Jordan Howard Likely OUT Against Giants (Knee Sprain)

[Bwestbrook36]

6 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

LOL! Your list of players that you dislike has to be 20 pages long.  One error and they are done.  

Sanders is our primary RB, so you might have to get used to watching him be successful.

Exactly, he barely touched the ball all season then gets hurt for 3 weeks and still comes in and pops off for almost 6 yards a carry. But sure we don't need that at all

[UK_EaglesFan89]

44 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Calm down. Sanders made a couple mistakes in his first game back after being out 3 weeks and not practicing. He has a week to work on the little things and get those ironed out. Don't overreact because of 1 game. 

He fumbled twice in crucial areas. He's had fumbling issues throughout his nfl career. He also before he got hurt went out of bounds twice in the same game to stop the clock rather than getting down in bounds. And he did the same thing on Sunday too that seemed to go unnoticed. 

He's an extremely talented RB but he keeps making mistakes. 

[time2rock]

41 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

LOL! Your list of players that you dislike has to be 20 pages long.  One error and they are done.  

Sanders is our primary RB, so you might have to get used to watching him be successful.

I am guessing his issue with Sanders is his penchant for fumbling - he has 7 fumbles in 3 years (4 of which were recovered by the opposition ... and obviously against the Saints it was deep in our own territory).  It is annoying and something he needs to work on but I don't think it is at the level of not playing him.  The bad is outweighed by the good as he does rip off some pretty impressive runs.  I just thought that they tried to use him too much on his first game back (he had the same number of touches as Howard and Scott combined) ... there was likely going to be some rust.  But perhaps that was also due to Howard leaving the game with injury - perhaps that shifted the numbers more than they initially intended.  

[Bwestbrook36]

3 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I am guessing his issue with Sanders is his penchant for fumbling - he has 7 fumbles in 3 years (4 of which were recovered by the opposition ... and obviously against the Saints it was deep in our own territory).  It is annoying and something he needs to work on but I don't think it is at the level of not playing him.  The bad is outweighed by the good as he does rip off some pretty impressive runs.  I just thought that they tried to use him too much on his first game back (he had the same number of touches as Howard and Scott combined) ... there was likely going to be some rust.  But perhaps that was also due to Howard leaving the game with injury - perhaps that shifted the numbers more than they initially intended.  

I agree he makes mistakes and the fumbling has always been an issue. Still can't bench him though. Not when he is getting over 5 yards a carry and is a home run threat every single time he touches the ball. Calling for him to not get any carries is ridiculous. 

I heard 2 fumbles for the saints game but, they only docked him for 1. I didn't get to see the game so what was the deal with the 2nd fumble people keep talking about?

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

6 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I am guessing his issue with Sanders is his penchant for fumbling - he has 7 fumbles in 3 years (4 of which were recovered by the opposition ... and obviously against the Saints it was deep in our own territory).  It is annoying and something he needs to work on but I don't think it is at the level of not playing him.  The bad is outweighed by the good as he does rip off some pretty impressive runs.  I just thought that they tried to use him too much on his first game back (he had the same number of touches as Howard and Scott combined) ... there was likely going to be some rust.  But perhaps that was also due to Howard leaving the game with injury - perhaps that shifted the numbers more than they initially intended.  

The fumbles are a concern, but he is the dynamic RB that this team needs.  I think he just dislikes any player that makes a recent mistake.  He has a long history of that.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I agree he makes mistakes and the fumbling has always been an issue. Still can't bench him though. Not when he is getting over 5 yards a carry and is a home run threat every single time he touches the ball. Calling for him to not get any carries is ridiculous. 

Look he's undoubtedly a talented player and he's capable of ripping off the big run more so than any other RB we have. But the run game has been working so well. I'm not saying bench him but I think limit his carries. He feels like an unnecessary risk at times. 

[time2rock]

24 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I agree he makes mistakes and the fumbling has always been an issue. Still can't bench him though. Not when he is getting over 5 yards a carry and is a home run threat every single time he touches the ball. Calling for him to not get any carries is ridiculous. 

