Jonathan Taylor RB Colts

[eaglesfan0075]

Have a hard time thinking the Eagles are gonna be seriously in the mix for Taylor despite the Sirianni Colts connection.

Both our recent Super Bowl teams involved RBBCs (Ajayi/Blount/Clement, Sanders/Gainwell/Scott) without a single RB commanding a large $10 million plus salary. 

We have to save upcoming cap $$ for Devonta Smith's eventual extension as well (among our other young players) and he's a more integral piece of the offense.

[b_west3]

It still baffles me how runningbacks somehow have any trade value when none of them can get second contracts from their original team.  Hell no to this and I wouldn't offer ANYTHING other than a 4th round pick.  

[judunno]

18 hours ago, b_west3 said:

It still baffles me how runningbacks somehow have any trade value when none of them can get second contracts from their original team.  Hell no to this and I wouldn't offer ANYTHING other than a 4th round pick.  

Agreed. Its a shame what's happened to the RB position but that's the reality of the market these days. They get banged up too often and the shelf life isn't typically that long which is why Indy isn't trying to foot the bill now. The times where you land a high performing elite back that can play for 10+ yrs and avg 1200+ yards a year without significant injury time off is a rarity and hasn't been seen in a long time. Would be a huge mistake IMO if the Eagles gave up draft capital AND a significant extension to Taylor's liking. RBC is the way and we have a stellar RB room right now. The reason why Howie can work so much magic with the cap is because he prioritizes certain positions with his allocations. RB isn't one of them. I'd be shocked if he made this move.

[NJWolverEagle11]

4 hours ago, judunno said:

Agreed. Its a shame what's happened to the RB position but that's the reality of the market these days. They get banged up too often and the shelf life isn't typically that long which is why Indy isn't trying to foot the bill now. The times where you land a high performing elite back that can play for 10+ yrs and avg 1200+ yards a year without significant injury time off is a rarity and hasn't been seen in a long time. Would be a huge mistake IMO if the Eagles gave up draft capital AND a significant extension to Taylor's liking. RBC is the way and we have a stellar RB room right now. The reason why Howie can work so much magic with the cap is because he prioritizes certain positions with his allocations. RB isn't one of them. I'd be shocked if he made this move.

I believe the expansion of the passing game directly and indirectly led to the phasing out of RBs.

 

Besides the obvious the uptick in passing has seen more dynamic pass catching TEs(greater number, early 2000s was Tony Gonzalez Antonio Gates era then came Gronk/Jimmy Graham. Now half the league has a solid receiving TE) and the slot WR pretty much become a starting position at expense of the FB being they were never known as pass catchers (Leonard Weaver and Marcel Reece were very rare).

No FB means one less lead blocker for RBs and also more responsibility in pass protection which means these guys taking considerably more hits than they already were. All that means you should only shop RBs in the produce section.

I honestly believe Adrian Peterson is the last great RB we'll see. A bell cow who was the top back in the league for like a decade.

 

Jus my 2 cents for those who gaf lol

[judunno]

49 minutes ago, NJWolverEagle11 said:

I believe the expansion of the passing game directly and indirectly led to the phasing out of RBs.

 

Besides the obvious the uptick in passing has seen more dynamic pass catching TEs(greater number, early 2000s was Tony Gonzalez Antonio Gates era then came Gronk/Jimmy Graham. Now half the league has a solid receiving TE) and the slot WR pretty much become a starting position at expense of the FB being they were never known as pass catchers (Leonard Weaver and Marcel Reece were very rare).

No FB means one less lead blocker for RBs and also more responsibility in pass protection which means these guys taking considerably more hits than they already were. All that means you should only shop RBs in the produce section.

I honestly believe Adrian Peterson is the last great RB we'll see. A bell cow who was the top back in the league for like a decade.

 

Jus my 2 cents for those who gaf lol

Indeed. The emphasis on passing definitely changed things. All depends on injuries. You're right they're taking a considerable amount of punishment these days without the FBs and such. If a guy can be a freak of nature like Peterson and not get hurt and play at a high level well you have the next Peterson but it's so much a rarity it's not worth paying for prematurely in these GMs eyes.

[NOTW]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:16 PM, NJWolverEagle11 said:

Intentional?

 

On 8/23/2023 at 8:10 AM, eggs said:

Good point - the Taylor Swift backfield. Love it. 

It all makes sense now.

