Tyson

[Alphagrand]

Tyson was the most overrated heavyweight boxer of my lifetime.  His career is made up of a big win over a small Michael Spinks and an old Larry Holmes — and he wouldn’t have beaten a prime Larry Holmes.  He couldn’t adapt once the elite heavyweights came on the scene.

He was entertaining at his best, no doubt.  Most of his wins were against hobos and boxcars, though.  Maybe if Cus D’Amato had lived a little longer ..... 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

Tyson was the most overrated heavyweight boxer of my lifetime.  His career is made up of a big win over a small Michael Spinks and an old Larry Holmes — and he wouldn’t have beaten a prime Larry Holmes.  He couldn’t adapt once the elite heavyweights came on the scene.

He was entertaining at his best, no doubt.  Most of his wins were against hobos and boxcars, though.  Maybe if Cus D’Amato had lived a little longer ..... 

Are you joking ??

[Alphagrand]

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

Are you joking ??

Nope — he didn’t just lose to Holyfield and Lewis, he didn’t even compete or belong in the same ring.  He also failed to ever show that he could at any subsequent point after.  Very overrated 

[DaEagles4Life]

10 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Nope — he didn’t just lose to Holyfield and Lewis, he didn’t even compete or belong in the same ring.  He also failed to ever show that he could at any subsequent point after.  Very overrated 

What to you is overrated? 

[DaEagles4Life]

He is probably #8 to 10 of all time heavyweights 

[Alphagrand]

11 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

What to you is overrated? 

Good question.  He was the undisputed heavyweight champion for about 3 1/2 years, got to 37-0 with 33 KO -- nothing overrated about him up to his fight with Buster Douglas, came close to returning to that form until he met Holyfield, then lost twice in a row.  After those fights I never saw him as a real factor, though.  Got KO'd by Holyfield then blew his last chance to return to glory with a disgusting display in their rematch.  I don't consider Holyfield to be a top 10 guy, btw.  Going to jail for rape from 1991 to 1995 changed his trajectory forever -- he lost 4 years of prime fighting from age 25 through 28, but has no one to blame but himself.  I would argue he was never the same fighter afterward.

He lacks a career signature win -- closest he came was over Michael Spinks, and it probably hurt his legacy that Spinks retired after their fight at 31 years old and didn't continue to dominate other fighters.  Spinks was a light heavyweight, though -- not a true heavyweight.  

[The_Omega]

Judas Priest, Roy must be crazy desperate for money

[QBhunter58]

lol 🤣

[Mike030270]

Is there a date for this yet? I don't want to  miss this

[EagleMatt]

All the tyson hype, watch he loses this.

[The_Omega]

On 11/14/2020 at 4:42 PM, Mike030270 said:

Is there a date for this yet? I don't want to  miss this

11/28.  I think that Wikipedia has already updated Roy's page to show Jan. 16, 1969 - Nov. 28, 2020.

[Captain F]

On 11/6/2020 at 10:13 AM, The_Omega said:

Judas Priest, Roy must be crazy desperate for money

I mean.. I know the tape doesnt tell the entire story, but if just going by the tape, id say Jones has the advantage. 

[EagleMatt]

Only tyson that matters is Tyson Fury

[Ace Nova]

On 10/6/2020 at 8:55 PM, Alphagrand said:

Tyson was the most overrated heavyweight boxer of my lifetime.  His career is made up of a big win over a small Michael Spinks and an old Larry Holmes — and he wouldn’t have beaten a prime Larry Holmes.  He couldn’t adapt once the elite heavyweights came on the scene.

He was entertaining at his best, no doubt.  Most of his wins were against hobos and boxcars, though.  Maybe if Cus D’Amato had lived a little longer ..... 

 

On 10/7/2020 at 12:16 AM, Alphagrand said:

Nope — he didn’t just lose to Holyfield and Lewis, he didn’t even compete or belong in the same ring.  He also failed to ever show that he could at any subsequent point after.  Very overrated 

I respectfully disagree. 

