I don't care who said it but wishing injury on a player..... no bueno.

Then we wonder where the national media gets it takes from.

I know you boys love hating on Marsh..... but get over it..... O hoppe has been relegated to back up .... and has begun taking grounders at 3rd. He is hitting around .240..... average for a back up catcher. Marsh is a back up OF.... averaging around .240 ...... even swap.

The bigger issue with the team is management ....the wasting of Harper's prime and Wheelers prime by fooling themselves that they have an all star lineup that can compete.

Rf..... chases pitches in another zip code and below avg defense

Cf ... regardless of the platoon... they can't hit

Lf.... see Cf

3b....this kid might be an above avg player if he wasn't an emotional mess.

Ss..... I'm am a 56yr old cancer survivor and I can field better.... I can't hit though, my reading glasses would get in the way.

2b..... check a milk carton to see how to find the kid that we had last year.

1b.... sadly I feel he is becoming the Mike Trout of the east coast

C.....the only defensive whiz we have..... offensively.... he's done.

Pitchers.... 1 great starter 2 decent ones and a mess of messes

...... then there's the bullpen.

Thank God training camp has opened.

Re Suarez trade:

- The Phillies almost certainly are not giving up Painter for a rental.

- They are almost certainly putting Mick Abel in the trade.

- Aidan Miller is now hitting .217 and slugging .350 in AA. I really don't care if they throw him in and neither should you.

- The wild card is Crawford. Great batting average with zero power in AAA. I have concerns with how that bat will translate to MLB. The Phillies must as well, otherwise he'd have been called up by now. Even though I am not his biggest fan, I don't think throwing in a potential multi-year starter at CF is acceptable for a rental.

Abel and MIller probably gets the deal done. No Miller and I bet the Cubs or Mariners put together a better deal.

1 hour ago, Steve 17 said:

I don't care who said it but wishing injury on a player..... no bueno.

Then we wonder where the national media gets it takes from.

I know you boys love hating on Marsh..... but get over it..... O hoppe has been relegated to back up .... and has begun taking grounders at 3rd. He is hitting around .240..... average for a back up catcher. Marsh is a back up OF.... averaging around .240 ...... even swap.

The bigger issue with the team is management ....the wasting of Harper's prime and Wheelers prime by fooling themselves that they have an all star lineup that can compete.

Rf..... chases pitches in another zip code and below avg defense

Cf ... regardless of the platoon... they can't hit

Lf.... see Cf

3b....this kid might be an above avg player if he wasn't an emotional mess.

Ss..... I'm am a 56yr old cancer survivor and I can field better.... I can't hit though, my reading glasses would get in the way.

2b..... check a milk carton to see how to find the kid that we had last year.

1b.... sadly I feel he is becoming the Mike Trout of the east coast

C.....the only defensive whiz we have..... offensively.... he's done.

Pitchers.... 1 great starter 2 decent ones and a mess of messes

...... then there's the bullpen.

Thank God training camp has opened.

Trea Turner is a top 15 defender by almost every defensive metric

2 hours ago, Steve 17 said:

I don't care who said it but wishing injury on a player..... no bueno.

Then we wonder where the national media gets it takes from.

I know you boys love hating on Marsh..... but get over it..... O hoppe has been relegated to back up .... and has begun taking grounders at 3rd. He is hitting around .240..... average for a back up catcher. Marsh is a back up OF.... averaging around .240 ...... even swap.

The bigger issue with the team is management ....the wasting of Harper's prime and Wheelers prime by fooling themselves that they have an all star lineup that can compete.

Rf..... chases pitches in another zip code and below avg defense

Cf ... regardless of the platoon... they can't hit

Lf.... see Cf

3b....this kid might be an above avg player if he wasn't an emotional mess.

Ss..... I'm am a 56yr old cancer survivor and I can field better.... I can't hit though, my reading glasses would get in the way.

2b..... check a milk carton to see how to find the kid that we had last year.

1b.... sadly I feel he is becoming the Mike Trout of the east coast

C.....the only defensive whiz we have..... offensively.... he's done.

Pitchers.... 1 great starter 2 decent ones and a mess of messes

...... then there's the bullpen.

Thank God training camp has opened.

This is what I hate about people when they mention a O’hoppe trade. it was never about what he was ever going to be for the angels. The value of O’hoppe when they traded him was his peak for the Phillies organization. They were always going to deal Him as they had given realmuto an extension.

