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Howie at it again: restructures Cox deal

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36 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

He was never an all pro and has never been to a pro bowl. He never led the league or was in the top ten (or even his position) in sacks, forces fumbles, or tackles - how is he a stud?

He was and still is a good player, nothing more.

He’s a DT, none of those stat lines pertain to his position group.

If you’re not all-pro you can’t be a stud? What kind of logic is that?

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11 hours ago, Outlaw said:

Umm, yeah…hence why I said what I said. Donald is in a different stratosphere all by himself among DTs. But yeah, thanks for affirming my statement while simultaneously seeming to be calling me out because of it?

Calling you out? How? I was agreeing with you. Calm down 

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30 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

He’s a DT, none of those stat lines pertain to his position group.

If you’re not all-pro you can’t be a stud? What kind of logic is that?

Studs are players that are the best of the best at their position. They are the ones that every team wants to have on their team. They are the ones that make All Pro/Pro Bowls all the time.

None of those attributes are Javon Hargrave. He is a good to great player and that is about it.

Sorry if my definition is too rigid, but I feel that we tend to overrate many of these guys and use terms like 'stud' way too loosely.

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7 hours ago, pallidrone said:

Studs are players that are the best of the best at their position. They are the ones that every team wants to have on their team. They are the ones that make All Pro/Pro Bowls all the time.

None of those attributes are Javon Hargrave. He is a good to great player and that is about it.

Sorry if my definition is too rigid, but I feel that we tend to overrate many of these guys and use terms like 'stud' way too loosely.

Plus, it fits your silly free agent narrative having a rigid definition of a stud.

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57 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Plus, it fits your silly free agent narrative having a rigid definition of a stud.

That's fine as well. I guess everyone who does something is a stud.

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11 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Calling you out? How? I was agreeing with you. Calm down 

Eh I was in a pissy mood yesterday and interpreted it wrong. My bad. Go Birds. 

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On 9/14/2021 at 8:11 PM, Procus said:

At the end of the day, these are academic discussions.  Eagles are one of the fortunate teams in the league to have their starting QB on a rookie salary.  The team will have plenty of cap space available for whatever moves management deems needed.  No shortage of dough to sign a coveted FA during the offseason, no shortage of money to extend key players.  Won't need to let a coveted starter leave the team as a FA because we can't afford to keep him.

The cap is not an issue for the team as long as Hurts is the starter on his rookie contract.

Finally getting around to this since baby girl is sleeping and I have a quick minute.

 

Yes, any discussion about the proper way to build a team is academic.  The rest of this is unfounded given the cap is, by definition, finite.  I can give an example (which will help me make a few broader points) where a team actually found themselves in a position that it was virtually impossible to get under the cap: the 2006 Washington Rwords.

 

One of my criticisms of Howie post superbowl on how he was managing the team is that it reminded me of the early to mid aught Vinny Cerrato.  Like Howie, he would borrow heavily from future cap and use draft picks to trade for aging veterans.  He ended up with an extremely tight cap, no young talent, and a very shallow roster.  (Sound familiar?).  The result?  Consistently finishing around 6-10 with a random playoff season sprinkled in

2002 2002 NFL NFC East 3rd 7 9 0   Steve Spurrier
2003 2003 NFL NFC East 3rd 5 11 0  
2004 2004 NFL NFC East 4th 6 10 0   Joe Gibbs
2005 2005 NFL NFC East 2nd 10 6 0 Won Wild Card Playoffs (at Buccaneers) 17–10
Lost Divisional Playoffs (at Seahawks) 20–10
 
2006 2006 NFL NFC East 4th 5 11 0  
2007 2007 NFL NFC East 3rd 9 7 0 Lost Wild Card Playoffs (at Seahawks) 35–14  
2008 2008 NFL NFC East 4th 8 8 0   Jim Zorn
2009 2009 NFL NFC East 4th 4 12 0

 

Now I know we did slightly better and there is one main difference:  We actually had an average to above average QB play in Wentz in 2018 and 2019, where they had a long expired shelf life of Mark Brunell and other flops like Jason Campbell.  