I heard 2 fumbles for the saints game but, they only docked him for 1. I didn't get to see the game so what was the deal with the 2nd fumble people keep talking about?

He coughed up another but fortunately was ruled down.  

[time2rock]

22 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Look he's undoubtedly a talented player and he's capable of ripping off the big run more so than any other RB we have. But the run game has been working so well. I'm not saying bench him but I think limit his carries. He feels like an unnecessary risk at times. 

When they announced he would be active for the game I was hoping to see a pretty even distribution of carries split 3 ways between he, Howard, and Scott.  But as stated earlier, perhaps that was the initial plan that got derailed when we lost Howard.  I imagine Gainwell will suit up against NY but will have limited touches, so I expect a lot of Sanders and Scott.  

[Bwestbrook36]

18 minutes ago, time2rock said:

When they announced he would be active for the game I was hoping to see a pretty even distribution of carries split 3 ways between he, Howard, and Scott.  But as stated earlier, perhaps that was the initial plan that got derailed when we lost Howard.  I imagine Gainwell will suit up against NY but will have limited touches, so I expect a lot of Sanders and Scott.  

Unfortunately we have to deal with these kinds of players for now. At least Sanders has some positive plays unlike Barnett who is basically useless at this point and hurts the team 2-3 times a game

[Infam]

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I'm sure it will depend on when he's ready, but he will be eligible to return at that time if they put him on IR in the next couple days. 

Reuben Frank writes it is a minimum of three games (not weeks), and that he would be eligible to return for the Giants rematch (so would miss the game vs WTF after the bye).

[Kz!]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Look he's undoubtedly a talented player and he's capable of ripping off the big run more so than any other RB we have. But the run game has been working so well. I'm not saying bench him but I think limit his carries. He feels like an unnecessary risk at times. 

Agree. Obviously the fumbles are the biggest problem, but there's also no question that our running game was better with him out. He's a really explosive runner, but he goes east/west way too often. Contrast that with Jordan Howard's running style that is purely north/south. Howard makes the most of every run and can consistently squeeze out those crucial extra 1 or 2 yards because he's so north/south oriented. Miles Sanders leaves a lot of "meat on the bone" when he runs because he is constantly going east/west to try to hit the homerun. It's hard to fall forward for those extra yards when you're heading toward the sideline. 

So Sanders has a better chance of breaking big plays and inflating his YPC, but he consistently misses out on those tough extra yards that north/south guys like Howard get.

[Infam]

12 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Agree. Obviously the fumbles are the biggest problem, but there's also no question that our running game was better with him out. He's a really explosive runner, but he goes east/west way too often. Contrast that with Jordan Howard's running style that is purely north/south. Howard makes the most of every run and can consistently squeeze out those crucial extra 1 or 2 yards because he's so north/south oriented. Miles Sanders leaves a lot of "meat on the bone" when he runs because he is constantly going east/west to try to hit the homerun. It's hard to fall forward for those extra yards when you're heading toward the sideline. 

So Sanders has a better chance of breaking big plays and inflating his YPC, but he consistently misses out on those tough extra yards that north/south guys like Howard get.

Imagine he didn‘t fumble the ball, would you say the same? I don‘t think so. I think the actual running of Sanders against the Saints was very much no-bs. But he has to secure the ball. Catching one or two wouldn‘t hurt either..

[Cochis_Calhoun]

6 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Agree. Obviously the fumbles are the biggest problem, but there's also no question that our running game was better with him out. He's a really explosive runner, but he goes east/west way too often. Contrast that with Jordan Howard's running style that is purely north/south. Howard makes the most of every run and can consistently squeeze out those crucial extra 1 or 2 yards because he's so north/south oriented. Miles Sanders leaves a lot of "meat on the bone" when he runs because he is constantly going east/west to try to hit the homerun. It's hard to fall forward for those extra yards when you're heading toward the sideline. 

So Sanders has a better chance of breaking big plays and inflating his YPC, but he consistently misses out on those tough extra yards that north/south guys like Howard get.