No one could touch Tyson in his prime, especially with D'Amato.  

The tragedy is that if he had continued to receive the training/discipline he had received from D'Amato and had never gotten into trouble, he'd likely would have continued to dominate for years.  He was a completely different fighter - both mentally and physically - after D'Amato and especially after his prison stint.

That said, he's still easily on anyone's top 5-10 list of all time.  The complete and utter dominance he demonstrated during the first several years of his career is unparalleled and has yet to be matched by any boxer, in any weight class. 

 

 

[Alphagrand]

16 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

 

I respectfully disagree. 

No one could touch Tyson in his prime, especially with D'Amato.  

The tragedy is that if he had continued to receive the training/discipline he had received from D'Amato and had never gotten into trouble, he'd likely would have continued to dominate for years.  He was a completely different fighter - both mentally and physically - after D'Amato and especially after his prison stint.

That said, he's still easily on anyone's top 5-10 list of all time.  The complete and utter dominance he demonstrated during the first several years of his career is unparalleled and has yet to be matched by any boxer, in any weight class. 

 

 

The statement in bold is not remotely true.  Before Tyson lost to Buster Douglas he had a record of 37-0 with 33 knockouts.  That was not unparalleled to start a career, or even unique:

George Foreman -- 40-0, 37 knockouts

Earnie Shavers -- 45-2, 44 knockouts

Joe Frazier -- 29-0, 25 knockouts

Rocky Marciano -- perfect 49-0, 43 knockouts

Joe Louis -- 37-1, 31 knockouts

Lennox Lewis -- 33-1, 29 knockouts

 

Those are just the heavyweights that come to mind.  

 

Roy Jones Jr. -- 34-0, 29 knockouts

Roberto Duran -- 31-0, 27 knockouts

 

Most, if not all, of these guys had a better class of opponent than the hobos and boxcars that Tyson was blowing through before he stepped up in class.

 

 

 

 

[Ace Nova]

23 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The statement in bold is not remotely true.  Before Tyson lost to Buster Douglas he had a record of 37-0 with 33 knockouts.  That was not unparalleled to start a career, or even unique:

George Foreman -- 40-0, 37 knockouts

Earnie Shavers -- 45-2, 44 knockouts

Joe Frazier -- 29-0, 25 knockouts

Rocky Marciano -- perfect 49-0, 43 knockouts

Joe Louis -- 37-1, 31 knockouts

Lennox Lewis -- 33-1, 29 knockouts

 

Those are just the heavyweights that come to mind.  

 

Roy Jones Jr. -- 34-0, 29 knockouts

Roberto Duran -- 31-0, 27 knockouts

 

Most, if not all, of these guys had a better class of opponent than the hobos and boxcars that Tyson was blowing through before he stepped up in class.

 

 

 

 

I'm not discussing "records".  Many boxers have had undefeated records early on or for a good portion their careers...that's not all that "uncommon".

What I am referring to is the dominance he demonstrated during those fights.   If you were his opponent, you couldn't make a mistake.  The only chance you had would have been to attempt to "tire him out" by running away from him.  If you made ONE mistake, Tyson would knock you out.  And in many cases, he would knock you unconscious...not just a "knockdown". 

No one punched harder than Tyson in his prime.  And the fear factor alone was unmatched.  His opponents would enter the ring (already) trembling. 

 

Tyson won his first 19 professional fights by knockout, 12 of them in the first round. He won the WBC title in 1986 after stopping Trevor Berbick in the second round, and added the WBA and IBF titles after defeating James Smith and Tony Tucker in 1987. He was the first heavyweight boxer to simultaneously hold the WBA, WBC and IBF titles, as well as the only heavyweight to unify them in succession. The following year, Tyson became the lineal champion when he knocked out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds of the first round.[7] He successfully defended his titles nine times, including victories over Larry Holmes and Frank Bruno.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tyson

 

 

[Alphagrand]

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

I'm not discussing "records".  Many boxers have had undefeated records early on or for a good portion their careers...that's not all that "uncommon".

