February 4, 20232 yr 40 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: Nor will the planes. Military Jet (F-15 Eagle) The McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle is an American twin-engine fighter designed by defense company McDonnell Douglas with many variants to the design. It is powered by Pratt & Whitney engines that allow the jet to fly as high as 65,000 feet.Jul 28, 2022
February 4, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Bill said: It’s at 60,000 feet. You kinda do because guns aren’t going to get to that altitude, and even if they could it’s not going to pop and fly around like a Looney Tunes cartoon. lolwut? You're really trying to say an F-15 can't get close enough to use guns on that?
February 4, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Talkingbirds said: Military Jet (F-15 Eagle) The McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle is an American twin-engine fighter designed by defense company McDonnell Douglas with many variants to the design. It is powered by Pratt & Whitney engines that allow the jet to fly as high as 65,000 feet.Jul 28, 2022 It can go even higher. I think it set the record for highest flight for a fighter.
February 4, 20232 yr https://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-f15-streak-eagle-set-8-world-records-2019-9 Granted, it was purpose-built but goes to show you that it's not much of an issue for one get in range.
February 4, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, jsdarkstar said: The U.S. Navy shot down a satellite in space using a missile. It should be able to shoot down the balloon. Why not just use an airborne laser. Honestly, I think that's playing right into their hands. For surveillance purposes, a balloon isn't any better than a satellite, so that begs the question of why they're floating one out over this way. Could it be to see precisely how we'd react to try to down it? If so, then no need to get too sophisticated, just track its flight until the risk of harming anything on land is the lowest, and use the oldest tech available to drop it. Then tell those F'ers if they do it again, we're gonna have problems.
February 4, 20232 yr Quote https://nypost.com/2023/02/04/biden-administration-tried-to-hide-chinese-spy-balloon-from-american-public/?utm_source=nypost&utm_campaign=android_nyp Biden administration tried to hide Chinese spy balloon from American public President Biden and his administration knew for nearly a week that a Chinese spy balloon was hovering in U.S. airspace — but kept the incursion secret, fearing it would derail Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s planned meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing.... ... Sources told Bloomberg that Milley and Austin argued against shooting the craft down due to the danger its debris could pose to the public. Biden initially wanted it destroyed, but acquiesced, according to the report. But the president also chose to conceal the crisis from the American public. Instead, his administration sought an explanation from the Chinese embassy in Washington — while making the finishing touches on plans for Blinken’s diplomatic visit to China on Sunday. The administration finally came clean to the public Thursday, after the Billings Gazette, a local Montana paper, published photos of the floating orb and the story jumped into the national media. I don't care what party you support that's BS and a move that signals to China we are their b**ches ahead of the planned meetings. I don't know who advised Biden to leave it be, but they should be fired or relieved of command. Want to make a call first? Fine, but then knock it the heck out of orbit.
February 4, 20232 yr 10 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: chose to conceal the crisis A crisis? This is the type of sensationalism that make it nearly impossible to take the nyp seriously. It's a F'ing balloon that poses virtually no threat to us at its current altitude. Yes, it's a violation of our airspace, but it's not like it's a supersonic aircraft or a war games exercise encroaching on our turf.
February 4, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: I don't care what party you support that's BS and a move that signals to China we are their b**ches ahead of the planned meetings. I don't know who advised Biden to leave it be, but they should be fired or relieved of command. Want to make a call first? Fine, but then knock it the heck out of orbit. The NY Post is a Joke.
February 4, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: A crisis? This is the type of sensationalism that make it nearly impossible to take the nyp seriously. It's a F'ing balloon that poses virtually no threat to us at its current altitude. Yes, it's a violation of our airspace, but it's not like it's a supersonic aircraft or a war games exercise encroaching on our turf. Yeah, it is a crisis when you knowingly allow an enemy spy balloon to enter your airspace and do nothing about it. Is it being sensationalized? A bit, but it's not a small thing either. It sends the wrong messages to our enemies, and there are ramifications, which is why Biden wanted it destroyed. Also, no threat at that altitude? They along with Russia now know they can send a balloon and this admin won't take it down. A detonation at that height and location would cause an EMP that knocks out every electronic device including trucks and cars in most of the US. China would never do that, right? How about Putin? We agree it's being sensationalized, but this isn't a small thing, and it does pose a threat. Biden had the correct instincts and whoever told him to hold off should be removed.
