2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

No, the right will lay blame on the cops when it's one of their own (see the Capital Insurrection, Ruby Ridge), just like the left will, and when they do it's framed as a liberty issue, not as a racial one, yet in both of those cases the person (or people) that was killed did something to deserve it.

Again, because the left is trying to do away with the police force. People look at American cities and realize that fewer, less well trained police is not a sane solution.

Just now, TEW said:

Again, because the left is trying to do away with the police force. People look at American cities and realize that fewer, less well trained police is not a sane solution.

If your point is that Defund the Police is stupid, then you'll get no argument from me.  I think it's an insanely dumb pursuit, but so do most Democrats.  That's a battle cry from the dumbest far left wackos.  But to your larger point, the right has no problem blaming the cops when one of their own is killed.  So, they're just as sympathetic to police overreach.

Just now, TEW said:

Again, because the left is trying to do away with the police force. People look at American cities and realize that fewer, less well trained police is not a sane solution.

Really? Because there was pretty "hold up" among Dems when #defundthepolice starting being pushed by the fringe left.

Biden has consistently been against defunding and has advocated for MORE funding.

The right is trying to project "defund the police" as more popular than it actually is because it's a narrative they can sell to their base. 

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

Again, because the left is trying to do away with the police force. People look at American cities and realize that fewer, less well trained police is not a sane solution.

If you don't understand a subject, you should ask questions.

1 hour ago, mayanh8 said:

One is saying that cops shouldn't be called to knife fights at all, which is absolutely bat sh** crazy. The other is saying cops need not show up to a knife fight between two people with the intention of spraying first, which taken at face value, is maybe something a normie would think.

Except the video shows that's not what happened, so your generous reading of her post is fanciful, at best.

8 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

If your point is that Defund the Police is stupid, then you'll get no argument from me.  I think it's an insanely dumb pursuit, but so do most Democrats.  That's a battle cry from the dumbest far left wackos.  But to your larger point, the right has no problem blaming the cops when one of their own is killed.  So, they're just as sympathetic to police overreach.

Yes.

Should also be noted that Ruby Ridge and Waco, which are the two most cited right wing cases of LE violence, were federal operations as opposed to police. The right likes local cops and is more skeptical of the feds, as a general rule.

2 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

If you don't understand a subject, you should ask questions.

I understand it perfectly well. Your nuanced demilitarize the police view is not what is being pushed. And frankly, after the last year of riots making the US look like a war zone, I think a lot of people will be skeptical of demilitarizing the police.

Just now, TEW said:

Yes.

Should also be noted that Ruby Ridge and Waco, which are the two most cited right wing cases of police violence, were federal operations as opposed to police. The right likes local cops and is more skeptical of the feds, as a general rule.

The Capital Insurrection should be included at this point.

And cops are cops.  They're all in law enforcement.  Separating them into federal vs. local has no bearing on the situation.  They're all in the business of stopping/investigating crime.

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

The Capital Insurrection should be included at this point.

And cops are cops.  They're all in law enforcement.  Separating them into federal vs. local has no bearing on the situation.  They're all in the business of stopping/investigating crime.

It might not for you, but it does for your target audience of the right. 

If you’re going to try to have them join the cause, you better understand their position.

Just now, TEW said:

It might not for you, but it does for your target audience of the right. 

If you’re going to try to have them join the cause, you better understand their position.

I do understand their position.  Their position is arbitrary and conspiratorial.

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

I do understand their position.  Their position is arbitrary and conspiratorial.

Not really.

It’s a fundamental difference in world view and ideology. The right believes in local governance and is skeptical of federal governance. They see their local governments as representative of themselves and the federal government as their political opposition.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

Not really.

It’s a fundamental difference in world view and ideology. The right believes in local governance and is skeptical of federal governance. They see their local governments as representative of themselves and the federal government as their political opposition.

Yes really.

