December 21, 20231 yr 11 minutes ago, vikas83 said: There's also this. So awesome we've got a generation of morons that won't read books and get their info from AOL ^What parents in the 90's probably said. Quote There's also this. So awesome we've got a generation of morons that won't read books and get their info from Television And in the 60's Quote There's also this. So awesome we've got a generation of morons that won't read books and get their info from Radio The 30's etc https://xkcd.com/1227/
December 21, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, vikas83 said: This entire generation (really 2 generations because it's millennials too) has been taught to simply divide the world into oppressors and the oppressed, and that anything done by the oppressed is justified and anything done by oppressors is to further a system of white supremacy. To them the Palestinians are the oppressed, which makes the Israelis evil and all actions by Hamas are justified. Basically, they are taught all the ills in the world can be traced back to western (i.e., White) culture. And that's how you end up with idiots supporting a group of people that basically haven't progressed beyond the 7th century -- and you get great comedy like "Queers for Palestine." It’s not millennials in large swaths. In my experience it’s limited to silver spoon millennials. Us middle class millennials are pretty staunchly centrist.
December 21, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Bill said: It’s not millennials in large swaths. In my experience it’s limited to silver spoon millennials. Us middle class millennials are pretty staunchly centrist. my nephew would be the exception to that rule, because he was anything but silver spoon. he just digests a steady stream of BS from the internet and believes he's the smartest guy in the room.
December 21, 20231 yr Or could it just be that young kids have always seemed uninformed and misguided on such topics because they've just barely begun to experience life, regardless of what generation they grew up in. I was a F'ing moron when I was 20 (I mean, I still pretty much am) but it's almost like a couple decades is a lot of time to learn and mature. Crazy thought, I know.
December 21, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, paco said: @Alpha_TATEr and Munson sitting in a tree F-E-L-T-C-H-I-N-G
December 21, 20231 yr 19 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: ^What parents in the 90's probably said. And in the 60's The 30's etc https://xkcd.com/1227/ With all due respect, those are ridiculous comparisons. Kids in the 90s had dial up access to AOL message boards and needed a computer to access it, and most didn't find crazy people on message boards talking about conspiracy theories. TV in the 60s and radio in the 30s didn't allow just anyone to broadcast BS - you needed a license and an ability to broadcast. It limited the ability to disseminate information to those who would (hopefully) be responsible with it. The difference with social media is that it has elevated every moron into a source of information. So MAGA idiots can rant about the return of JFK while liberal morons scream that Israel murdered their own citizens. And apps like Tik Tok elevate the most ridiculous crap and amplify it because it gets the most engagement. Add on that kids now have 24/7 access to this (seen another way they are bombarded 24/7), and have been told by horrible parents that their opinions are valid, and here we are... Social media is a unique challenge unlike any other in history.
December 21, 20231 yr Author 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: With all due respect, those are ridiculous comparisons. Kids in the 90s had dial up access to AOL message boards and needed a computer to access it, and most didn't find crazy people on message boards talking about conspiracy theories. TV in the 60s and radio in the 30s didn't allow just anyone to broadcast BS - you needed a license and an ability to broadcast. It limited the ability to disseminate information to those who would (hopefully) be responsible with it. The difference with social media is that it has elevated every moron into a source of information. So MAGA idiots can rant about the return of JFK while liberal morons scream that Israel murdered their own citizens. And apps like Tik Tok elevate the most ridiculous crap and amplify it because it gets the most engagement. Add on that kids now have 24/7 access to this (seen another way they are bombarded 24/7), and have been told by horrible parents that their opinions are valid, and here we are... Social media is a unique challenge unlike any other in history. Exactly. The comparisons are moronic.
December 21, 20231 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: With all due respect, those are ridiculous comparisons. Kids in the 90s had dial up access to AOL message boards and needed a computer to access it, and most didn't find crazy people on message boards talking about conspiracy theories. Ok, shift to a decade later if you prefer, but the same premise holds. Quote TV in the 60s and radio in the 30s didn't allow just anyone to broadcast BS - you needed a license and an ability to broadcast. It limited the ability to disseminate information to those who would (hopefully) be responsible with it. Somehow that didn't stop the parents of those generations from claiming it would rot our brains. Quote The difference with social media is that it has elevated every moron into a source of information. So MAGA idiots can rant about the return of JFK while liberal morons scream that Israel murdered their own citizens. And apps like Tik Tok elevate the most ridiculous crap and amplify it because it gets the most engagement. Add on that kids now have 24/7 access to this (seen another way they are bombarded 24/7), and have been told by horrible parents that their opinions are valid, and here we are... Social media is a unique challenge unlike any other in history. A unique challenge, sure, but my point is that there have always been young, dumb kids, it's not something unique to any particular generation. Of course, the technology has become more efficient at generating captive audiences but painting entire generations with such broad brushstrokes is just as lazy now as it was when your parents did it, or their parents, and so on.