He was top 60 prospect in baseball. Which means you should be getting a proven everyday player when making that trade not a platoon player who’s forced to be an everyday player cause rest of the depth on the OF stinks. Go look at the last 5 years of trades where prospects ranked as highly as him when traded and what they got. Phillies value on return of trading away a top 75 (heck he was close to 50 in some rankings). So they got more than a platoon left fielder who was supposed to be ann everyday starting centerfielder. But he can’t do that. As a fielder this year his DRS (defensive runs saved) is -10 which is not good (Bohm ranks higher than him. Eugink Suarez who’s not a good 3b this year still ranks higher than him). Hes also Ranked around 24th in all centerfielders in baseball in DRS. On marsh’s Offense it is nearly identical to his numbers avg and OBP to what he did last year. With a dramatic drop in SLG and OPS which is where the game played now.

Marsh’s slashes are actually the worst of his tenure with the Phillies this year.

2022: .288/.319/.455/.773

2023: .277/.372/.458/.829

2024: .249/.328/.419/.747

2025: .250/.327/.348/.675

I’d add still has the same issue when he got to the Phillies… can’t hit LHP. That hasn’t changed.

This year:

LHP: .191/.283/.255/.538

(so you know this is rojas level bad vs RHP. I’d argue marsh is worse Va. LHP than Rojas Va RHP. and as bad as Kepler vs. LHP. Rojas vs. RHP— .220/.281/.268/.549 and Kepler vs. LHP: .196/.255/.314/.568)

Rhp: .266/.343/.373/.716

The issue was never about trading O’hoppe. They were always going to have to trade him because just gave Realmuto an extension. The issue is trading a top 75 prospect and getting a platoon player who’s went from savior at CF if we fix him to we are forced to play him vs. LHP cause we don’t have anyone better. And this isn’t Brandon marsh sucks. No this is Brandon marsh should be a LF and he should be in a platoon. The only reason he’s not is because Rojas and Wilson sucks. And Kepler is awful. And kemp isn’t an outfielder

Imo Fing kill Rubin amaro jr for what happened to the Phillies after gillick. Rightfully so by not dealing guys sooner when we saw it collapsing. But at least when he traded away his top 100 prospects (their peak with the organization) he got guys who were proven players like cliff, halladay, oswalt and hunter pence. Meanwhile Dave is trading top 100 and close to top 50 prospects for platoon OFs and we are taking that as a win.

1 hour ago, mikemack8 said:

Trea Turner is a top 15 defender by almost every defensive metric

Yup Anthony mentioned this on the ringer Philly special podcast. He gets killed but he’s been good this year when looking at the analytics. like Castellanos is the worst defensive player on the team. Marsh isn’t that far behind with his OAA and DRS this year. It’s cause he’s not a CF and Phillies have no other option meanwhile you know if they utilized a very valuable trade asset at the time of the marsh trade, they should’ve gotten a proven CF or just everyday OF. They didn’t. It’s why they have the issues they do in the OF. Cause when they cashed that asset in, long was suppose to be fix his issues against LHP and be able to play CF. He isn’t good enough at either.

IF they get Suarez, the outfield faces an interesting choice.

Marsh, for all his flaws, is clearly the second best hitter in their outfield. (yikes). So I suppose you want him out there. But Schwarber/Marsh/Castellanos is going to cost you runs in the playoffs. I guess Rojas will just be the CF sub for the last 2-3 innings of most games. I don't foresee a scenario where Crawford is going to be ready to take Marsh's job for the playoffs.

3 hours ago, Steve 17 said:

I don't care who said it but wishing injury on a player..... no bueno.

Then we wonder where the national media gets it takes from.

I know you boys love hating on Marsh..... but get over it..... O hoppe has been relegated to back up .... and has begun taking grounders at 3rd. He is hitting around .240..... average for a back up catcher. Marsh is a back up OF.... averaging around .240 ...... even swap.

The bigger issue with the team is management ....the wasting of Harper's prime and Wheelers prime by fooling themselves that they have an all star lineup that can compete.

Rf..... chases pitches in another zip code and below avg defense

Cf ... regardless of the platoon... they can't hit

Lf.... see Cf

3b....this kid might be an above avg player if he wasn't an emotional mess.

Ss..... I'm am a 56yr old cancer survivor and I can field better.... I can't hit though, my reading glasses would get in the way.

2b..... check a milk carton to see how to find the kid that we had last year.

