THE FIRE GANNON AND HIRE FANGIO NOW THREAD

[NJWolverEagle11]

24 minutes ago, MF POON said:

To be fair, the defense did play somewhat better in the 2nd half because they pressured more, but they were terrible on 3rd down all game. They also couldn't defend the run (we really miss Davis). The main issue was not getting stops on 3rd down. They didn't give up a lot of TD's, but allowed Wash to eat too much clock. They only got a TD in the 2nd half due to The eagles trying to create a miracle and turning it over 

So many, not all, were 3rd and short because of giving up yards on 1st/2nd down runs

[LacesOut]

Reminded me of last year. Adjustments came too late. He seems mentally lazy. 

[PoconoDon]

Here's his 15 years of NFL experience. Zero D-Line or LB'er coaching experience. All D-backs and even that was only full time for 3 seasons. He has no business being a DC yet. Must know the right people because on merit, he's proven nothing so far.

• Atlanta Falcons (2007)
  Defensive quality control coach
• Tennessee Titans (2012–2013)
  Defensive quality control coach
• Minnesota Vikings (2014–2017)
  Assistant defensive backs coach - the defensive backs the Eagles obliterated in the NFCCG.
• Indianapolis Colts (2018–2020)
  Defensive backs coach - 20th pass defense when he left.
• Philadelphia Eagles (2021–present)
  Defensive coordinator - 2nd year and still no apparent clue how to build, train, and deploy a front 7 to take over games.
• PLEASE SOMEBODY HIRE HIM AS A HC NEXT YEAR!!

[rrfierce]

hate they way he holds that scratty bit of paper over his mouth too. 

 

Proper amateurish

[LacesOut]

Is Fletcher Cox just cooked/done?

[PoconoDon]

Just now, LacesOut said:

Is Fletcher Cox just cooked/done?

Yes, I think he is and I think he has been for a while. His problem was always a small gas tank. Too many times he was standing on the sideline when they needed him to dominate. Every snap he just stands up and never disrupts things in the backfield.

[The Holy Vagabond]

It seems to me that all Gannon cares about is his precious defensive backfield because  of his background of being a db coach since 2013. He obviously couldn’t give a crap about teams running the ball. And he doesn’t blitz because he’s so scared to put his precious defensive backfield on an island or in tight man-to-man at any point 
 

i can’t believe I’m about to say this but…… I kinda wish we had Jim Schwartz back. 

[we_gotta_believe]

20 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Here's his 15 years of NFL experience. Zero D-Line or LB'er coaching experience. All D-backs and even that was only full time for 3 seasons. He has no business being a DC yet. Must know the right people because on merit, he's proven nothing so far.

• Atlanta Falcons (2007)
  Defensive quality control coach
• Tennessee Titans (2012–2013)
  Defensive quality control coach
• Minnesota Vikings (2014–2017)
  Assistant defensive backs coach - the defensive backs the Eagles obliterated in the NFCCG.
• Indianapolis Colts (2018–2020)
  Defensive backs coach - 20th pass defense when he left.
• Philadelphia Eagles (2021–present)
  Defensive coordinator - 2nd year and still no apparent clue how to build, train, and deploy a front 7 to take over games.
• PLEASE SOMEBODY HIRE HIM AS A HC NEXT YEAR!!

To be fair, this isn't all that uncommon or disqualifying on its own. Dick LeBeau was one of the best of all-time and I don't think he ever had DL or LB coaching experience either.

NOTE: I'm NOT saying Gannon is in any way shape or form as good as, or in the same style of a DC as LeBeau, only that a lack of front-7 coaching experience isn't necessarily a non-starter as you've implied, especially not in the modern version of the game where the vast majority of offenses are so pass-heavy.

[The Holy Vagabond]

8 minutes ago, LacesOut said:

Is Fletcher Cox just cooked/done?

Yes and no. He’s gonna give you a flash once a drive and only very early in a drive. He needs to have his snaps cut at least because he just gets gassed and his explosion is all but gone. 
 

i really don’t think these guys are taught/told to shoot gaps though. Gannon is just so passive it’s infuriating. 

[20dawk4life]

2 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Yes, to some extent, but only if the new DC brings an attacking style of defense up front. they wait for everything to come to them and by that time, it's too late. Why does Cox just stand up on almost every play rather than stay low and try to split the double team with all his might 20 times a game? Because the soft DC wants him to play that way. Gannon is a play it safe to the extreme type of coach.

