Fletcher Cox Not liking how Gannon is using him

[Talonblood]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

They're trying to bait him into blaming Gannon for his lack of production ... his answers don't reveal much other than that he is uncomfortable answering them.  

Look, the scheme is different from what he had been playing in for most of his career (he started under Washburn who worked under Schwartz so they shared some similar philosophies).  We all knew Gannon was going to change things up when he was hired (he learned under Zimmer).  And he is getting long in the tooth, so it is understandable that he'd be experiencing a lack of production.  I do think we'll see him become more productive as the season progresses as everyone gets more comfortable within the new scheme.  

I hear you, but I think the point total from the last 2 games given up by Gannon's scheme is getting some players to question and not buy into what he is doing. We'll see if other players follow suite. They are getting embarrassed in the run D out there in particular, and they are also getting pissed that Gannon has no answers for it so far. It's too early to tell how many players are feeling that way, because the D was ok-ish against Atlanta and the 49er's, then just imploded the last 2 games. We'll see as the season unfolds, but Gannon's scheme is getting gashed and trashed, and players are going to speak up if he doesn't adjust and fix this thing. If you can't stop the run, you ain't winning in the NFL- period.

[time2rock]

11 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

I hear you, but I think the point total from the last 2 games given up by Gannon's scheme is getting some players to question and not buy into what he is doing. We'll see if other players follow suite. They are getting embarrassed in the run D out there in particular, and they are also getting pissed that Gannon has no answers for it so far. It's too early to tell how many players are feeling that way, because the D was ok-ish against Atlanta and the 49er's, then just imploded the last 2 games. We'll see as the season unfolds, but Gannon's scheme is getting gashed and trashed, and players are going to speak up if he doesn't adjust and fix this thing. If you can't stop the run, you ain't winning in the NFL- period.

I get all that.  Just like SIri is new to being a HC, Gannon is 4 games into his career as a DC.  They are both still trying to figure stuff out ... what works, what doesn't, how to adjust with the personnel they have at their disposal, etc.  Both Dallas and KC have super potent offenses ... they are going to make a lot of defenses look silly.  It is still too early to panic or make any kind of judgement.  Let's see if they don't start getting their ish together as the season progresses and everyone gets more comfortable (coaches included).  

[Talonblood]

1 minute ago, time2rock said:

I get all that.  Just like SIri is new to being a HC, Gannon is 4 games into his career as a DC.  They are both still trying to figure stuff out ... what works, what doesn't, how to adjust with the personnel they have at their disposal, etc.  Both Dallas and KC have super potent offenses ... they are going to make a lot of defenses look silly.  It is still too early to panic or make any kind of judgement.  Let's see if they don't start getting their ish together as the season progresses and everyone gets more comfortable (coaches included).  

I'm with you on this- but Gannon needs to make adjustments now, rather than later. I hope he does. What I don't like is he says he "has no scheme." That means players roles are not defined and they get tossed all over the place at his whim. You can't win like that. I NEVER saw an NFL head coach, O coord or D coord, not have a scheme. And what Cox said lends itself to this issue.

[time2rock]

1 hour ago, Talonblood said:

I'm with you on this- but Gannon needs to make adjustments now, rather than later. I hope he does. What I don't like is he says he "has no scheme." That means players roles are not defined and they get tossed all over the place at his whim. You can't win like that. I NEVER saw an NFL head coach, O coord or D coord, not have a scheme. And what Cox said lends itself to this issue.

What I took "have no scheme" to mean is he doesn't have something set in stone yet ... that he wants to see what his players do best and try to create a scheme eventually that fits their strengths, so right now he is in more of an evaluation mode.  At least that is what I hope he meant by that.  

[Big___Al]

1 hour ago, toolg said:

Then I disagree. I don't believe Cox has been ineffective just because he's not putting up jaw-dropping stats. I still think he's a fine player, working to get better at the new schemes. I believe Cox now is better than drafting some new players and coaching them up. That'll take years to rehab the defense. I blame the new coaches more than the players for the doldrums we see on defense now. 

I blame whomever is in charge of player personnel. That would be some guy named Howie, I think.

[EagleVA]

17 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

 he is an elite player 

So they say, I've never really been impressed with Cox, I honestly can't ever remember when he's dished out a hard hit on anyone, I've see too many times where he gave the RB an extra 2-3 yards by slinging him forward.......I was talking trade the guy 2-3 years ago.