February 4, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: The NY Post is a Joke. So? Doesn't mean they aren't right in this instance.
February 4, 20232 yr 17 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: Yeah, it is a crisis when you knowingly allow an enemy spy balloon to enter your airspace and do nothing about it. Is it being sensationalized? A bit, but it's not a small thing either. It sends the wrong messages to our enemies, and there are ramifications, which is why Biden wanted it destroyed. Also, no threat at that altitude? They along with Russia now know they can send a balloon and this admin won't take it down. A detonation at that height and location would cause an EMP that knocks out every electronic device including trucks and cars in most of the US. China would never do that, right? How about Putin? We agree it's being sensationalized, but this isn't a small thing, and it does pose a threat. Biden had the correct instincts and whoever told him to hold off should be removed. No dude, just stop already. Kruschev staging missiles 90 miles off the coast of Miami was a crisis. This is a F'ing balloon. And your claim that it could be an EMP that would knock out most of the US is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. We're the most technologically advanced nation on the planet and it's not even particularly close. We already know exactly what it is and what it isn't. It's not some Trojan horse, if it were actually capable of detonation, it would've been dropped the minute it crossed into our airspace. Stop watching movies and get a grip.
February 4, 20232 yr An EMP blast would not be delivered by a balloon that 1. Does not go high enough to optimize the payload and 2. Cannot be easily controlled directionally. I agree it's weird but it's not a "crisis". Satellites can do anything a balloon can do better in terms of "spying", and an EMP would be delivered by ICBM accompanied by a nuclear blast. If we wanted to shoot the balloon down we could. If we aren't to me that suggests it's not viewed as much of a threat. It's only making news because of politics.
February 4, 20232 yr Just now, we_gotta_believe said: No dude, just stop already. Kruschev staging missiles 90 miles off the coast of Miami was a crisis. This is a F'ing balloon. And your claim that it could be an EMP that would knock out most of the US is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. We're the most technologically advanced nation on the planet and it's not even particularly close. We already know exactly what it is and what it isn't. It's not some Trojan horse, if it were actually capable of detonation, it would've gone the minute it crossed into our airspace. Stop watching movies and get a grip. I guess we'll have to live with disagreeing on this. There are levels of crisis that don't have to immediately jump to the 60s and Cuba. Anytime we let enemies encroach upon our airspace it's a crisis. No, I'm not saying this one is an EMP, which I stated and you glossed over, but they along with our other enemies know they can now send a balloon without it being taken out. The next one could be. Even if they are all just spy balloons you take them out and Biden was correct. Biden also did the right thing cancelling Blinken's visit over this, but it's a small thing to you, so I'm sure you'll think that is overreaction on their part. He probably read the NY Post story and got caught up in the sensationalism.
February 4, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: An EMP blast would not be delivered by a balloon that 1. Does not go high enough to optimize the payload and 2. Cannot be easily controlled directionally. I agree it's weird but it's not a "crisis". Satellites can do anything a balloon can do better in terms of "spying", and an EMP would be delivered by ICBM accompanied by a nuclear blast. If we wanted to shoot the balloon down we could. If we aren't to me that suggests it's not viewed as much of a threat. It's only making news because of politics. I read it's in the upper stratosphere. It could be delivered at that height, yes.It also doesn't have to be that accurate, just some place over the middle of the US would do massive damage. I've also read it wouldn't be as easy to shoot down with conventional aircraft as people think. This one is just a balloon but it's not something we should have allowed. Either way my point is Biden was correct and whomever told him to not do it should be removed. You all can get caught up in keywords.