Last night I saw only 1 play where he brought pressure by design. The Eagles were backed up deep in the red zone and the result was they stopped Washington. Imagine sprinkling that in 20-25 times a game. He won't do it though. Too risky. Might give up a big play. Newsflash, they gave up big plays anyway. He's got the front 7 playing like D-backs in soft zone coverage. It's waiving the white flag from the start and worthy of being fired over. Still, he knows the right people I guess, so there won't be any real consequences for his failure, just a HC job somewhere. I hope he gets it this off season just so he goes away. Enough is enough with his nonsense.

To some extent that’s right but it’s also up the players to not get pushed around, recognize the play, and make a play. Washington was too physical for us. All night their game plan was run up the middle to smash into people break a tackle or drag a LB with you to gain yards. Then on third down quick pass to neutralize the pass rush and pick up 5 yards for the first. They hardly had any negative plays. When you can consistently have 0 gains be your negative plays you are going to win. 

[The Holy Vagabond]

Also, is there really a front 7? We play 5-2-4/4-2-5/5-1-5 all the time. I don’t think there’s been a single play outside of the 2 yard line where 3 lbs are on the field. 
 

ultimately, the problem is Gannon is too passive, too safe, too scared. 
 I KNOW Sirianni knows this. There’s been rumblings of Sirianni having heated discussions with him last season. I’m pretty sure he’s gonna get on gannon’s ass after this game. There’s too much talent on the field defensively for this team to look so helpless against anybody. Let alone the commanders. 

[PoconoDon]

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

To be fair, this isn't all that uncommon or disqualifying on its own. Dick LeBeau was one of the best of all-time and I don't think he ever had DL or LB coaching experience either.

NOTE: I'm NOT saying Gannon is in any way shape or form as good as, or in the same style of a DC as LeBeau, only that a lack of front-7 coaching experience isn't necessarily a non-starter as you've implied, especially not in the modern version of the game where the vast majority of offenses are so pass-heavy.

I understand that there are exceptions, but I simply believe that cross training coaches is as important as cross training players. He's getting fast tracked to a HC job and I'm fine with that. It moves him on from us. Incomplete experience across all units on defense may not be an automatic non-starter, but it's also not a reason for confidence in his ability to coordinate a whole defense.

To me, offenses being pass happy increases the need for defensive pressure and that's produced up front. Whether they use LB'ers or Safeties in the box as the 6th and/or 7th man doesn't matter so long as they have a commitment to getting after the QB. It's not even only how many he's using, it's how he's using them. This defense seems like it lacks creativity and controlled aggression when it comes to design. Every time they line up, it feels the same. I'm never surprised by their approach and the opponents aren't either any more. 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

To be fair, this isn't all that uncommon or disqualifying on its own. Dick LeBeau was one of the best of all-time and I don't think he ever had DL or LB coaching experience either.

NOTE: I'm NOT saying Gannon is in any way shape or form as good as, or in the same style of a DC as LeBeau, only that a lack of front-7 coaching experience isn't necessarily a non-starter as you've implied, especially not in the modern version of the game where the vast majority of offenses are so pass-heavy.

LeBeau should be the first ever guy to enter the HOF as both a player and a coach.   Likely won't happen though, as coordinators don't get in... which is a real shame.

[we_gotta_believe]

1 hour ago, PoconoDon said:

I understand that there are exceptions, but I simply believe that cross training coaches is as important as cross training players. He's getting fast tracked to a HC job and I'm fine with that. It moves him on from us. Incomplete experience across all units on defense may not be an automatic non-starter, but it's also not a reason for confidence in his ability to coordinate a whole defense.

To me, offenses being pass happy increases the need for defensive pressure and that's produced up front. Whether they use LB'ers or Safeties in the box as the 6th and/or 7th man doesn't matter so long as they have a commitment to getting after the QB. It's not even only how many he's using, it's how he's using them. This defense seems like it lacks creativity and controlled aggression when it comes to design. Every time they line up, it feels the same. I'm never surprised by their approach and the opponents aren't either any more. 