December 21, 20231 yr Every single generation in history has complained about the work ethic, morals, intellect, and productive prospects of the succeeding generation. From an article in Time magazine, take a wild guess when it published... Quote They have trouble making decisions. They would rather hike in the Himalayas than climb a corporate ladder. They have few heroes, no anthems, no style to call their own. They crave entertainment, but their attention span is as short as one zap of a TV dial. They hate yuppies, hippies and druggies. They postpone marriage because they dread divorce. They sneer at Range Rovers, Rolexes and red suspenders. What they hold dear are family life, local activism, national parks, penny loafers and mountain bikes. They possess only a hazy sense of their own identity but a monumental preoccupation with all the problems the preceding generation will leave for them to fix. ... Twentysomething adults feel the opposing tugs of making money and doing good works, but they refuse to get caught up in the passion of either one. They reject 70-hour workweeks as yuppie lunacy, just as they shirk from starting another social revolution. Today's young adults want to stay in their own backyard and do their work in modest ways. "We're not trying to change things. We're trying to fix things," says Anne McCord, 21, of Portland, Ore. "We are the generation that is going to renovate America. We are going to be its carpenters and janitors." This is a back-to-basics bunch that wishes life could be simpler. "We expect less, we want less, but we want less to be better," says Devin Schaumburg, 20, of Knoxville. "If we're just trying to pick up the pieces, put it all back together, is there a label for that?" That's a laudable notion, but don't hold your breath till they find their answer. "They are finally out there, saying 'Pay attention to us,' but I've never heard them think of a single thing that defines them," says Martha Farnsworth Riche, national editor of American Demographics magazine. What worries parents, teachers and employers is that the latest crop of adults wants to postpone growing up. At a time when they should be graduating, entering the work force and starting families of their own, the twentysomething crowd is balking at those rites of passage. A prime reason is their recognition that the American Dream is much tougher to achieve after years of housing-price inflation and stagnant wages. Householders under the age of 25 were the only group during the 1980s to suffer a drop in income, a decline of 10%. One result: fully 75% of young males 18 to 24 years old are still living at home, the largest proportion since the Great Depression. ... The generation is afraid of relationships in general, and they are the ultimate skeptics when it comes to marriage. Some young adults maintain they will wait to get married, in the hope that time will bring a more compatible mate and the maturity to avoid a divorce. But few of them have any real blueprint for how a successful relationship should function. "We never saw commitment at work," says Robert Higgins, 26, a graduate student in music at Ohio's University of Akron. ... Finding a date on a Saturday night, let alone a mate, is a challenge for a generation that has elevated casual commitment to an art form. Despite their nostalgia for family values, few in their 20s are eager to revive a 1950s mentality about pairing off. Rick Bruno, 22, who will enter Yale Medical School in the fall, would rather think of himself as a free agent. Says he: "Not getting hurt is a big priority with me." Others are concerned that the generation is too detached to form caring relationships. "People are afraid to like each other," says Leslie Boorstein, 21, a photographer from Great Neck, N.Y. ... Because they are fewer in number, today's young adults have the power to wreak havoc in the workplace. Companies are discovering that to win the best talent, they must cater to a young work force that is considered overly sensitive at best and lazy at worst. During the next several years, employers will have to double their recruiting efforts. According to American Demographics, the pool of entry-level workers 16 to 24 will shrink about 500,000 a year through 1995, to 21 million. These youngsters are starting to use their bargaining power to get more of what they feel is coming to them. They want flexibility, access to decision making and a return to the sacredness of work-free weekends. "I want a work environment concerned about my personal growth," says Jennifer Peters, 22, one of the youngest candidates ever to be admitted to the State Bar of California. "I don't want to go to work and feel I'll be burned out two or three years down the road."