February 4, 20232 yr 12 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: I guess we'll have to live with disagreeing on this. There are levels of crisis that don't have to immediately jump to the 60s and Cuba. Anytime we let enemies encroach upon our airspace it's a crisis. No, I'm not saying this one is an EMP, which I stated and you glossed over, but they along with our other enemies know they can now send a balloon without it being taken out. The next one could be. Even if they are all just spy balloons you take them out and Biden was correct. Biden also did the right thing cancelling Blinken's visit over this, but it's a small thing to you, so I'm sure you'll think that is overreaction on their part. He probably read the NY Post story and got caught up in the sensationalism. Ok so let me get this straight... In this hypothetical scenario of yours, you seriously think, with all the technology of the US Military at its disposal, this administration would let an "EMP balloon" () just float into our airspace and refuse to shoot it down because we're just stupid or scared? Is that what you're saying? That we'd know it's a threat (on the level of which you laughably claim could knock out most of the US) and we'd just be like, "Hmmm, I don't know what we should do here... I guess we'll let the balloon just keep on floating and hope for the best!" I mean, do you actually hear how stupid that sounds? How does that make any sense to you whatsoever?
February 4, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: I read it's in the upper stratosphere. It could be delivered at that height, yes.It also doesn't have to be that accurate, just some place over the middle of the US would do massive damage. I've also read it wouldn't be as easy to shoot down with conventional aircraft as people think. This one is just a balloon but it's not something we should have allowed. Either way my point is Biden was correct and whomever told him to not do it should be removed. You all can get caught up in keywords. Whatever it is you're reading, you should stop. Find better sources and you won't fall prey so easily to such sensationalist nonsense.
February 4, 20232 yr 12 hours ago, Bill said: That’s not it. It’s not over Montana anymore. You can see approximately where it’s at by where the RC-135 is at that’s trailing it over on ADSB exchange. There might be some issues in shooting it down because it might be an ELINT surveillance platform, [b]or we just might not be able to. [/b]Modern radar guided missiles are designed to not be fooled by chaff, and they recognize chaff because it doesn’t really move comparative to an airframe, and this balloon isn’t really motoring. Oh yes, the greatest, most technologically advanced military in the history of the world, helpless against a hot air balloon. You don’t actually believe that.
February 4, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Ok so let me get this straight... you seriously think, with all the technology of the US Military at its disposal, this administration would let an "EMP balloon" () just float into our airspace and refuse to shoot it down because we're just stupid or scared? Is that what you're saying? That we'd know it's a threat (on the level of which you laughably claim could knock out most of the US) and we'd just be like, "Hmmm, I don't know what we should do here... I guess we'll let the balloon just keep on floating and hope for the best!" I mean, do you actually hear how stupid that sounds? How does that make any sense to you whatsoever? You think they ran it through a TSA x-ray machine? I think they assumed it was a spy balloon and Biden was correct in seeing it as a threat that should be taken down. Someone told him to let it go and they should be fired or relieved of command. Going forward, yes, I don't love the idea of Putin, NK, Iran, or others thinking this is how we'll react if they send one. Going forward, and I'm typing it twice, going forward that sets a bad precedent that makes us look weak. This one was a spy balloon, but yes, I'm not wrong in saying if it's in the upper stratosphere it could pose a greater threat to us than you and others may understand.You don't let this happen and Biden was on point.
February 4, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Whatever it is you're reading, you should stop. Find better sources and you won't fall prey so easily to such sensationalist nonsense. I've now typed Biden was right maybe five or six times today, something I never imagined ever happening. You can get caught up in the sensationalism and keywords. The bottom line is it never should have happened. Period.
February 4, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, Diehardfan said: You think they ran it through a TSA x-ray machine? I think they assumed it was a spy balloon and Biden was correct in seeing it as a threat that should be taken down. Someone told him to let it go and they should be fired or relieved of command. Going forward, yes, I don't love the idea of Putin, NK, Iran, or others thinking this is how we'll react if they send one. Going forward, and I'm typing it twice, going forward that sets a bad precedent that makes us look weak. This one was a spy balloon, but yes, I'm not wrong in saying if it's in the upper stratosphere it could pose a greater threat to us than you and others may understand. Ya totally, just a wild guess I'm sure. For all they know, it could be a pinata filled with tactical nukes!