 

Now on to my example:

  

On 9/15/2021 at 11:05 AM, NOTW said:

So assuming the calculations are right, this in fact does kick the can down the road.

See, this is the problem with the "cap genius."  He does this on players that are declining, older or injury prone and then the cap hit is worse when you want to cut them.  

Part of why he had to do this was the bad decision to give a $100m contract to Wentz before he proved he could stay healthy and win a playoff game.  And then he went on to have the worst year of his career.  He had to eat money on the deal, and get a 2nd and a 3rd pick (potential 1st of course) in return when he traded more than that to trade up for Wentz.  This is the "genius" people talk about, a guy making mistakes then being a "genius" for fixing them.

While I am a fan of the Joe Banner model (lock up players early, leave yourself cap flexible), I will say one thing.  Leveraging future cap space isn't the worst thing under one condition:  The expectation that the cap will go up perpetually.

 

In 2006 the NFL was going through its collective bargaining agreement.  A deal could not be made by the deadline which meant the cap stayed at the same #.  The R-words were in a bind.  Their model of restructures and consistently borrowing them from the future meant that it was virtually impossible for them to get under.  They had to make a ton of cuts and the only thing that got them under was Lavar Arrington wanted out so bad he returned 4 million so they would have a small cap savings when they cut him.  In the end this was all moot, the CBA got extended, the cuts that were made were contingent on no CBA and the players reverted back to the team.  But this example was a cautionary tale to what Howie was doing.

Fast forward to this year.  The cap went down unexpectedly and Howies hands were tied.  He pulled all but one or two levers to get us under.

 

So why borrow from the future at all?  If you expect the cap to go up, it can actually make financial sense.  Much like when the mortgage rates drop and money becomes "cheaper", a higher future cap is "cheaper" money.  If the cap is 300 million one year and 320 million the next year, borrowing 30 million from the future year is a smaller % of that years cap vs 30 million of the current cap.  If done in moderation, it is an effective way to build your team.  The trick is balance, making sure you also have cap flexibility for the unexpected whether it be a pandemic or a breakout star that you want to extend.

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On 9/15/2021 at 2:42 PM, Hawkeye said:

You're missing the point. 

Would you have preferred they kept Wentz which would have spread his cap charges through the 2024 season as planned?  Of course not. So they had to bite the bullet and accelerate all the amortized cap charges attached to his contract into 2021 resulting in the huge dead money charge but they have a clean slate on that one in 2022.

Again, the concept of dead money is flexibility.  The Eagles decided to eat the whole Wentz charge in one year which is an outlier.

Isn’t the Wentz money off the books after this season anyway? 

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40 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Isn’t the Wentz money off the books after this season anyway? 

It is, but they still pushed a ton of money to next year already. 

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Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

It is, but they still pushed a ton of money to next year already. 

I hoped Howie would finally take this opportunity to well get out of debt, but he seems determined to operate this way. 

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10 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I hoped Howie would finally take this opportunity to well get out of debt, but he seems determined to operate this way. 

I leave this up to the cap geeks in here lol. I don't follow it enough to get pissy about it. I have enough stuff with team to fuel that lol

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1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Isn’t the Wentz money off the books after this season anyway? 

Yes.  His mega deal runs through 2024 but when the Eagles traded him all the deferred cap charges accelerated into this season.  But after this they're free and clear of Wentz.

Flacco will also be gone next year so rather than allocating $40 million to the QB position like this year they'll be paying Hurts and Minshew less than $3 million next season.  Combined.  That gives them room to invest in other positions before they sign Hurts (or whoever) to a franchise deal.  It also gives them flexibility to be aggressive in free agency if Hurts doesn't work out. 

 

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7 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I leave this up to the cap geeks in here lol. I don't follow it enough to get pissy about it. I have enough stuff with team to fuel that lol

Eh, I dive deep because it’s a good variable to consider when predicting future success. 