December 21, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said: Ok, shift to a decade later if you prefer, but the same premise holds. Somehow that didn't stop the parents of those generations from claiming it would rot our brains. A unique challenge, sure, but my point is that there have always been young, dumb kids, it's not something unique to any particular generation. Of course, the technology has become more efficient at generating captive audiences but painting entire generations with such broad brushstrokes is just as lazy now as it was when your parents did it, or their parents, and so on. We're basically saying the same thing. Young people are stupid, and have always been stupid. But what is new is the ability to weaponize disinformation and really accentuate their ignorance is completely different now due to social media.
December 21, 20231 yr 12 minutes ago, vikas83 said: We're basically saying the same thing. Young people are stupid, and have always been stupid. But what is new is the ability to weaponize disinformation and really accentuate their ignorance is completely different now due to social media. I wouldn't say that's new either, just more efficient in some ways and less in others. Don't get me wrong, social media absolutely sucks in most ways, and as a parent I'm refusing to allow my kids to use it until high school, and even then with a great deal of caution. I don't use it myself for a variety of reasons, but I'm also trying not to fall into the trap of attirbuting blame solely to that alone for kids being as stupid as they are. A lot of them never really had a chance considering how they were raised. The role of social media itself would've been filled by other mediums and they would've gotten their conspiracy theories about aliens, bigfoot, JFK, lizard people, etc from forums, chatrooms, talk radio, 24 hrs cable TV shows, and so on. Hell, I still remember when one of the main 3 networks broadcast a 3 part series about how the moon landings could've been faked in prime time when I was in high school.
December 21, 20231 yr 7 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: the laziness of the parents is at an all-time high as well. 100%. Not just the laziness though. Parents empower their kids to make dumb decisions in an effort to be their friend as opposed to their parent. Terrible parenting is an epidemic and the root of it is this belief that you need to be buddies with your kids. They're not your friends, they're your responsibility.
December 21, 20231 yr Found it. Ironically, it was Fox It was the Fox TV special Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? which aired in prime time (twice) in 2001. Fox even bragged about the show’s impact: The Deseret News reported in 2002 that "a 1999 poll found that 11 percent of the American public doubted the moon landing happened, and Fox officials said such skepticism increased to about 20 percent after their show, which was seen by about 15 million viewers.” According to one report, even a few people at the National Science Foundation thought the hoax was possible after watching the special. https://slate.com/technology/2019/07/fox-moon-landing-hoax-conspiracy-theory-tv-special.html
December 21, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: 100%. Not just the laziness though. Parents empower their kids to make dumb decisions in an effort to be their friend as opposed to their parent. Terrible parenting is an epidemic and the root of it is this belief that you need to be buddies with your kids. They're not your friends, they're your responsibility. yep, to me this is the biggest issue, they let social media be a babysitter so they can be cool in their kids' eyes. how WGB described the way he parents, is the exception these days and not the norm.
December 21, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said: I wouldn't say that's new either, just more efficient in some ways and less in others. Social media absolutely sucks in most ways, don't get me wrong, and as a parent I'm refusing to allow my kids to use it until high school, and even then with a great deal of caution. I don't use it myself for a variety of reasons, but I'm also trying not to fall into the trap that it's solely to blame for kids being stupid. A lot of them never had a chance considering how they were raised. The role of social media itself would've been filled by other mediums and they would've gotten their conspiracy theories about aliens, bigfoot, JFK, lizard people, etc from forums, chatrooms, talk radio, 24 hrs cable TV shows, and so on. Hell, I still remember when one of the main 3 networks broadcast a 3 part series about how the moon landings could've been faked in prime time when I was in high school. It's different when it's in your pocket 24/7, and engineered to attack your adolescent need to gain acceptance by getting likes. Then add on parents who keep telling little Spencer and Audrey that their opinions are valid, they are never wrong, etc. The most eye opening thing for me is I have a few friends who are teachers/administrators. Their nightmare is the parents who come in and argue their kids deserve better grades, or to be on the baseball team.
December 21, 20231 yr 5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: I wouldn't say that's new either, just more efficient in some ways and less in others. Don't get me wrong, social media absolutely sucks in most ways, and as a parent I'm refusing to allow my kids to use it until high school, and even then with a great deal of caution. I don't use it myself for a variety of reasons, but I'm also trying not to fall into the trap of attirbuting blame solely to that alone for kids being as stupid as they are. A lot of them never really had a chance considering how they were raised. The role of social media itself would've been filled by other mediums and they would've gotten their conspiracy theories about aliens, bigfoot, JFK, lizard people, etc from forums, chatrooms, talk radio, 24 hrs cable TV shows, and so on. Hell, I still remember when one of the main 3 networks broadcast a 3 part series about how the moon landings could've been faked in prime time when I was in high school. And kudos for you keeping them off social media until high school. Basically the only way I can even communicate with my nieces is on Instagram (they are the only reason I have the damn app).