 

[MidMoFo]

On 8/24/2023 at 9:43 AM, judunno said:

Agreed. Its a shame what's happened to the RB position but that's the reality of the market these days. They get banged up too often and the shelf life isn't typically that long which is why Indy isn't trying to foot the bill now. The times where you land a high performing elite back that can play for 10+ yrs and avg 1200+ yards a year without significant injury time off is a rarity and hasn't been seen in a long time. Would be a huge mistake IMO if the Eagles gave up draft capital AND a significant extension to Taylor's liking. RBC is the way and we have a stellar RB room right now. The reason why Howie can work so much magic with the cap is because he prioritizes certain positions with his allocations. RB isn't one of them. I'd be shocked if he made this move.

The RB market is what it is until it changes…

I trust Howie. He’s always looking, which is why there are reports of the Eagles interested. If he gets a deal he likes and makes a move I’ll love it. If he doesn’t, I’ll trust the price was too steep.

The RB position is still an important position, and there are still elite talents who can not be replaced by a committee. The career length of a RB is short though, and long term, mega contracts for them will probably never come back. A short contract for a stud RB still in their prime, is worth a championship run. The pendulum will swing back when another team with a top tier RB wins the Super Bowl again.

[EazyEaglez]

So I seriously doubt this will happen, and I don’t think the Colts will get anything close to what they’re asking for (neither will Taylor by the way), but it do think it’s interesting that the Colts media is reporting that only two teams made offers and the only team named was the Dolphins. The Colts are very aware the Eagles do not like their names in any transactions and if you hear about the Eagles involvement then the deal is likely over. It could all be the Colts trying to drum up some business to get a better deal for Taylor, but I don’t see why they would do that considering I don’t believe they have any interest in trading him at all. 

[judunno]

11 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

The RB market is what it is until it changes…

I trust Howie. He’s always looking, which is why there are reports of the Eagles interested. If he gets a deal he likes and makes a move I’ll love it. If he doesn’t, I’ll trust the price was too steep.

The RB position is still an important position, and there are still elite talents who can not be replaced by a committee. The career length of a RB is short though, and long term, mega contracts for them will probably never come back. A short contract for a stud RB still in their prime, is worth a championship run. The pendulum will swing back when another team with a top tier RB wins the Super Bowl again.

Swing back to what exactly? Even in history there aren't many examples of elite RBs that have staying power winning Superbowls especially with their originally drafted teams. The economics of it doesn't make much sense anymore unfortunately.

 

Emmit, T Davis, Fulk, maybe Beastmode and Ricky Williams. Not many great ones in recent history.

[Godfather]

I think Denver lands him

[Infam]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:57 PM, eaglesfan0075 said:

Have a hard time thinking the Eagles are gonna be seriously in the mix for Taylor despite the Sirianni Colts connection.

Taylor did grow up close too I think.

On 8/23/2023 at 7:57 PM, eaglesfan0075 said:

Both our recent Super Bowl teams involved RBBCs (Ajayi/Blount/Clement, Sanders/Gainwell/Scott) without a single RB commanding a large $10 million plus salary. 

And then all of a sudden Sanders was the guy. RBBC was out of necessity not philosophy.

On 8/23/2023 at 7:57 PM, eaglesfan0075 said:

We have to save upcoming cap $$ for Devonta Smith's eventual extension as well (among our other young players) and he's a more integral piece of the offense.

I used to think like that. But it’s time to think about the now, not future seasons down the line.

That said what matters in cases like this is the guarantees. If they are low enough we are just fine and can trade him if necessary to keep a more important player.

[Infam]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:06 PM, judunno said:

Swing back to what exactly? Even in history there aren't many examples of elite RBs that have staying power winning Superbowls especially with their originally drafted teams. The economics of it doesn't make much sense anymore unfortunately.

Emmit, T Davis, Fulk, maybe Beastmode and Ricky Williams. Not many great ones in recent history.

Context is needed. It doesn’t work because you have to be cheap elsewhere to compensate for a very expensive RB. Obviously a star RB added to a complete roster is a good thing.

[judunno]

7 hours ago, Infam said:

Context is needed. It doesn’t work because you have to be cheap elsewhere to compensate for a very expensive RB. Obviously a star RB added to a complete roster is a good thing.