It's basically the same issue as Shady, Shady was always a brilliant runner, but sometimes he would dance for the edge rather than just hit the hole that was right in front of him, if he got away around the edge he could be gone, but if you just needed someone to tough it up the gut for a couple of yards to move the chains he'd sometime miss the chance.

Watching Howard against the Saints where he had that series of 5 consecutive runs where he just plowed straight ahead for 48 yards on the toughest run defense in the league, Sanders is a good runner but he just cannot do that.

The key is without Howard I'm not sure we have the runners to wear down a defense, whereas when Sanders was out the running game didn't miss him.

[Kz!]

7 minutes ago, Infam said:

Imagine he didn‘t fumble the ball, would you say the same? I don‘t think so. I think the actual running of Sanders against the Saints was very much no-bs. But he has to secure the ball. Catching one or two wouldn‘t hurt either..

The fumbling was the biggest issue, but I also have soured on his running style a bit. There's a reason our running game has been so much more effective with Howard than with Sanders and it has a lot to do with their styles. 

[Infam]

9 minutes ago, Kz! said:

The fumbling was the biggest issue, but I also have soured on his running style a bit. There's a reason our running game has been so much more effective with Howard than with Sanders and it has a lot to do with their styles. 

I‘ve always wanted a power back! 
But Sanders is under contract next year for cheap, let‘s just keep him and hope he figures it out. There is still a chance for some ‚Thunder and Lightning‘ with these two. And for almost no money invested too.

[Hawkeye]

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Calm down. Sanders made a couple mistakes in his first game back after being out 3 weeks and not practicing. He has a week to work on the little things and get those ironed out. Don't overreact because of 1 game. 

It's not overreacting to be concerned about his ongoing ball security issues.   He has to do a better job protecting the football. If the Eagles are  going to continue to roll by running the ball, it's critical now. 

[eagle45]

13 hours ago, Philthy Jawn said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Taylor can be activated from IR before the season ends, right?

He'll have an opportunity to be the first player in NFL history to hit IR 3 times in one season.

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

It's not overreacting to be concerned about his ongoing ball security issues.   He has to do a better job protecting the football. If the Eagles are  going to continue to roll by running the ball, it's critical now. 

It's overreacting to hope our RB1 doesn't get very many carries while our RB2 is out with an injury.

He has 1 fumble in 98 touches this year. Everybody is making a big deal about the one that came out after the whistle. Hurts has 6 fumbles so far and 5 INTs --- should we hope to play Minshew more?

Sanders had a game his rookie year where he fumbled twice (vs detroit early in the season). Everybody panicked saying, "He had ball security issues in college ... blah, blah, blah, I TOLD YOU SO!!!" Then he didn't fumble again the rest of the year. 

[brkmsn]

8 hours ago, Infam said:

Reuben Frank writes it is a minimum of three games (not weeks), and that he would be eligible to return for the Giants rematch (so would miss the game vs WTF after the bye).

I thought it was weeks. Not the first time I was wrong here --- probably the 2nd time. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

It's overreacting to hope our RB1 doesn't get very many carries while our RB2 is out with an injury.

He has 1 fumble in 98 touches this year. Everybody is making a big deal about the one that came out after the whistle. Hurts has 6 fumbles so far and 5 INTs --- should we hope to play Minshew more?

Sanders had a game his rookie year where he fumbled twice (vs detroit early in the season). Everybody panicked saying, "He had ball security issues in college ... blah, blah, blah, I TOLD YOU SO!!!" Then he didn't fumble again the rest of the year. 

It’s not just people saying he has fumble issues. It’s bad enough he fumbled in his first game back, but he almost did it twice and he bobbled the handoff too. He’s lucky they blew the play dead. Also there were reports during camp this year he was having ball control issues. The Eagles were minimizing his touches in the beginning of the season. You can think it’s just what EMB was posting, but the Eagles own actions made people think there is a lack of confidence in the player. Just to try and put this into perspective Derrick Henry has 11 career fumbles, but that’s after 1401 carries. That’s equates to one fumble roughly every 127 carries. Miles Sanders has 7 career fumbles in 422 career carries. That’s roughly one fumble every 60 carries. It’s a legitimate problem. Jordan Howard has 6 career fumbles in 983 carries. That’s one fumble every 164 carries. Something of note. He’s never fumbled as an Eagle. 

