Of course it does.

12 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

This is good, as it upholds free speech, which the prof is unconditionally entitled to. At the same time, I'm also of the "don't be a dick" philosophy, and this prof definitely comes off as an a-hole. Just call the student whatever the f**** they want to be called. It's much easier that way. It might feel awkward and easy to slip up with at first, but it shouldn't be that hard. Not sure how pronouns would violate any religious precepts. What part of the Bible lays out English-language pronoun usage?

This is the right answer.  Too many self-important jerks in higher-ed

14 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

This is good, as it upholds free speech, which the prof is unconditionally entitled to. At the same time, I'm also of the "don't be a dick" philosophy, and this prof definitely comes off as an a-hole. Just call the student whatever the f**** they want to be called. It's much easier that way. It might feel awkward and easy to slip up with at first, but it shouldn't be that hard. Not sure how pronouns would violate any religious precepts. What part of the Bible lays out English-language pronoun usage?

F that.  If he doesn't want to do it, he shouldn't do it.  The kids should be preparing for the real-world anyway, where people aren't always nice to you.

11 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

F that.  If he doesn't want to do it, he shouldn't do it.  The kids should be preparing for the real-world anyway, where people aren't always nice to you.

 

Yeah, but this is classroom, not a bar or somer random public establishment. Educators should treat their students with respect and, yes, do their best to be nice to them. It's just common decency. Why not just take the path of least resistance and call the student what they want to be called, rather than creating a distraction in the classroom and making a public spectacle of yourself? If the guy wants to go on a political crusade, so be it, but a lecture hall really isn't really the proper forum.

2 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Yeah, but this is classroom, not a bar or somer random public establishment. Educators should treat their students with respect and, yes, do their best to be nice to them. It's just common decency. Why not just take the path of least resistance and call the student what they want to be called, rather than creating a distraction in the classroom and making a public spectacle of yourself? If the guy wants to go on a political crusade, so be it, but a lecture hall really isn't really the proper forum.

They're fine.  I feel confident that they'll make it through the day if someone doesn't call them by their preferred pronouns.

11 hours ago, iladelphxx said:

Ezra seems to be in a self-destructive spiral right now.  He they should consider taking a step back and getting some help before he they do some lasting damage.

21 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Yeah, but this is classroom, not a bar or somer random public establishment. Educators should treat their students with respect and, yes, do their best to be nice to them. It's just common decency. Why not just take the path of least resistance and call the student what they want to be called, rather than creating a distraction in the classroom and making a public spectacle of yourself? If the guy wants to go on a political crusade, so be it, but a lecture hall really isn't really the proper forum.

Jesus, you would not have been able to handle some of my professors or my thesis committee. 

6 minutes ago, BBE said:

Jesus, you would not have been able to handle some of my professors or my thesis committee. 

 

I'm not the student described here. I'm saying I would not make an issue out of this even if I found it disagreeable. This also has nothing to do with academics, so bringing up a thesis commitee is totally irrelevant.

My thesis committee was tough, but they weren't disrespectful a-holes like this prof clearly is. There are definitely a lot of toxic ones like him in academia, but it doesn't make it right. There are major cultural issues in higher ed., with the prevalence of arrogant jerkoffs being high on the list.

11 hours ago, iladelphxx said:

Let's show the utmost respect for the person who had zero respect for the people being assaulted. That makes sense.

13 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I'm not the student described here. I'm saying I would not make an issue out of this even if I found it disagreeable. This also has nothing to do with academics, so bringing up a thesis commitee is totally irrelevant.

My thesis committee was tough, but they weren't disrespectful a-holes like this prof clearly is. There are definitely a lot of toxic ones like him in academia, but it doesn't make it right. There are major cultural issues in higher ed., with the prevalence of arrogant jerkoffs being high on the list.

Thesis committee were all faculty who treated their students just like I was treated.  In college, views are to be challenged.  The training training wheels need to be taken off and it happens at a cost to their ego.  Sorry, but that is the way of the world.  If you interpret that as being an arrogant ****, that is on you.

You are defending a student getting upset over pronouns.   I hate to see that same student in a socratic method style class.

11 minutes ago, BBE said:

Thesis committee were all faculty who treated their students just like I was treated.  In college, views are to be challenged.

 

 We're talking about a person's name/identity, not the causes of WWI or the cultural impact of 1960s counterculture. Views are to be challenged as they pertain to the curriculum. You keep relying on no-sequiturs and false equivalencies to basically say "A teacher should just call a student whatever they want, even if it's at the expense of rapport and a productive learning environment."

College is supposed to cultivate a professional environment. Call someone whatever they want to called, it doesn't affect you. It's no different than if you work in an office and some new hire shows up asking to be called something, but you insist on belittling them and calling them whatever insult you please. A call from HR wouldn't be too far away.
 

 

5 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

 We're talking about a person's name/identity, not the causes of WWI or the cultural impact of 1960s counterculture. Views are to be challenged as they pertain to the curriculum. You keep relying on no-sequiturs and false equivalencies to basically say "A teacher should be able to call a student whatever they want, even if it's at the expense of rapport and a productive learning environment."

College is supposed to cultivate a professional environment. Call someone whatever they want to called, it doesn't affect you. It's no different than if you work in an office and some new hire shows up asking to be called something, but you insist on belittling them and calling them whatever insult you please. A call from HR wouldn't be too far away.
 

 

Exactly! Oh by the way, I go by Grand Emperor and/or Stable Genius now, so you'll address me as such from now on. After all, it really isn't that hard to do and it also doesn't affect you. 