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22 minutes ago, paco said:

Eh, I dive deep because it’s a good variable to consider when predicting future success. 

So how many super bowls can we expect in the next 10 years? 

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19 minutes ago, rambo said:

So how many super bowls can we expect in the next 10 years? 

If it’s less than a dozen, fire Howie!!!! :furious:

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7 minutes ago, paco said:

If it’s less than a dozen, fire Howie!!!! :furious:

 

tenor.gif

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2 hours ago, paco said:

Eh, I dive deep because it’s a good variable to consider when predicting future success. 

There's a sex joke in there somewhere but I'm too lazy right now. 

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1 hour ago, NOTW said:

There's a sex joke in there somewhere but I'm too lazy right now. 

That’s what she said?

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On 9/14/2021 at 2:58 PM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He has and he hasn't. He's kicked the can down the road again. Eventually that'll end up catching up with them in some form. 

If he didnt have a contract for life with Lurie it would have caught up with him already.  Should have been fired when they fired Doug and had to trade away Wentz.  Should have been a full clean slate.  But now he gets to follow up over $50M in dead money this year with close to that the following year.   Who knows what 2023 will bring, but it will creep up in dead money too.

Howie is like a shopoholic who just rolls balances over from one credit card to the next.  He should be stopped and have the credit cards cut up in front of him.

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17 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

Yes.  His mega deal runs through 2024 but when the Eagles traded him all the deferred cap charges accelerated into this season.  But after this they're free and clear of Wentz.

Flacco will also be gone next year so rather than allocating $40 million to the QB position like this year they'll be paying Hurts and Minshew less than $3 million next season.  Combined.  That gives them room to invest in other positions before they sign Hurts (or whoever) to a franchise deal.  It also gives them flexibility to be aggressive in free agency if Hurts doesn't work out. 

 

They are about to bump up against the cap next year (again) and dont have 53 players under contract.  Howie will be kicking the can again in 2022 just to fill the roster with bodies, not talent.

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7 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They are about to bump up against the cap next year (again) and dont have 53 players under contract.  Howie will be kicking the can again in 2022 just to fill the roster with bodies, not talent.

Howie has 4 picks in the first two rounds. The Eagles have 9 total picks for 2022. Now do I think he will use all of them or do I think they all will make the team? No actually I don’t, but that is a lot of draft selections and many of them will fill the holes on the roster. 

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On 9/15/2021 at 6:20 AM, paco said:

So I dont lose it....

 

Before the restructure

Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus   Guaranteed Salary   Cap
Number
Cap %  
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension 
2016 26 $1,299,000 $5,200,000 $0   $1,299,000   $6,499,000 4.0%      
2017 27 $3,000,000 $6,400,000 $0   $3,000,000   $9,400,000 5.3%      
2018 28 $3,310,000 $8,038,000 $0   $3,310,000   $11,348,000 6.4%      
2019 📝 29 $930,000 $10,972,000 $0   $830,000   $11,902,000 6.0%      
2020 📝 30 $4,035,304 $13,079,939 $1,000,000   $1,000,000   $17,115,243 7.7%      
2021 📝 31 $15,000,000 $7,879,939 $1,000,000   $1,000,000   $23,879,939 11.6%  
$22,034,757
$1,845,182
2022 📝 32 $16,100,000 $6,679,939 $1,000,000   $0   $23,779,939 11.4%  
$13,154,818
$10,625,121
2023 33 Void $5,041,939 Void   Void   $5,041,939 2.2%  
$6,474,879
($1,432,940)
2024 34 Void $1,432,940 Void   Void   $1,432,940 0.6%  
$1,432,940
$0

 

Here is the Cox restructure now that it is updated on over the cap, so you can see the same format and see the impact.  Eagles could have gotten out of his contract next year for some decent cap savings.  Now they are tied to him through the 2023 season, he will turn 34 that year.  So he needs to have 3 good seasons left in him.

Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus   Guaranteed Salary   Cap
Number
Cap %  
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension 
Total   $16,269,304 $95,459,108 $3,000,000   $10,439,000   $113,728,412    
2016 26 $1,299,000 $5,200,000 $0   $1,299,000   $6,499,000 4.0%      
2017 27 $3,000,000 $6,400,000 $0   $3,000,000   $9,400,000 5.3%      
2018 28 $3,310,000 $8,038,000 $0   $3,310,000   $11,348,000 6.4%      
2019 📝 29 $930,000 $10,972,000 $0   $830,000   $11,902,000 6.0%      
2020 📝 30 $4,035,304 $13,079,939 $1,000,000   $1,000,000   $17,115,243 7.7%      
2021 📝 31 $1,075,000 $10,841,409 $1,000,000   $1,000,000   $12,916,409 6.3%  
$52,769,169
($39,852,760)
2022 📝 32 $1,120,000 $12,826,820 $1,000,000   $0   $14,946,820 6.7%  
$40,927,760
($25,980,940)
2023 33 $1,500,000 $11,188,820 $0   $0   $12,688,820 5.6%  
$28,100,940
($15,412,120)
2024 34 Void $7,579,821 Void   Void   $16,912,120 6.6%  
$16,912,120
$0
2025 35 Void $6,146,884 Void   Void   $0 --  
$9,332,299
($9,332,299)
2026 36 Void $3,185,415 Void   Void   $0 --  
$3,185,415
($3,185,415)

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5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is the Cox restructure now that it is updated on over the cap, so you can see the same format and see the impact.  Eagles could have gotten out of his contract next year for some decent cap savings.  Now they are tied to him through the 2023 season, he will turn 34 that year.  So he needs to have 3 good seasons left in him.

Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus   Guaranteed Salary   Cap
Number
Cap %  
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension 
Total   $16,269,304 $95,459,108 $3,000,000   $10,439,000   $113,728,412    
2016 26 $1,299,000 $5,200,000 $0   $1,299,000   $6,499,000 4.0%      
2017 27 $3,000,000 $6,400,000 $0   $3,000,000   $9,400,000 5.3%      
2018 28 $3,310,000 $8,038,000 $0   $3,310,000   $11,348,000 6.4%      
2019 📝 29 $930,000 $10,972,000 $0   $830,000   $11,902,000 6.0%      
2020 📝 30 $4,035,304 $13,079,939 $1,000,000   $1,000,000   $17,115,243 7.7%      
2021 📝 31 $1,075,000 $10,841,409 $1,000,000   $1,000,000   $12,916,409 6.3%  
$52,769,169
($39,852,760)
2022 📝 32 $1,120,000 $12,826,820 $1,000,000   $0   $14,946,820 6.7%  
$40,927,760
($25,980,940)
2023 33 $1,500,000 $11,188,820 $0   $0   $12,688,820 5.6%  
$28,100,940
($15,412,120)
2024 34 Void $7,579,821 Void   Void   $16,912,120 6.6%  
$16,912,120
$0
2025 35 Void $6,146,884 Void   Void   $0 --  
$9,332,299
($9,332,299)
2026 36 Void $3,185,415 Void   Void   $0 --  
$3,185,415
($3,185,415)

I don't think he'll be worth that type of coin, obviously, but I think he'll at least be productive moving forward. Hopefully better than that.

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On 9/18/2021 at 8:32 AM, Iggles_Phan said:

They are about to bump up against the cap next year (again) and dont have 53 players under contract.  Howie will be kicking the can again in 2022 just to fill the roster with bodies, not talent.

The can exists to be kicked.  In the last week they’ve signed two of their young core guys to long term deals (Mailata and Sweat).  That’s not roster filling.

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16M this year

25M next year with a possible roll over from this year. 

52M in 2023

This is with Sweat and Mailata wrapped up.

There is money to sign next years rookies and bring in some Free Agents. 

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