Again, this is not really as rare or exceptional as you're implying. I just looked up some of DCs from the best defenses in the league right now, like the Bills, Bucs, and Bengals. Leslie Frazier, Todd Bowles, and Lou Anarumo, all of which have never coached LBs or DL before. "Incomplete experience" ain't exactly holding these guys back.

[PoconoDon]

26 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Again, this is not really as rare or exceptional as you're implying. I just looked up some of DCs from the best defenses in the league right now, like the Bills, Bucs, and Bengals. Leslie Frazier, Todd Bowles, and Lou Anarumo, all of which have never coached LBs or DL before. "Incomplete experience" ain't exactly holding these guys back.

For every Frazier, who started as a small college HC, there's one or more Ken Norton Jr.'s ,who was a LB'ers only coach, and then failed as a DC twice. Again, I never said it was rare, that's your word. All I'm saying is that a fully trained assistant coach logically stands a better chance to succeed as a coordinator, than one who needs others to handle the units he's inexperienced with. Nothing is 100%, and some guys will thrive no matter what, but coaching versatility is a real thing, and at the coordinator level, is very important. 

[we_gotta_believe]

7 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

For every Frazier, who started as a small college HC, there's one or more Ken Norton Jr.'s ,who was a LB'ers only coach, and then failed as a DC twice. Again, I never said it was rare, that's your word. All I'm saying is that a fully trained assistant coach logically stands a better chance to succeed as a coordinator, than one who needs others to handle the units he's inexperienced with. Nothing is 100%, and some guys will thrive no matter what, but coaching versatility is a real thing, and at the coordinator level, is very important. 

Your words were "there are exceptions" when I brought up an example of an all-time great DC who was a DBs coach predominantly. The word exception implies something is rare in order for it to be an exception. Your words were, "he has no business being a DC yet" after pointing out he lacked experience at the DL and LB positional levels. The implication again being that said lack of experience is a disqualifier. I merely provided examples contrary to the claim. There are many other examples, obviously, but I doubt anyone would ever say the three current DCs I named "had no business being a DC" based on their lack of experience coaching LBs or DL.

[PoconoDon]

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Your words were "there are exceptions" when I brought up an example of an all-time great DC who was a DBs coach predominantly. The word exception implies something is rare in order for it to be an exception. Your words were, "he has no business being a DC yet" after pointing out he lacked experience at the DL and LB positional levels. The implication again being that said lack of experience is a disqualifier. I merely provided examples contrary to the claim. There are many other examples, obviously, but I doubt anyone would ever say the three current DCs I named "had no business being a DC" based on their lack of experience coaching LBs or DL.

The word exception doesn't necessarily mean rare, it just means not conforming to the norm (the rule). You can have a 20% exception rate on something but the rule still holds 80% of the time. The requirement that it be rare is your requirement, and that's fine. I'm not judging you. I simply hold no such requirement because the definition doesn't demand it.

Would you agree that there are more position coach turned failed DC's in history than highly successful ones? If so, then the highly successful ones are the exception to the rule. Given that, then yes, there are exceptions. 

As for Gannon, I don't think he has any business being a DC yet. I think he's a favored son who is being pushed through the ranks quickly towards a HC job. The thing is, he may turn out to be a great HC, and we won't know until he proves it. I just don't see him as a great Coordinator right now. Howie got him some good talent, and we're only half way through the season, so there's time for Gannon to rise up and show brilliance as a DC as he orchestrates all 3 levels of the defense in concert to win games. I actually hope he does because it's good for the Eagles and I want him to succeed, but I'm just not expecting him to perform at that level. 

[we_gotta_believe]

21 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

The word exception doesn't necessarily mean rare, it just means not conforming to the norm (the rule). You can have a 20% exception rate on something but the rule still holds 80% of the time. The requirement that it be rare is your requirement, and that's fine. I'm not judging you. I simply hold no such requirement because the definition doesn't demand it.

Again, I gave you 3 examples of the top defenses in the league. If you count ours (which you should because by any measure, we are still one of the top defenses) that's 4 examples. Looking deeper, the Broncos and Rams also have DCs without LBs and DL experience. That's now 6 out of the top 10 defenses. Seems more and more like your requirement on positional cross-training before becoming a successful DC is the actual exception, rather than the rule.

Quote

Would you agree that there are more position coach turned failed DC's in history than highly successful ones? If so, then the highly successful ones are the exception to the rule. Given that, then yes, there are exceptions. 

