case the team was still really bad. Lets see what Chicago does around Fields next year. Most of my negative reaction to Daniel Jones was based on the way too early draft spot and anointing that the NY media poured on him. The truth is we have no idea if he is any good. That's more on Gettleman than Jones though IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, SkippyX said: @BKLYNYG @UK_EaglesFan89 Its rough learning to play QB in the NFL. Even Trevor Lawrence has been very up and down in 2 seasons. Its fair to expect a big move in year 3 (or at least some steady improvement) but in Jones case the team was still really bad. Lets see what Chicago does around Fields next year. Most of my negative reaction to Daniel Jones was based on the way too early draft spot and anointing that the NY media poured on him. The truth is we have no idea if he is any good. That's more on Gettleman than Jones though IMO. Yup, agreed. The situation a QB steps into is so important. The Eagles FO deserves a ton of credit (Howie should be executive of the year again) for doing a masterful job of building the team around Hurts. I hope our execs follow the same path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 I wonder if next year's Giants can be this years Eagles. We'll probably end up with 9 wins or so, same as the Eagles last year. Jones is having a similar year this year to Hurts last year. We have some really good foundational players on the OL (Thomas, Neal), DL (Dex, Williams, Thibs, Ojulari) and in the secondary (Adoree Jackson, McKinney, Love, Belton). Lots of draft picks and a good amount of cap space. If only we could borrow Howie to score some FAs we'd be in great shape, although I do trust this current Giants FO. We need a #1 WR, DBs and inside LBs. I think the division might be even better next year. The Giants and Commanders have dealt with a bunch of injuries. I expect both to get better. The Eagles are pretty much guaranteed double digit wins and Dallas should be tough as well. The schedule looks manageable (ACF North, NFC South). Perhaps a tighter division race next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 @BKLYNYG IMO the Eagles were an 11 win type team with an easy schedule to 12 or 13 then 2 things happened. They got a massive upgrade in the AJ Brown trade and another massive upgrade in Bradberry. Add in some guys like Kyzir White and CGJ and the talent level just maxed out to a possible 16-1 team. I'm not saying the Giants can't take a big step next year but you don't add 2 huge impact players like that every year. What they do at QB will make or break the next 3-5 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinFldEBUpper Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, SkippyX said: What they do at QB will make or break the next 3-5 years. And I think that's a really awkward place for them to be. Daniel Jones isn't bad. In fact I might even say he's decent. He's no longer turning the ball over at an alarming rate, and he shows the ability to be a very good runner when necessary. It's just that he doesn't seem to show the ability to ever be a truly skilled passer. He's okay. He's Ryan Tannehill. But do you want to marry yourself financially to a player of that caliber? If you do, you'll be living in the "tenth to twentieth best quarterback in the league" world where everything else has to go well for your team to be successful. That's a tough sell. What's tough for them -- and good for us, I think -- is that they'll probably have to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Personally I really hope they stick with Jones again next year… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LacesOut Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 G-Men, Can you please win tomorrow? okthnxbye!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 13 hours ago, SkippyX said: @BKLYNYG IMO the Eagles were an 11 win type team with an easy schedule to 12 or 13 then 2 things happened. They got a massive upgrade in the AJ Brown trade and another massive upgrade in Bradberry. Add in some guys like Kyzir White and CGJ and the talent level just maxed out to a possible 16-1 team. I'm not saying the Giants can't take a big step next year but you don't add 2 huge impact players like that every year. What they do at QB will make or break the next 3-5 years. Yea you guys absolutely nailed the off season. Brown and Bradberry, yes, but don’t forget about Reddick. He’s been a monster. Add in the easy schedule like you said and great health and you get a 15 win team. I don’t think anyone in the East will repeat that. If we can plug a few holes in the off-season I think the Giants can be a solid double digit win team next year (10, 11 wins, not 15) instead of a team that is going to grind out 9 this year. I hope they give Jones a two-year deal. I’d like to see him with better skill players and some coaching consistency. The alternatives are not that attractive, so give the guy that knows the system another chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 13 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said: And I think that's a really awkward place for them to be. Daniel Jones isn't bad. In fact I might even say he's decent. He's no longer turning the ball over at an alarming rate, and he shows the ability to be a very good runner when necessary. It's just that he doesn't seem to show the ability to ever be a truly skilled passer. He's okay. He's Ryan Tannehill. But do you want to marry yourself financially to a player of that caliber? If you do, you'll be living in the "tenth to twentieth best quarterback in the league" world where everything else has to go well for your team to be successful. That's a tough sell. What's tough for them -- and good for us, I think -- is that they'll probably have to. You realize Hurts is probably a top 10-12 QB himself. Maybe breaks the top 8 when you factor in his ability to run the ball. He looks like a top 5 QB this year because the Eagles have done a masterful job of building the team