December 21, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, vikas83 said: It's different when it's in your pocket 24/7, and engineered to attack your adolescent need to gain acceptance by getting likes. Then add on parents who keep telling little Spencer and Audrey that their opinions are valid, they are never wrong, etc. The most eye opening thing for me is I have a few friends who are teachers/administrators. Their nightmare is the parents who come in and argue their kids deserve better grades, or to be on the baseball team. I wouldn't say that's actually unique to this generation either. I posted an article from Time magazine a few posts up. The author uses the term twentysomething but if you replace it with millenial or zoomer (or whatever the new ones are called), it'd be virtually indistinguishable from what you'd find published today.
December 21, 20231 yr 9 minutes ago, vikas83 said: 100%. Not just the laziness though. Parents empower their kids to make dumb decisions in an effort to be their friend as opposed to their parent. Terrible parenting is an epidemic and the root of it is this belief that you need to be buddies with your kids. They're not your friends, they're your responsibility. what's next? diet tips from @bobeph?
December 21, 20231 yr 6 minutes ago, vikas83 said: And kudos for you keeping them off social media until high school. Basically the only way I can even communicate with my nieces is on Instagram (they are the only reason I have the damn app). I've been fighting the battle for a while (and losing) ever since my oldest figured out how to use youtube. I had to block it on the ipads because it was too difficult to be aware of what she was watching. She still watches it on the main TV and sometimes on my PC but at least there it's much easer to monitor and make sure she's not getting into to some weird ish. So far it's mostly videos of Mr Beast, Mark Rober, and people that film themselves playing arcade and carnival games, but at some point, I know it's gonna get worse.
December 21, 20231 yr Author 5 minutes ago, vikas83 said: It's different when it's in your pocket 24/7, and engineered to attack your adolescent need to gain acceptance by getting likes. Its a HUGE game changer and we can see it all around us. The voice of the fringes, nutjobs, activists, etc. has gained power 100x vs. levels of 20 years ago. Kids aren't any dumber than they were before but the environment around them certainly is far dumber and it accelerates and enables the dumbness like never before. The rapid levels of communication advancement over the last 25 years has had a profound impact on human society. Much of it has been very very good and a good bit has been very very bad. We will cope but the speed of change has overwhelmed us.
December 21, 20231 yr 22 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: yep, to me this is the biggest issue, they let social media be a babysitter so they can be cool in their kids' eyes. how WGB described the way he parents, is the exception these days and not the norm. That's just it, I think it's always been the exception. I remember going to my friends house down the street, and his mom would put on a movie and that dude looked like he was suddenly in a trance. I could tell this was something routine in his house, but for me it was more of a novelty, like a once or twice a week type deal, not every night. Likewise, in high school, I was one of the only families I knew of that turned the TV off during dinner.
December 21, 20231 yr Author Note to parents: You can do all you want at home but your kid doesn't spend all of their time in your house. Much as we managed to get the chance to read a penthouse in some other kid's back shed back in my day, kids of today get their 1st looks at whatever kink is out there at the neighbors or some stay over at someone else's place. Some things never change.
December 21, 20231 yr 6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: I wouldn't say that's actually unique to this generation either. I posted an article from Time magazine a few posts up. The author uses the term twentysomething but if you replace it with millenial or zoomer (or whatever the new ones are called), it'd be virtually indistinguishable from what you'd find published today. I was in high school in the 90s, and that attitude really was rare. Everyone had that one friend with the cool parents. Everyone else viewed parents primarily as akin to a prison warden. My own parents were the enemy, and the goal was to get away with things. Then when you get in real trouble, get mom and dad to bail you out. And then prepare for the consequences.
December 21, 20231 yr Author 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: I was in high school in the 90s, and that attitude really was rare. Everyone had that one friend with the cool parents. Everyone else viewed parents primarily as akin to a prison warden. My own parents were the enemy, and the goal was to get away with things. Then when you get in real trouble, get mom and dad to bail you out. And then prepare for the consequences. Sounds like 90% of all kids. I remember we had a couple of families that let high school kids have drinking parties at their place. They thought it was more controlled that way somehow. Everyone knew who they were.
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