The context is that it potentially impacts the future at other much more important positions if you have to give up draft capital and the major compensation needed to get said RB. I would argue that the production wouldn't be much different from what we have with the current group provided  that 'they stay healthy'. Would he make the group better? Of course but how much better really? There's no guarantee just because you get an elite RB that he will put you over the top because just like last year Taylor could get nicked up again this year. The caveat would still be 'if they stay healthy'. This isn't like the situation when we brought in Ajayi  for a 4th rounder to upgrade the RB room. Taylor is going to want much more money and it will likely cost much more in assets to even land him. That's a lot of unnecessary risk in this era IMO but I guess we will see what Howie does or doesn't do.

[Infam]

38 minutes ago, judunno said:

The context is that it potentially impacts the future at other much more important positions if you have to give up draft capital and the major compensation needed to get said RB.

Agreed, but I am suggesting there is a time when you should do everything you can to win the SB.

38 minutes ago, judunno said:

I would argue that the production wouldn't be much different from what we have with the current group provided  that 'they stay healthy'. Would he make the group better? Of course but how much better really?

I love the Swift/ Penny potential but Taylor would upgrade this offense big time.

38 minutes ago, judunno said:

There's no guarantee just because you get an elite RB that he will put you over the top because just like last year Taylor could get nicked up again this year.

With the same logic you could argue against anyone to trade for ever, even AJ Brown.

38 minutes ago, judunno said:

The caveat would still be 'if they stay healthy'. This isn't like the situation when we brought in Ajayi  for a 4th rounder to upgrade the RB room. Taylor is going to want much more money and it will likely cost much more in assets to even land him. That's a lot of unnecessary risk in this era IMO but I guess we will see what Howie does or doesn't do.

It’s not. When we traded for Ajayi nobody (!) expected we would go anywhere that year. 
I respectfully disagree with the ‘unnecessary’. It may well be very much necessary to get it done. We don’t know. What we do know is that it would make us better this year and will probably hurt us long term.

We’ll most likely not go for it, but there are plenty of reasons why we should think about it.

[judunno]

1 hour ago, Infam said:

Agreed, but I am suggesting there is a time when you should do everything you can to win the SB.

I love the Swift/ Penny potential but Taylor would upgrade this offense big time.

With the same logic you could argue against anyone to trade for ever, even AJ Brown.

It’s not. When we traded for Ajayi nobody (!) expected we would go anywhere that year. 
I respectfully disagree with the ‘unnecessary’. It may well be very much necessary to get it done. We don’t know. What we do know is that it would make us better this year and will probably hurt us long term.

We’ll most likely not go for it, but there are plenty of reasons why we should think about it.

I'm doubtful on the big time upgrade. It's an upgrade sure but it's just taking the production from multiple players and rerouting it to one guy provided that he gets a bulk of the carries. And if he doesn't get the bulk of the carries as a bell cow what's the point of giving up so much in assets for him. Further, I'm just talking the RB position primarily. The AJ Brown situation is not comparable because of position. WR > RB in this era IMO. I don't mind resources going there and other high valued positions as we spent years missing on draft picks to get an elite WR.

I think a healthy combination of Swift/Penny and the rest of the backs give you similar production to what you would get from Taylor with less wear and tear to each player individually throughout the season. The assumption is that they all stay healthy in my take including Taylor since he had a nasty injury last year. I think there's more reasons not to do it then for doing it. Salary cap being one of the main reasons. The other major reason is keeping your backs fresh all year and spreading the risk for a playoff run seems to be the best practice for success in the post season. If you haven't noticed I prefer the running back by committee approach

[Infam]

8 minutes ago, judunno said:

I'm doubtful on the big time upgrade. It's an upgrade sure but it's just taking the production from multiple players and rerouting it to one guy provided that he gets a bulk of the carries. And if he doesn't get the bulk of the carries as a bell cow what's the point of giving up so much in assets for him.

No problem, agree to disagree. But if you are right getting our guys at that price is just another masterclass of Roseman.

8 minutes ago, judunno said:

Further, I'm just talking the RB position primarily. The AJ Brown situation is not comparable because of position. WR > RB in this era IMO. I don't mind resources going there and other high valued positions as we spent years missing on draft picks to get an elite WR.

Just meant the ‘he could get hurt’ argument doesn’t do much for me.