around him. The offense literally has no weaknesses. No holes that he has to cover up with arm talent. Hat tip to the Eagles FO. Jones on the other hand has to make up for an average at best OL and quite possibly the worst collection of pass catchers in the league. It’s a tall order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 The team makes Hurts angle is Grade Z lazy ignorant crap. Hurts is top 5 because he is top 5. Guys like Mahomes and Rodgers have great players and great systems around them and no one says they are products of their system. Hurts is a great runner this year. He is also a great passer. He's 2nd in ypp and he's best in deep ball rating. AJ Brown is a very good WR. He was a 1000 and 8 guy in Tennessee, not a 1400 and 12 guy. This is not bringing in TO. Devonta Smith is good, might wind up being great, but he's not top 20 yet. He is 3rd in yards among #2 WRs. (Seattle and Miami) Goedert is a good TE but he's a 640 and 4 guy, not Kelce. Dawson Knox is on a pace to be about 600 and 7 over the last 2 seasons. This is not the '27 Yankees and Hurts is just the utility infielder. He makes everyone on the team much better. The Eagles have the best O-line. The Chiefs are 2nd or 3rd. Buffalo is in the top 4 or top 6 depending on who is ranking them. Hurts has absolutely no advantage over Mahomes and Allen in this race. He has just been a better QB at winning games and limiting crushing mistakes. Having a great D (Philly and Buffalo) might be an advantage in win loss record but it kills you in stats. Mahomes gets to play late in 4th quarters while Hurts is resting. The Eagles have hit cruise control in the 2nd half of several games. Mahomes is racking up stats while Indy beats him and bad teams take him to OT. Derek Henry has 54 rushing 1st downs this year. Hurts has 64. Hurts is 2nd in rushing TDs and rushing 1st downs. He is unstoppable. Tannehill had AJ Brown and King Henry. Hurts is both Tannehill and King Henry in this offense. (the running over people, not the 1600 yards) No one else in the league can do that. Josh Allen and Mahomes have played on about the same level with Hurts with equally talented offenses with 1 big difference. Mahomes and Allen have made multiple terrible plays to lose games for their team. Hurts has yet to do that this year. (you know the 1 loss was BS on that Goedert face mask assault) Davis and Diggs have 2051 yards and 15 TDs AJ and Devonta have 2102 and 15 Kelce and JuJu have 1994 and 15 JuJu had 1426 and 7 the last time he had a real QB with an actual NFL arm. Roethlisberger got hurt, missed the year, and was never the same. Kelce, JuJu, and MVS as the deep guy are top 10 NFL weapons. Diggs, Davis, Knox, and McKenzie are as well. So are Chase, Higgins, Boyd, and Mixon. So are Williams, Allen, and Ekler with Everett and Palmer (His top 2 WRs combined to miss 11 games. Does that make Herbert MVP?) So are Hill, Waddle, and Mostert/Wilson So are Jefferson, Thielen, Cook, Hockenson, and Osborne So are SFs weapons. So are Metcalf, Lockett, and Walker with Fant/Dissly Who the hell are these QBs up for MVP without really good weapons? Wentz 2019? There are no magic better weapons in Philly 2022. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Part of why Miles Sanders is healthy for the first time in his career is the expert run game management of Hurts to limit giving him the ball when he is about to get clobbered. (he keeps himself or he draws the defender and hands off) You also see this in RPO where he made Micah Parsons look like Dion Jordan. There is no stat for that but its real. Elite runner Elite passer Elite leader Elite OC extension on the field (like Peyton Manning) MVP Mahomes can be a well deserving OPOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 @SkippyX I said I could see Hurts breaking the top 8, you say top 5. We’re not that far apart. The QBs I would take over Hurts are Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert and Lawrence. Then there’s probably 3 or 4 that can be ranked in any order based on how they’re currently playing (Hurts, Tua, Jackson, etc). So if you would say Hurts is top 5 or 6 THIS year, I wouldn’t argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 Pain… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Thought this was interesting. Basically Jones gets zero help and Hurts gets by far the most. Situation matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Daniel Jones… Who would have thought next weeks game would be meaningless for the Giants and critical for the Eagles. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LacesOut Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 1 hour ago, BKLYNYG said: Daniel Jones… Who would have thought next weeks game would be meaningless for the Giants and critical for the Eagles. What a strange NFL season it’s been. Congrats on making the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlevessel Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, LacesOut said: What a strange NFL season it’s been. Congrats on making the playoffs. Their fans all came out of the wood work on Facebook today acting like they won the Super Bowl and how the 49ers are so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 6 hours ago, wrestlevessel said: Their fans all came out of the wood work on Facebook today acting like they won the Super Bowl and how the 49ers are so easy. Dude, stop lying. These statements are contradictory. Giants fans are very much "just happy to be here.” We know we joined the party a year early. That said, a round one game against the Vikings. Hmm, interesting. 49ers, Cowboys or Eagles, not ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 So, do the Giants play their starters this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shades 73 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 13 minutes ago, eggs said: So, do the Giants play their starters this week? Maybe a few series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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