December 8, 20223 yr Just now, Diehardfan said: Still a US Marine I don't care. Not my place to judge him. They wanted her back? Great. Get him, too. no he's not, hence the dishonorable discharge. also, he was tried and convicted, so it is absolutely your place to judge him. that said he is still an american citizen and F russia.
December 8, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: he was an american citizen, nothing more. The right is very soft on criminals.
December 8, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: he was not a marine. he was dishonorably discharged for larceny and other offenses. I didn't know that. Damn, the right would've gone nuts if we would've gotten him back. Remember Bo Bergdal? The right collectively REE'd over that one. And yet they were surprisingly good with releasing thousands of Taliban soldiers and getting absolutely nothing in return. Weird. It's almost like they're not being sincere when they voice their concerns.
December 8, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Mike030270 said: Why did this become a right vs left thing? Are you lost?
December 8, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Mike030270 said: Why did this become a right vs left thing? you can't tell from the title itself ?
December 8, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: Why did this become a right vs left thing? That's why
December 8, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: no he's not, hence the dishonorable discharge. also, he was tried and convicted, so it is absolutely your place to judge him. that said he is still an american citizen and F russia. We will disagree on if he is or isn't. Still not my place to judge him or her for breaking Russian law or her views on the US. I want all US citizens brought home if possible from a craphole like Russia. Like you said they are American citizens. Not a right vs left thing or dem vs rep. He is left there and I'll wake up tomorrow and go on with my life. Still think it's BS.
December 8, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: Why did this become a right vs left thing? because bds.
December 8, 20223 yr Just now, Diehardfan said: We will disagree on if he is or isn't. Still not my place to judge him or her for breaking Russian law or her views on the US. I want all US citizens brought home if possible from a Dallas like Russia. Like you said they are American citizens. It's entirely possible that Russia wasn't going to give him up. I suspect that's why this took so long.
December 8, 20223 yr Just now, Diehardfan said: We will disagree on if he is or isn't. Still not my place to judge him or her for breaking Russian law or her views on the US. I want all US citizens brought home if possible from a Dallas like Russia. Like you said they are American citizens. and you know, its ok to disagree. to be clear though, i'm not judging him on what he is accused of doing in russia, just on what he did to get discharged from the MC. btw - @VaBeach_Eaglei love the auto-edit for Dallas.
December 8, 20223 yr 19 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: no he's not, hence the dishonorable discharge. also, he was tried and convicted, so it is absolutely your place to judge him. that said he is still an american citizen and F russia. Exactly. I didn’t write the following but agree 100%. "A Marine is an honorable individual providing a vital service to their nation. Anyone who was dishonorably discharged has proven that they are not an honorable individual therefore they are not a Marine.” However, he is an American citizen and we should try to bring him home.
December 8, 20223 yr Glad for Griner and her family that she gets to come home. But I think this was a bad swap. Bout was a huge illegal arms dealer. I think that's a big chip to give up to only get back 1 person arrested on a drug possession charge.
December 8, 20223 yr 10 minutes ago, Gannan said: It's entirely possible that Russia wasn't going to give him up. I suspect that's why this took so long. Whelan's own brother agrees with you. Quote "I think it's become clear that the U.S. doesn't have any concessions that the Russian government wants for Paul, so I'm not really sure what the future holds,” David Whelan said. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/08/paul-whelan-russia-brittney-griner-prisoner-swap I'm the son of a now 75 year old Marine and appreciate the reaction to the idea that getting him home should be a priority, assuming it's sincere, but everyone raging about this is doing so with absolutely no knowledge of the situation.
December 8, 20223 yr 18 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: btw - @VaBeach_Eaglei love the auto-edit for Dallas. Not my doing, maybe @Moderator12 ?
December 8, 20223 yr Awesome! She's back in plenty of time to do the Christmas "I hate America" interview circuit. 🤘
December 8, 20223 yr 32 minutes ago, Gannan said: It's entirely possible that Russia wasn't going to give him up. I suspect that's why this took so long. I'd say that was pretty accurate. From some of the news links that arms guy seemed like a pretty bad guy who was a major player in arms deals around the world. Getting him back for a small drug charge seems pretty lopsided, but I also just watched Bridge of Spies a week ago. That guy was amazing. Especially, what they said at the end about getting a few thousand extra people released from Cuba.
December 8, 20223 yr 18 minutes ago, Shepard Wong said: Whelan's own brother agrees with you. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/08/paul-whelan-russia-brittney-griner-prisoner-swap I'm the son of a now 75 year old Marine and appreciate the reaction to the idea that getting him home should be a priority, assuming it's sincere, but everyone raging about this is doing so with absolutely no knowledge of the situation. No, but even if he did some bad things he put on the uniform and served, which is more than many of us ever do. I'm the son and grandson of people who served during wars as well. Serving doesn't entitle someone to special treatment, but I feel as a country we owe them at least the courtesy of bringing them home...even if they didn't finish their service honorably.
December 8, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, mikemack8 said: No no don’t make me agree with him NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
December 8, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: No, but even if he did some bad things he put on the uniform and served, which is more than many of us ever do. I'm the son and grandson of people who served during wars as well. Serving doesn't entitle someone to special treatment, but I feel as a country we owe them at least the courtesy of bringing them home...even if they didn't finish their service honorably. An arguement could be made that committing crimes in Iraq while at the same time serving in our military actually makes him worse lol.
December 8, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: No, but even if he did some bad things he put on the uniform and served, which is more than many of us ever do. I'm the son and grandson of people who served during wars as well. Serving doesn't entitle someone to special treatment, but I feel as a country we owe them at least the courtesy of bringing them home...even if they didn't finish their service honorably. Agreed. I grew up with a lot of my Dad's Marine buddies around and even as a kid I knew some of them weren't angels (nor was my Dad but I digress) but they all served their country, for them at a time of war when many people were doing everything they could not to. Even if someone served during a time of relative peace, it is a huge sacrifice to turn over control of your daily life in service to your country. That will always mean something to me regardless of other circumstances.
December 8, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, Tnt4philly said: Because she was convicted by a jury of her peers? Is that Russia’s policy? Do they use a jury? Because you’re quoting out policy and the at doesn’t apply. She’s a dipsheet who broke another country’s law. She should face those consequences. Giving up an actual threat for her is just dumb.
December 8, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Whelan was a verified spy; there was virtually no way they were getting him back for a two-bit WNBA player. The U.S. for obvious reasons don't want to admit it, and Russia doesn't want to come right out and say it, because they don't want their spies arrested for espionage. We wouldn’t be giving up Whelan for a wnba player or the other way around. US received: Two Bit WNBA player Russia Received: Merchant of Death Russia Keeps: Whelan
December 8, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: Is that Russia’s policy? Do they use a jury? Because you’re quoting out policy and the at doesn’t apply. She’s a dipsheet who broke another country’s law. She should face those consequences. Giving up an actual threat for her is just dumb. The problem is the administration needed to avoid an Otto Warmbier situation. That consequences of that for someone like Griner would be far, far worse politically than handing over Viktor Bout. That being said, giving up Bout for Griner alone was clearly a bad trade. Gotta imagine there was a better deal to be had there, but I kinda understand why they wanted to take the worst case option off the table even if it meant doing a lopsided trade.
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