8 minutes ago, judunno said:

I think there's more reasons not to do it then for doing it. Salary cap being one of the main reasons. The other major reason is keeping your backs fresh all year and spreading the risk for a playoff run seems to be the best practice for success in the post season. If you haven't noticed I prefer the running back by committee approach

I don’t care about the cap one bit. We cheat that system every year.

And we should still rotate in Swift and Penny. Just when it really needs to work an added star will help. 

I think RBBC is just another way of saying: we haven’t found our guy yet.

It’s just that I am very high on our teams chances and don’t care as much aboit future cap and picks. Still wouldn’t give a first for him, that would be way too extreme. But if we would find a good deal I am all for it.

[judunno]

12 minutes ago, Infam said:

No problem, agree to disagree. But if you are right getting our guys at that price is just another masterclass of Roseman.

Just meant the ‘he could get hurt’ argument doesn’t do much for me.

I don’t care about the cap one bit. We cheat that system every year.

And we should still rotate in Swift and Penny. Just when it really needs to work an added star will help. 

I think RBBC is just another way of saying: we haven’t found our guy yet.

It’s just that I am very high on our teams chances and don’t care as much aboit future cap and picks. Still wouldn’t give a first for him, that would be way too extreme. But if we would find a good deal I am all for it.

RB is my favorite position in football. I love seeing good RB play. But RBBC is the way of the league now. We won a Superbowl with it. In fact a majority of the Super Bowl winners in the last few decades won with RBBC. There's a reason why people like Barkley and Jacobs are pissed about their contract situations. RBs are now part of the Expendables.
We cheat the system every year because we don't over spend on certain positions with the cap allocation... RB and Off-ball LB specifically. You could argue Safety as well. Once Howie stops doing that it'll be harder for him to work his magic.

[Godfather]

Didn't see the Packers being a surprise team

[eaglesfan0075]

2 hours ago, Godfather said:

Didn't see the Packers being a surprise team

Feels like same as Eagles doing due diligence under Howie. The Packers have a solid thing going with Aaron Jones and A.J. Dillon, although the latter is on an expiring contracts and there is the Wisconsin connection.

I think if Taylor gets moved it's gonna be to the Dolphins. The Colts won't get a 1st round pick or 1st round value, but could settle for something like Raheem Mostert and a 2nd round pick?

[judunno]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:47 PM, eaglesfan0075 said:

Feels like same as Eagles doing due diligence under Howie. The Packers have a solid thing going with Aaron Jones and A.J. Dillon, although the latter is on an expiring contracts and there is the Wisconsin connection.

I think if Taylor gets moved it's gonna be to the Dolphins. The Colts won't get a 1st round pick or 1st round value, but could settle for something like Raheem Mostert and a 2nd round pick?

Wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens took a swing now that they lost their RB1 for the season.

[Traveler Vic]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:43 AM, judunno said:

Agreed. Its a shame what's happened to the RB position but that's the reality of the market these days. They get banged up too often and the shelf life isn't typically that long which is why Indy isn't trying to foot the bill now. The times where you land a high performing elite back that can play for 10+ yrs and avg 1200+ yards a year without significant injury time off is a rarity and hasn't been seen in a long time. Would be a huge mistake IMO if the Eagles gave up draft capital AND a significant extension to Taylor's liking. RBC is the way and we have a stellar RB room right now. The reason why Howie can work so much magic with the cap is because he prioritizes certain positions with his allocations. RB isn't one of them. I'd be shocked if he made this move.

What use is the #1 offensive line? And a great RBs behind it? If the coaches do not call the running plays???

[judunno]

3 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

What use is the #1 offensive line? And a great RBs behind it? If the coaches do not call the running plays???

I don't know maybe protecting the quarter of a billion dollar QB maybe?

[xxeaglesfanxx]

The longer the holdout goes the more likely the Colts will take a lower pick. It’ll be interesting to see when/if they are able to get rid of him.

[Traveler Vic]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:35 AM, judunno said:

I don't know maybe protecting the quarter of a billion dollar QB maybe?

I was talking about the running game. And coaches calling so many QB designed runs is not in anyones interest. Want to see more traditional running back runs called in the game. Or if not runs then at least 5 yard passes to Swift, to move the chains. 

[judunno]

15 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

I was talking about the running game. And coaches calling so many QB designed runs is not in anyones interest. Want to see more traditional running back runs called in the game. Or if not runs then at least 5 yard passes to Swift, to move the chains. 

Your wish was granted... only took like 5 quarters :)