[jsdarkstar]

On 11/22/2021 at 5:02 PM, EagleMatt said:

Hurts not having Howard for NYG. Hope Sanders can actually fill in those shoes.

Sanders should be in for a big game. The Giants Defense doesn't scare anyone. I just hope the HC keeps running the ball.

[EazyEaglez]

4 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

Sanders should be in for a big game. The Giants Defense doesn't scare anyone. I just hope the HC keeps running the ball.

I think at this point the coach has fully embraced the run philosophy, but Howard does indeed change the Eagles run dynamic. Sanders can’t be lose with the football in this one giving the Giants good field position due to a bad fumble. Ball security is key. 

[brkmsn]

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s not just people saying he has fumble issues. It’s bad enough he fumbled in his first game back, but he almost did it twice and he bobbled the handoff too. He’s lucky the blew the play dead. Also there were reports during camp this year he was having ball control issues. The Eagles were minimizing his touches in the beginning of the season. You can think it’s just what EMB was posting, but the Eagles own actions made people think there is a lack of confidence in the player. Just to try an out this inter perspective Derrick Henry has 11 career fumbles, but that’s after 1401 carries. That’s equates to once fumble roughly every 127 carries. Miles Sanders has 7 career fumbles in 422 career caries. That’s roughly one fumble every 60 carries. It’s a legitimate problem. 

With a back like Sanders, it's not just carries --- he also has 97 career receptions and 14 KRs. So it's more like 1 out of 76 touches. You would like the number of touches to fumbles to exceed 100. If Sanders can do what he did in 2019 to fix his fumbling after the detroit game, he can achieve that milestone by the end of the year. Again, I'm not going to crucify the guy for 1 game where there were a couple issues. The "near fumble," like you said was more a result of a bad exchange from Hurts (I'm not blaming Hurts --- it just wasn't a clean exchange). Sanders didn't get it cleanly and was trying to secure it, while the defense was standing him up and trying to rip it out. In the end, there is no stat for a fumble there, so who really cares?

 

I remember when everybody wanted to give up on Runyan because of one game where Strahan owned him. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

With a back like Sanders, it's not just carries --- he also has 97 career receptions and 14 KRs. So it's more like 1 out of 76 touches. You would like the number of touches to fumbles to exceed 100. If Sanders can do what he did in 2019 to fix his fumbling after the detroit game, he can achieve that milestone by the end of the year. Again, I'm not going to crucify the guy for 1 game where there were a couple issues. The "near fumble," like you said was more a result of a bad exchange from Hurts (I'm not blaming Hurts --- it just wasn't a clean exchange). Sanders didn't get it cleanly and was trying to secure it, while the defense was standing him up and trying to rip it out. In the end, there is no stat for a fumble there, so who really cares?

 

I remember when everybody wanted to give up on Runyan because of one game where Strahan owned him. 

I don’t think it’s wrong to point out a legit concern nor am I saying I want Sanders gone either. It’s something he definitely needs to clean up in his game. He has fumble issue. Also I didn’t even add the receptions of Henry and Howard to the list, and if I did that would create the disparity even more. Either way as you say he’s still under 100 touches by a lot. He needs to get better at ball security and believe me teams will be punching at that ball, because they know he tends to be lose with it. Turnovers are killers in football. It doesn’t matter how dynamic Sanders is or can be if he’s giving the ball to the other team. 

[jsdarkstar]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I think at this point the coach has fully embraced the run philosophy, but Howard does indeed change the Eagles run dynamic. Sanders can’t be lose with the football in this one giving the Giants good field position due to a bad fumble. Ball security is key. 

Yep. The turnover battle is often the key to beating the Giants. Howard will be missed, I just hope Sanders/Scott get more carries than Hurts. He worries me. That cut he made last week could have resulted in a knee injury.