What I am referring to is the dominance he demonstrated during those fights.   If you were his opponent, you couldn't make a mistake.  The only chance you had would have been to attempt to "tire him out" by running away from him.  If you made ONE mistake, Tyson would knock you out.  And in many cases, he would knock you unconscious...not just a "knockdown". 

No one punched harder than Tyson in his prime.  And the fear factor alone was unmatched.  His opponents would enter the ring (already) trembling. 

 

Again, nonsense ..... there have been many fighters who blew out their early competition in the first two rounds of most of their fights.  As soon as Tyson met up with the Holyfields and Lewis' of the world his power disintegrated.  Raping 19 year-olds and going to prison doesn't diminish a fighter's power -- he just wasn't all that great.

Buster Douglas never ran from Tyson; he stood toe-to-toe the entire fight and blasted him to the canvas -- and Tyson never beat a quality opponent from that day on.

[Ace Nova]

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

Again, nonsense ..... there have been many fighters who blew out their early competition in the first two rounds of most of their fights.  As soon as Tyson met up with the Holyfields and Lewis' of the world his power disintegrated.  Raping 19 year-olds and going to prison doesn't diminish a fighter's power -- he just wasn't all that great.

Buster Douglas never ran from Tyson; he stood toe-to-toe the entire fight and blasted him to the canvas -- and Tyson never beat a quality opponent from that day on.

D'Amato.

When Tyson lost D'Amato, he became a different fighter.  He was still able to win fights but it was apparent that D'Amato's loss completely changed his career.  Then add his failed marriage, the accusations, prison sentence, etc.  His mind wasn't in it, lost his confidence, his "mojo" so to speak.  If you've ever read his story or watched a documentary about his life, it clearly shows how it happened.  

[Alpha_TATEr]

i have a feeling grand is simply a tyson hater. 

[DaEagles4Life]

Tyson talking about Floyd

 

He's very delusional," Tyson said. "Listen, if he was anywhere near that realm of great as Muhammad Ali, he'd be able to take his kids to school by himself.

"OK, he can't take his kids to school by himself, and he's talking about he's great? Greatness is not guarding yourself from the people. 'It's being accepted by the people. He can't take his kids alone to school by himself.

"He's a little scared man. He's a very small, scared man."

 

[ToastJenkins]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:31 AM, EagleMatt said:

All the tyson hype, watch he loses this.

No chance

anyone who thinks tyson is overrated is a dolt

[we_gotta_believe]

On 11/19/2020 at 12:35 PM, Alphagrand said:

The statement in bold is not remotely true.  Before Tyson lost to Buster Douglas he had a record of 37-0 with 33 knockouts.  That was not unparalleled to start a career, or even unique:

George Foreman -- 40-0, 37 knockouts

Earnie Shavers -- 45-2, 44 knockouts

Joe Frazier -- 29-0, 25 knockouts

Rocky Marciano -- perfect 49-0, 43 knockouts

Joe Louis -- 37-1, 31 knockouts

Lennox Lewis -- 33-1, 29 knockouts

 

Those are just the heavyweights that come to mind.  

 

Roy Jones Jr. -- 34-0, 29 knockouts

Roberto Duran -- 31-0, 27 knockouts

 

Most, if not all, of these guys had a better class of opponent than the hobos and boxcars that Tyson was blowing through before he stepped up in class.

 

 

 

 

The aspect that made Tyson stand out was how fast he ended fights. A ton of them were in the first round, one of which was like in 20 seconds or something ridiculous. My uncle joked he missed the whole fight because he was still putting mayo on his sandwich that night.

When Cus was alive, Tyson was an unstoppable force that tore through everybody. The combination of elite quickness and raw power was what made him notable among other heavyweights before him.