February 4, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: I've now typed Biden was right maybe five or six times today, something I never imagined ever happening. You can get caught up in the sensationalism and keywords. The bottom line is it never should have happened. Period. You literally just said you read something that told you it was in the "upper stratosphere". I thought for sure the "EMP balloon" was the dumbest thing I'd read today. I was wrong.
February 4, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said: Ya totally, just a wild guess I'm sure. For all they know, it could be a pinata filled with tactical nukes! OK. You don't see them as a threat and are cool with this. Got it. We disagree, which is fine.
February 4, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said: You literally just said you read something that told you it was in the "upper stratosphere". I thought for sure the "EMP balloon" was the dumbest thing I'd read today. I was wrong. And? It is in the stratosphere.
February 4, 20232 yr @we_gotta_believe https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/balloons-called-top-delivery-platform-for-nuclear-emp-attack Quote Dry run: Balloons called top ‘delivery platform’ for nuclear EMP attack Paul Bedard 4–5 minutes High-altitude balloons, such as the one China has floated over mountain state military bases this week, are considered a key "delivery platform” for secret nuclear strikes on America’s electric grid, according to intelligence officials. Spy balloons, used by Japan to drop bombs during World War II, are now far more sophisticated, can fly at up to 200,000 feet, evade detection, and can carry a small nuclear bomb that, if exploded in the atmosphere, would shut down the grid and wipe out electronics in a many-state-wide area. The threat of balloon-launched electromagnetic pulse attacks was warned about by a congressional EMP commission and inside the military several years ago. In a 2015 report for the American Leadership & Policy Foundation, Air Force Maj. David Stuckenberg, one of the nation’s leading EMP experts, wrote extensively about the threat balloons carrying bombs pose to national security. "Using a balloon as a WMD/WME platform could provide adversaries with a pallet of altitudes and payload options with which to maximize offensive effects against the U.S.,” he wrote in the report. "A high altitude balloon could be designed, created, and launched in a matter of months. There is nothing to prevent several hundred pounds of weapons material from being delivered to altitude,” he added. On Friday, he told Secrets, "China’s recent balloon flyover of the United States is clearly a provocative and aggressive act. It was most likely a type of dry run meant to send a strategic message to the USA. We must not take this for granted.” Now in the private sector, Stuckenberg, a national security expert and scientist who led the Defense Department’s EMP Task Force and chairman of the American Leadership & Policy Foundation, pointed to Japan’s World War II "Project Fugo” that targeted the U.S. with balloon bombs as an example of the threat. "Not since WWII has North America faced a threat of this nature. Project FuGo in Japan used balloons to float bombs on the trade-winds across the Pacific to the U.S. and Canada,” he told Secrets. EMP experts have warned that China, North Korea, Russia, and Iran have programs to hit the U.S. grid with electromagnetic pulse weapons that would cut the cord for a year or longer. A congressional report has warned that a blackout that long could result in millions of deaths. Stuckenberg cited the research of the late Peter Pry, who headed a congressional commission on EMP and reported on the potential of a balloon-launched attack. He wrote in the report, "Peter Pry, a former CIA analyst and member of the Congressional Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from EMP Attack, stated, ‘Imagine the consequences of a balloon EMP attack that damages and destroys electronic systems at the speed of light within an EMP field with a radius of hundreds of kilometers. The Eastern Grid generates 75% of U.S. electricity and supports most of the population.” Pry also notes, "Virtually any nuke detonated anywhere over the Eastern Grid will collapse the entire Eastern Grid, not just the area within the EMP field, because of cascading failures that will ripple outward.” Stuckenberg concluded in his paper, "In the case of EMP, the consequences of a failure to anticipate ALL delivery modes within the reach of an imaginative enemy could be immediate and widespread. As guardians of our nation’s future, planners must leave no stone unturned in the effort to deprive America’s enemies of low cost, lowtech, high-consequence military options.” China has said that its balloon flying over Montana is safe and not a threat. The Pentagon has rebuffed calls to shoot it down because it could be a safety issue to those below it. I know...anything that isn't CNN/MSBNC/NYT can't be correct in any way. This isn't possible I'm sure. This one was a spy balloon, but Biden was correct in wanting it gone either way.
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