6 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Exactly! Oh by the way, I go by Grand Emperor and/or Stable Genius now, so you'll address me as such from now on. After all, it really isn't that hard to do and it also doesn't affect you. 

 

Within reason....and since this is becoming accepted decorum, it's time to just deal with it and be a professional whether we agree with the movement or not. But no, it is neither hard nor something that personally affects the one speaking, even if the name is ridiculous. I read ridiculous names off rosters every first day of school, but I just privately or mentally roll my eyes and get on with it.

10 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

 We're talking about a person's name/identity, not the causes of WWI or the cultural impact of 1960s counterculture. Views are to be challenged as they pertain to the curriculum. You keep relying on no-sequiturs and false equivalencies to basically say "A teacher should just call a student whatever they want, even if it's at the expense of rapport and a productive learning environment."

College is supposed to cultivate a professional environment. Call someone whatever they want to called, it doesn't affect you. It's no different than if you work in an office and some new hire shows up asking to be called something, but you insist on belittling them and calling them whatever insult you please. A call from HR wouldn't be too far away.
 

 

Once again, you skew the point to suit your argument.   It is not the teacher's responsibility to affirm a student's identity or gender.  That is outside of the scope.  The concept of a productive learning environment at the college level is a laughable concept.   The student is there to learn.  The professor to transmit knowledge and critical thinking skills and to objectively evaluate the student's progress toward that end. How a student feels is irrelevant to that paradigm.  

 

And my historians are a subjective lot.

4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Within reason....

see, this is where the trouble starts, because people will never agree on what this means. 

 

this prof reminds me of house. 

4 minutes ago, BBE said:

The student is there to learn.  The professor to transmit knowledge and critical thinking skills and to objectively evaluate the student's progress toward that end. How a student feels is irrelevant to that paradigm.  

 

It is the professor's job to be a professional, and in 2022, that, unfortunately, requires using someone's preferred pronouns. The professor is also tasked with creating a welcoming learning environment so that learning can occur, and taking up this frivolous crusade against a student's identity injects personal animus into an academic environment. What the student is called should in no way interfere with evaluating a student's academic competency. If a professor can't objectively evaluate a student's progress through the curriculum because their mind is too wrapped up in culture wars, then he's not able to perform his job effectively.

1 hour ago, VanHammersly said:

F that.  If he doesn't want to do it, he shouldn't do it.  The kids should be preparing for the real-world anyway, where people aren't always nice to you.

Being **** to a trans student is pretty lame regardless if it prepares them for the real world or not.  Just my 2 cents.

12 hours ago, iladelphxx said:

"he's" a moron.

Just now, Dave Moss said:

Being **** to a trans student is pretty lame regardless if it prepares them for the real world or not.  Just my 2 cents.

Spoiler Alert: Most people in the world are a-holes. College should prepare these snowflakes for the the real world, not shelter them from ever feeling pain. So you have one professor that doesn't use your preferred pronoun? So what. I didn't meltdown when people professors mispronounced my name -- hell, I had a couple that just called me Victor because they couldn't be bothered. I was there to learn from them, not the other way around.

If you can't handle this, then just give up and go move into your parents' basement.

4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

It is the professor's job to be a professional, and in 2022, that, unfortunately, requires using someone's preferred pronouns. The professor is also tasked with creating a welcoming learning environment so that learning can occur, and taking up this frivolous crusade against a student's identity injects personal animus into an academic environment. What the student is called should in no way interfere with evaluating a student's academic competency. If a professor can't objectively evaluate a student's progress through the curriculum because their mind is too wrapped up in culture wars, then he's not able to perform his job effectively.

No, it does not.

 

Did the professor hold the pronouns against the student?  No.  

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Spoiler Alert: Most people in the world are a-holes. College should prepare these snowflakes for the the real world, not shelter them from ever feeling pain. So you have one professor that doesn't use your preferred pronoun? So what. I didn't meltdown when people professors mispronounced my name -- hell, I had a couple that just called me Victor because they couldn't be bothered. I was there to learn from them, not the other way around.

If you can't handle this, then just give up and go move into your parents' basement.

I upset a trans student and they just dropped my class.  What exactly do you think they learned from that experience?

1 minute ago, Dave Moss said:

I upset a trans student and they just dropped my class.  What exactly do you think they learned from that experience?

We learned that student is a snowflake that will fail in the real world.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We learned that student is a snowflake that will fail in the real world.

Maybe, but most trans students are pretty sensitive about their identity when they’re 18ish.  Being a jerk about it is unnecessary. You’re not teaching that person anything as a professor.

Just now, Dave Moss said:

Maybe, but most trans students are pretty sensitive about their identity when they’re 18ish.  Being a jerk about it is unnecessary. You’re not teaching that person anything as a professor.

And if we coddle them for 4 years, they'll stay sensitive little babies when they are 22 and in a mean world that couldn't care less about their feelings. Would I go out of my way to make fun of them? No. Will I apologize if I use the wrong pronoun? No. If they can't handle that, then they have no business being in a college environment anyway.

11 minutes ago, BBE said:

Did the professor hold the pronouns against the student?  No.  

 

We don't really know if that's the case, but it's not hard to imagine him doing so. Regardless of whether this produced some inner conflict for the professor, it has undoubtedly led to awkward or heated exchanges in the classroom, which creates a distraction, and if this is making local and national news, that distraction is magnified intensely across the university. Ultimately, it's just not worth backlash and controversy for someone to do this in the workplace. It makes the environment toxic and damages your standing with colleagues.