1b.... sadly I feel he is becoming the Mike Trout of the east coast

C.....the only defensive whiz we have..... offensively.... he's done.

Pitchers.... 1 great starter 2 decent ones and a mess of messes

...... then there's the bullpen.

Thank God training camp has opened.

16 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

This is what I hate about people when they mention a O’hoppe trade. it was never about what he was ever going to be for the angels. The value of O’hoppe when they traded him was his peak for the Phillies organization. They were always going to deal Him as they had given realmuto an extension.

He was top 60 prospect in baseball. Which means you should be getting a proven everyday player when making that trade not a platoon player who’s forced to be an everyday player cause rest of the depth on the OF stinks. Go look at the last 5 years of trades where prospects ranked as highly as him when traded and what they got. Phillies value on return of trading away a top 75 (heck he was close to 50 in some rankings). So they got more than a platoon left fielder who was supposed to be ann everyday starting centerfielder. But he can’t do that. As in centerfield his DRS (defensive runs saved) is -10 which is awful. Hes also Ranked around 24th in all centerfielders in baseball in DRS. On marsh’s Offense it is nearly identical to his numbers avg and OBP to what he did last year. With a dramatic drop in SLG and OPS which is where the game played now.

Marsh’s slashes are actually the worst of his tenure with the Phillies this year.

2022: .288/.319/.455/.773

2023: .277/.372/.458/.829

2024: .249/.328/.419/.747

2025: .250/.327/.348/.675

I’d add still has the same issue when he got to the Phillies… can’t hit LHP. That hasn’t changed.

This year:

LHP: .191/.283/.255/.538

(so you know this is rojas vs RHP I’d argue worse than Rojas and as bad as Kepler vs. LHP. Rojas vs. RHP— .220/.281/.268/.549 and Kepler vs. LHP: .196/.255/.314/.568)

Rhp: .266/.343/.373/.716

The issue was never about trading O’hoppe. They were always going to have to trade him because just gave Realmuto an extension. The issue is trading a top 75 prospect and getting a platoon player who’s gotten worse each consecutive year he’s been here. And this isn’t Brandon marsh sucks. No this is Brandon marsh should be a leftfielder and he should be in a platoon. The only reason he’s not is because Rojas and Wilson sucks. And Kepler is awful. And kemp isn’t an outfielder

People Fing kill Rubin amaro jr for what happened to the Phillies after gillick. Rightfully so by not dealing guys sooner when we saw it collapsing. But at least when he traded away his top 100 prospects (their peak with the organization) he got guys who were proven players like cliff, halladay, oswalt and hunter pence. Meanwhile Dave is trading top 100 and close to top 50 prospects for platoon OFs and we are taking that as a win.

O'hoppe got hot for a while. His stat line made many people think he was better than he was for a bit. I've never really watched him play, so I can't comment one way or the other. He seems fine. It's not a big loss. Marsh was no big gain. O'hoppe would be better now and Marsh was better for us in the WS run.

Obviously, offensive expectations are lower for catcher (albeit defensively deficient) than they are for a defensively deficient center fielder. O'Hoppe is a perfectly good hitter (and depending on how he settles in, maybe more) for a defensively premium position. But he's not a good enough hitter to move off catcher to 1B...his value plummets. When he was a prospect, I thought he was supposed to project as a very good defensive catcher...not sure what happened there.

It was a meh trade. Just more evidence that the prospects of the Phillies farm system...even "the one that got away"...are not good.

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

IF they get Suarez, the outfield faces an interesting choice.

Marsh, for all his flaws, is clearly the second best hitter in their outfield. (yikes). So I suppose you want him out there. But Schwarber/Marsh/Castellanos is going to cost you runs in the playoffs. I guess Rojas will just be the CF sub for the last 2-3 innings of most games. I don't foresee a scenario where Crawford is going to be ready to take Marsh's job for the playoffs.

Tbh they really shouldn’t put schwarber back in the OF. He is awful as a fielder and they even said it wore him down at the plate. It really should be Harper but the Phillies refuse to do it. He makes the most Logical sense as he’s played OF at a competent level before. And he is also consistently getting hurt where it’s 1b or OF. So the whole we are preventing him from injury playing first hasn’t held water.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Tbh they really shouldn’t put schwarber back in the OF. He is awful as a fielder and they even said it wore him down at the plate. It really should be Harper but the Phillies refuse to do it. He makes the most Logical sense as he’s played OF at a competent level before. And he is also consistently getting hurt where it’s 1b or OF. So the whole we are preventing him from injury playing first hasn’t held water.