[we_gotta_believe]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:01 PM, Alphagrand said:

Again, nonsense ..... there have been many fighters who blew out their early competition in the first two rounds of most of their fights.  As soon as Tyson met up with the Holyfields and Lewis' of the world his power disintegrated.  Raping 19 year-olds and going to prison doesn't diminish a fighter's power -- he just wasn't all that great.

Buster Douglas never ran from Tyson; he stood toe-to-toe the entire fight and blasted him to the canvas -- and Tyson never beat a quality opponent from that day on.

I was wrong earlier it was 30 seconds, but Tyson is in second place all-time in first round knockouts for title holders.

Tyson, by the numbers

8 – Fewest punches landed in a title fight win (against Michael Spinks and Carl Williams).

20 – Youngest fighter to win a piece of the heavyweight title at 20 years old in 1986.

22 – First-round knockouts in his career, the second-most among fighters who have won a title.

30 - Defeated Marvis Frazier in 30 seconds, the fastest non-title fight knockout of his career.

42 – Tyson was a 42-1 betting favorite to beat James "Buster” Douglas before he was knocked out in one of the biggest upsets in sports history.

44 – Career knockouts, tied for 11th all-time with Larry Holmes among heavyweight titlists.

91 – Knocked out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds, the sixth-fastest fight in heavyweight championship history.

[Alphagrand]

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I was wrong earlier it was 30 seconds, but Tyson is in second place all-time in first round knockouts for title holders.

Tyson, by the numbers

8 – Fewest punches landed in a title fight win (against Michael Spinks and Carl Williams).

20 – Youngest fighter to win a piece of the heavyweight title at 20 years old in 1986.

22 – First-round knockouts in his career, the second-most among fighters who have won a title.

30 - Defeated Marvis Frazier in 30 seconds, the fastest non-title fight knockout of his career.

42 – Tyson was a 42-1 betting favorite to beat James "Buster” Douglas before he was knocked out in one of the biggest upsets in sports history.

44 – Career knockouts, tied for 11th all-time with Larry Holmes among heavyweight titlists.

91 – Knocked out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds, the sixth-fastest fight in heavyweight championship history.

Speaks to his opposition as much to his ability.  I'll circle back to the beginning -- who did Tyson ever beat?  Do you consider the light heavyweight Michael Spinks to be his signature win, or the 39 year-old Larry Holmes, who hadn't fought in 2 years and took the Tyson fight on a few weeks notice?  Both point to him being the best of that period, but not toward all-time levels at all.  Who was his best win after Buster Douglas knocked him out -- Razor Ruddock?  

He got embarrassed by Evander Holyfield twice (and Holyfield isn't a top 10 all-time guy, either) and was basically beaten to death by Lennox Lewis.  He just wasn't nearly good enough against elite competition.

[Right4thePicking]

22 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Tyson talking about Floyd

 

He's very delusional," Tyson said. "Listen, if he was anywhere near that realm of great as Muhammad Ali, he'd be able to take his kids to school by himself.

"OK, he can't take his kids to school by himself, and he's talking about he's great? Greatness is not guarding yourself from the people. 'It's being accepted by the people. He can't take his kids alone to school by himself.

"He's a little scared man. He's a very small, scared man."

 

Lol. Tyson crazy on this one. Just for the simple fact of the amount of money floyd accumulated. 

22 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Tyson talking about Floyd

 

He's very delusional," Tyson said. "Listen, if he was anywhere near that realm of great as Muhammad Ali, he'd be able to take his kids to school by himself.

"OK, he can't take his kids to school by himself, and he's talking about he's great? Greatness is not guarding yourself from the people. 'It's being accepted by the people. He can't take his kids alone to school by himself.

"He's a little scared man. He's a very small, scared man."

 

Lol. Tyson crazy on this one. Just for the simple fact of the amount of money floyd accumulated.