[The Blackfish]

Listening to the Q&A podcast, they destroyed the Eagles soft cover 2 defense.  The best was Avant talking about the blitz from the nickel when Mahomes unleashed the long TD to Hill, because the blitz came from nickel, 7 yards behind the line and Mahomes should of been breakdancing then gotten up and threw the ball.  In the mean time Hill had enough time to run a circle post and still wasn’t covered by anyone.  
 Obviously they hit on the linebackers, when Chicago ran this style they had Briggs and Urlacher, and Carolina had at least Luke Kuechly.  I can’t remember if they mentioned Brooks or Barber with TB, but still the same concept of really good linebackers.  Probably the Tampa 2, in which case the Middle Linebacker drops back into coverage, whichever it doesn’t matter, whatever Gannon is trying to do isn’t working and he needs to be able to make adjustments. 

[Bwestbrook36]

23 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

So they say, I've never really been impressed with Cox, I honestly can't ever remember when he's dished out a hard hit on anyone, I've see too many times where he gave the RB an extra 2-3 yards by slinging him forward.......I was talking trade the guy 2-3 years ago.

I get tired of the double team talk. Yeah no sheet he is supposed to get double teamed and players of his caliber are still supposed to beat those double teams from time to time. He said he got sad when Graham got hurt and it affected his play in the niners game. Welp looks like he is still sad to me. 

 

[Bwestbrook36]

3 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

Listening to the Q&A podcast, they destroyed the Eagles soft cover 2 defense.  The best was Avant talking about the blitz from the nickel when Mahomes unleashed the long TD to Hill, because the blitz came from nickel, 7 yards behind the line and Mahomes should of been breakdancing then gotten up and threw the ball.  In the mean time Hill had enough time to run a circle post and still wasn’t covered by anyone.  
 Obviously they hit on the linebackers, when Chicago ran this style they had Briggs and Urlacher, and Carolina had at least Luke Kuechly.  I can’t remember if they mentioned Brooks or Barber with TB, but still the same concept of really good linebackers.  Probably the Tampa 2, in which case the Middle Linebacker drops back into coverage, whichever it doesn’t matter, whatever Gannon is trying to do isn’t working and he needs to be able to make adjustments. 

I agree he needs to adjust but, it's also BS that he is brought in here and the scheme he wants to run requires good linebackers and they give him trash off the street. It's his first year and they set him up to fail, you can't expect him to be good when it's his first year as a d coordinator and he can't even run what he wants to run. 

[Talonblood]

7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

No, I haven't. I don't think this has ever been attempted in the history of Philadelphia sports. 

 

Have you ever heard of click bait?

Fletch doesn't like what Gannon is dealing, plain and simple. Look at the last 2 games points totals. It's as simple as that.

[Godfather]

It's an excuse for him declining 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

23 minutes ago, Godfather said:

It's an excuse for him declining 

And ignores the clear signs over the last couple of years that he's been in decline. 

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, Talonblood said:

Fletch doesn't like what Gannon is dealing, plain and simple. Look at the last 2 games points totals. It's as simple as that.

That may or may not be true. I just don't believe Cox was doing anything other than answering questions as a "team guy." Cox has no history of being a malcontent and instead has always kept working hard and doing what the coaches ask him to do. Read between the lines if you like. I expect him to have plenty more good games ahead for us --- even in Gannon's defense. Slow start for him this year obviously, but 4 games does not a season make. The loss of Graham has made Cox the focal point for opposing blocking schemes in the first month. Hargrave's impressive production surely will change this. Cox should start seeing fewer double teams and get plenty of opportunities to be his old disruptive self. It would be extremely helpful if guys like Kerrigan step it up and start making plays while Graham is out.

[PhillyPhreak24]

22 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Oh well, he is an elite player who has now played for 5 defensive coordinators... Now that he is older and a bit wore down he complains he doesn't like the scheme? 

The scheme is terrible. We can all agree on that.

[Bwestbrook36]

3 minutes ago, PhillyPhreak24 said:

The scheme is terrible. We can all agree on that.

Yes that we can

[rickospia]

7 hours ago, Talonblood said:

I hear you, but I think the point total from the last 2 games given up by Gannon's scheme is getting some players to question and not buy into what he is doing. We'll see if other players follow suite. They are getting embarrassed in the run D out there in particular, and they are also getting pissed that Gannon has no answers for it so far. It's too early to tell how many players are feeling that way, because the D was ok-ish against Atlanta and the 49er's, then just imploded the last 2 games. We'll see as the season unfolds, but Gannon's scheme is getting gashed and trashed, and players are going to speak up if he doesn't adjust and fix this thing. If you can't stop the run, you ain't winning in the NFL- period.

Gannon looks like he is in over his head .

[proveagle]

I have issues with the scheme so far, however..

Cox is one of the highest paid DTs in the league.  You are paid to dominate 1:1s and from multiple positions.  That is why you get paid the big bucks.