Agreed completely. Harper fits far better and I have to think he’d be rangier than all corner OF options.

We could go from defensive subs for Castellanos, one of the statistically worst OFs in MLB, to him being the defensive fixture.

All things to consider when measuring the value of the trade. Gains runs at the plate but will cost them in the field.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

O'hoppe got hot for a while. His stat line made many people think he was better than he was for a bit. I've never really watched him play, so I can't comment one way or the other. He seems fine. It's not a big loss. Marsh was no big gain. O'hoppe would be better now and Marsh was better for us in the WS run.

Obviously, offensive expectations are lower for catcher (albeit defensively deficient) than they are for a defensively deficient center fielder. O'Hoppe is a perfectly good hitter (and depending on how he settles in, maybe more) for a defensively premium position. But he's not a good enough hitter to move off catcher to 1B...his value plummets. When he was a prospect, I thought he was supposed to project as a very good defensive catcher...not sure what happened there.

It was a meh trade. Just more evidence that the prospects of the Phillies farm system...even "the one that got away"...are not good.

Frankly the angels have done a lousy job with prospects like the Phillies besides trout. It’s why it took Adell finally til now to become what people thought he was going to be.

The issue with O’hoppe was as soon as they signed relamuto he was always just a trade asset for fixing your team. That was a very, very very valuable trade asset as most of baseball at that time saw him as a top 60 prospect and an a good hitting catching prospect. That’s really rare in the game of baseball to have that type of catcher prospect and he was on the market. When you have a valuable trade asset like that you have to be able to cash in on it more than Brandon marsh being a platoon OF.

Again amaro gets killed and even then the Phillies prospects were overrated but he managed to cash those top 100 prospects into guys that could get them over the hump and were worth the value of the trade chips he was given up. Marsh is definitively not

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Agreed completely. Harper fits far better and I have to think he’d be rangier than all corner OF options.

We could go from defensive subs for Castellanos, one of the statistically worst OFs in MLB, to him being the defensive fixture.

All things to consider when measuring the value of the trade. Gains runs at the plate but will cost them in the field.

Got to also remember if you get Suarez he’s an awful 3B this year. Bohm is actually significantly better than Suarez in every metric defensively. Suarez over 844.2 innings at third base this year: -4 DRS/ -6 OAA/ -5 FRV as per fangraph. Bohm is -2 DRS/1 OAA/1 FRV. So you are downgrading defensively at 3b and LF with schwarber. Frankly you’d be better off having Suarez play 1b and moving Harper to LF and keeping Bohm at 3b. I know what the report says, but I don’t think it’s out of the blue the Diamondbacks all of a sudden played Suarez at first base this week for a couple innings. I think that’s because somebody who trades for him is going to want to move or play some first base with how awful he is defensively at 3b.

God help us if schwarber is playing LF everyday

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

God help us if schwarber is playing LF everyday

He’s going to be worse now than before too…

Just now, eagle45 said:

He’s going to be worse now than before too…

Yup. Add on part of the reason to make him the DH once Harper was healthy (besides him being a butcher defensively in LF) was they claimed it was wearing him down and effecting him at the plate. So essentially you are going to do that to him again while bryce as great as he is played OF for a decade and is still getting banged up at 1b. So 1b isn’t preventing his injuries

Wheeler may lose the cy young from this game with skenes mowing down the dbacks and continuing to just be dominant every start.

This feels like a game where we don’t score after getting 2 early runs then give up the lead and lose something like 6 or 7 to 2.

What a Fing throw by Rojas and tag by jt

Wheeler sucks now

Just now, RoadToHell said:

Wheeler sucks now

Tbh he has told the organization he like pitching on a normal 5 day schedule. Since the all star break it’s been 9 days and 6 days between starts. they really should’ve flipped Ranger and him this weekend with the off day Thursday. Ranger could use the extra rest whereas wheeler doesn’t like it

28 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

This feels like a game where we don’t score after getting 2 early runs then give up the lead and lose something like 6 or 7 to 2.

Come on reverse jinx….. come on!!

Rojas at bat killed that inning. Should’ve gotten him to get a bunt down to advance the runners with Turner and schwarber coming up. Him striking out on 3 pitches looking can’t happen.

Eugenio Suarez trying to tank his value so we don’t have to give up as much lol … 1 for last 17