 

There are more failed DC's in general than there are highly successful ones, so your question is rather quite pointless and misframed. 

Quote

As for Gannon, I don't think he has any business being a DC yet. I think he's a favored son who is being pushed through the ranks quickly towards a HC job. The thing is, he may turn out to be a great HC, and we won't know until he proves it. I just don't see him as a great Coordinator right now. Howie got him some good talent, and we're only half way through the season, so there's time for Gannon to rise up and show brilliance as a DC as he orchestrates all 3 levels of the defense in concert to win games. I actually hope he does because it's good for the Eagles and I want him to succeed, but I'm just not expecting him to perform at that level. 

We're at week 10 and we still have a top 5 defense. I understand the loss last night was frustrating, and that the defense had a really bad game, but your expectations of performance should be based on the entire season, not just the most recent game. Will we still be a top-5 defense by season's end? Maybe, maybe not. But so far, I think he's doing okay based on the results we have to date. Saying someone who is at the helm of a top-5 defense "has no business being a DC" is a bit strange, especially when you list a disqualifier that many other top DCs also fall under.

[PoconoDon]

11 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Again, I gave you 3 examples of the top defenses in the league. If you count ours (which you should because by any measure, we are still one of the top defenses) that's 4 examples. Looking deeper, the Broncos and Rams also have DCs without LBs and DL experience. That's now 6 out of the top 10 defenses. Seems more and more like your requirement on positional cross-training before becoming a successful DC is the actual exception, rather than the rule.

There are more failed DC's in general than there are highly successful ones, so your question is rather quite pointless and mis-framed. 

We're at week 10 and we still have a top 5 defense. I understand the loss last night was frustrating, and that the defense had a really bad game, but your expectations of performance should be based on the entire season, not just the most recent game. Will we still be a top-5 defense by season's end? Maybe, maybe not. But so far, I think he's doing okay based on the results we have to date. Saying someone who is at the helm of a top-5 defense "has no business being a DC" is a bit strange, especially when you list a disqualifier that many other top DCs also fall under.

We're going to disagree on several points, which is fine. As for Gannon, the rest of the season will bear out if he is a top shelf DC or not. If he does shine, great! and I'm 100% fine with being wrong about him. Time will tell if he finds ways for the Eagles front to change the course of games in their favor or not. I'll be watching and hoping he does. 

 

[Talonblood]

6 hours ago, rrfierce said:

hate they way he holds that scratty bit of paper over his mouth too. 

 

Proper amateurish

Nobody is trying to read his lips, because what he is saying is "I'm sorry that didn't work- again" all the time to his players.

[Procus]

On 11/15/2022 at 10:55 AM, PoconoDon said:

Here's his 15 years of NFL experience. Zero D-Line or LB'er coaching experience. All D-backs and even that was only full time for 3 seasons. He has no business being a DC yet. Must know the right people because on merit, he's proven nothing so far.

• Atlanta Falcons (2007)
  Defensive quality control coach
• Tennessee Titans (2012–2013)
  Defensive quality control coach
• Minnesota Vikings (2014–2017)
  Assistant defensive backs coach - the defensive backs the Eagles obliterated in the NFCCG.
• Indianapolis Colts (2018–2020)
  Defensive backs coach - 20th pass defense when he left.
• Philadelphia Eagles (2021–present)
  Defensive coordinator - 2nd year and still no apparent clue how to build, train, and deploy a front 7 to take over games.
• PLEASE SOMEBODY HIRE HIM AS A HC NEXT YEAR!!

And watch - some team is going to hire him as their next HC because he gives a good interview and because he's the right age.

[jsdarkstar]

Yeah, let's fire Gannon because the Eagles lost one game. Great Idea. 

[Procus]

After hearing about the lying and cheating about Gannon's communications with the Cards prior to the Super Bowl, you have to wonder if the Eagles might have won the whole damn thing if they bit the bullet and canned Gannon's ass and replaced him with Fangio early on

[Wallyhorse]

8 hours ago, Procus said:

After hearing about the lying and cheating about Gannon's communications with the Cards prior to the Super Bowl, you have to wonder if the Eagles might have won the whole damn thing if they bit the bullet and canned Gannon's ass and replaced him with Fangio early on

And the Cardinals job may be turning into "be careful what you wish for" as they are a MESS right now. 

[Procus]