[Traveler Vic]

11 hours ago, ilikepargo said:

Aside from opposing offenses, does anyone really like the way that Gannon is leading this defense?

I do not think that Gannon wants to show his hand. Hence vanilla, prevent the big pass, defense. Like most defensive coaches he is saving his blitz packages until it matters. Considering that he doesn't yet fully know the players, or that in his evaluation..this team has limited talent, I did not expect him to do anything but what he is doing already. Let's face it, it will take a lot more talent on defense, and a lot more time for the players to learn the system, before any meaningful progress. It is what it is. I expect that by the end of the year there will be some flashes.

[Talonblood]

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

That may or may not be true. I just don't believe Cox was doing anything other than answering questions as a "team guy." Cox has no history of being a malcontent and instead has always kept working hard and doing what the coaches ask him to do. Read between the lines if you like. I expect him to have plenty more good games ahead for us --- even in Gannon's defense. Slow start for him this year obviously, but 4 games does not a season make. The loss of Graham has made Cox the focal point for opposing blocking schemes in the first month. Hargrave's impressive production surely will change this. Cox should start seeing fewer double teams and get plenty of opportunities to be his old disruptive self. It would be extremely helpful if guys like Kerrigan step it up and start making plays while Graham is out.

It would be extremely helpful if the D Coord knew what he was doing. The Eagles have allowed 83 points and 851 yards in their last two games.

[EagleVA]

16 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I get tired of the double team talk. Yeah no sheet he is supposed to get double teamed and players of his caliber are still supposed to beat those double teams from time to time. 

 

Right, when he's double teamed I see little to no effort to beat it.

[Philthy Jawn]

11 hours ago, rickospia said:

Gannon looks like he is in over his head .

Agreed.  This whole coaching staff does, save for Stoutland and Clay.

[RememberTheKoy]

13 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

I do not think that Gannon wants to show his hand. Hence vanilla, prevent the big pass, defense. Like most defensive coaches he is saving his blitz packages until it matters. Considering that he doesn't yet fully know the players, or that in his evaluation..this team has limited talent, I did not expect him to do anything but what he is doing already. Let's face it, it will take a lot more talent on defense, and a lot more time for the players to learn the system, before any meaningful progress. It is what it is. I expect that by the end of the year there will be some flashes.

 

Saving it for when it matters? What is he expecting us to make the playoffs before he unveils things? This isn't the preseason and one of the games we got slapped around in was against a division opponent. 

[rickospia]

On 10/7/2021 at 12:37 PM, Talonblood said:

I hear you, but I think the point total from the last 2 games given up by Gannon's scheme is getting some players to question and not buy into what he is doing. We'll see if other players follow suite. They are getting embarrassed in the run D out there in particular, and they are also getting pissed that Gannon has no answers for it so far. It's too early to tell how many players are feeling that way, because the D was ok-ish against Atlanta and the 49er's, then just imploded the last 2 games. We'll see as the season unfolds, but Gannon's scheme is getting gashed and trashed, and players are going to speak up if he doesn't adjust and fix this thing. If you can't stop the run, you ain't winning in the NFL- period.

Cox talking like this to the media says alot.

[Traveler Vic]

10 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Saving it for when it matters? What is he expecting us to make the playoffs before he unveils things? This isn't the preseason and one of the games we got slapped around in was against a division opponent. 

Did you ever think that our players are not talented enough, or simply have not learned the system yet? What did you want Gannon to do exactly? Blitz, blitz, and more blitz...At which point we would be 60 points down, because our safeties and LBs are blitzing instead of covering the long ball? Let's face it Dallas is in their prime, Prescott is healthy, and we are at the very beginning of the new regime. And no matter how much people hate Dallas, it will not change the reality.

[RememberTheKoy]

27 minutes ago, Traveler Vic said:

Did you ever think that our players are not talented enough, or simply have not learned the system yet? What did you want Gannon to do exactly? Blitz, blitz, and more blitz...At which point we would be 60 points down, because our safeties and LBs are blitzing instead of covering the long ball? Let's face it Dallas is in their prime, Prescott is healthy, and we are at the very beginning of the new regime. And no matter how much people hate Dallas, it will not change the reality.

 

Not learned the system yet?  The DC that just got chewed out by the HC, has repeatedly said lately that he has no system.  Certainly by the ultra conservative vanilla defense he has been running I lean towards actually believing him.  And yes, blitz.  Come up with some creative blitz's that you can use players you've acquired apparently for these reasons like Avery and Patrick Johnson.  Yet we never see it.  

Did you know that no other team in the league has blitzed less than the Eagles this season?  And only two other Eagles teams in team history have only had 2 turnovers entering their 5th game of the season.