Both the right and the left believe that police forces are susceptible to political or ideological pressures, which is the key to the skepticism in both cases.  But if a US citizen is being mowed down by law enforcement unjustly, then the jurisdiction of the law enforcement should be irrelevant.  Framing it as an issue of personal liberty bridges that gap because it takes the focus off of the police and puts it on our constitutional rights.

21 minutes ago, TEW said:

I understand it perfectly well. Your nuanced demilitarize the police view is not what is being pushed. And frankly, after the last year of riots making the US look like a war zone, I think a lot of people will be skeptical of demilitarizing the police.

I love how you pretend to have a clue about war zones.

Go back to your gated community. Have you ever been to a foreign country and actually visited the people who live there? Not the gated communities and hotels.

Had a meal and drinks in a place with a dirt floor? Seen an actual war zone?

13 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

I love how you pretend to have a clue about war zones.

Go back to your gated community. Have you ever been to a foreign country and actually visited the people who live there? Not the gated communities and hotels.

Had a meal and drinks in a place with a dirt floor? Seen an actual war zone?

Never had a chance to visit Minneapolis myself. I hear it's nice this time of year, though.

 

32 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Never had a chance to visit Minneapolis myself. I hear it's nice this time of year, though.

 

Gary, Indiana looks like Beirut.

Get a clue.

1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

I love how you pretend to have a clue about war zones.

Go back to your gated community. Have you ever been to a foreign country and actually visited the people who live there? Not the gated communities and hotels.

Had a meal and drinks in a place with a dirt floor? Seen an actual war zone?

I used to do charity work in Kensington back in the day. It was horrific. The white helmets should have been sent in.

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

I used to do charity work in Kensington back in the day. It was horrific. The white helmets should have been sent in.

So, hard no.

 

Got it.

1 hour ago, VanHammersly said:

Yes really.

Both the right and the left believe that police forces are susceptible to political or ideological pressures, which is the key to the skepticism in both cases.  But if a US citizen is being mowed down by law enforcement unjustly, then the jurisdiction of the law enforcement should be irrelevant.  Framing it as an issue of personal liberty bridges that gap because it takes the focus off of the police and puts it on our constitutional rights.

Key word.

4 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

So, hard no.

 

Got it.

Well, I suppose most US involved war zones have lower KIA rates and collateral damage. 

1 hour ago, Kz! said:

Never had a chance to visit Minneapolis myself. I hear it's nice this time of year, though.

 

To be fair, they probably had to start those fires to keep warm

2 hours ago, TEW said:

Not really.

It’s a fundamental difference in world view and ideology. The right believes in local governance and is skeptical of federal governance. They see their local governments as representative of themselves and the federal government as their political opposition.

Except when local governance believes masks should be a requirement for businesses in the interest of public health, or that it's in the public interest to mail absentee ballot requests to every registered voter. Then it's important that the state overrides anybody at the local level.

3 hours ago, VanHammersly said:

No, the right will lay blame on the cops when it's one of their own (see the Capital Insurrection, Ruby Ridge), just like the left will, and when they do it's framed as a liberty issue, not as a racial one, yet in both of those cases the person (or people) that was killed did something to deserve it.

Good point.  The only difference is we dont see violence and rioting in our communities towards people who have nothing to do with the grievance(s) 

being vocal about police involved in criminal action(s) is one thing. Destroying innocent peoples business’s and even lives is quite another.  

1 minute ago, SNOORDA said:

Good point.  The only difference is we dont see violence and rioting in our communities towards people who have nothing to do with the grievance(s) 

being vocal about police involved in criminal action(s) is one thing. Destroying innocent peoples business’s and even lives is quite another.  

This guy begs to differ.

2 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Good point.  The only difference is we dont see violence and rioting in our communities towards people who have nothing to do with the grievance(s) 

being vocal about police involved in criminal action(s) is one thing. Destroying innocent peoples business’s and even lives is quite another.  

But I agree with this sentence.  There's obviously a huge difference between protesting and rioting.  Protesting can bring about change.  Rioting only hurts a cause.

Other than people like Kz! it is hard to find supporters of cop killing and rioting.