5 hours ago, Mike31mt said:

Such an angry little man.

You're asking me why kids get cancer?  Go ask an oncologist or something, and stop acting like a child and blaming God for bad things that happen to innocent people.  That's not God's promise to us and thats not the point of life.

I'm not blaming God for that. I'm asking you what you believe but you seem to be struggling quite a bit to express that. Seems a bit strange for someone of such conviction, no?

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Jesus said himself that Satan is the ruler of earth until his return.  

Jesus also said that whoever loses their life on earth will gain it in heaven.  That those who have the least on earth will be rewarded the most in heaven.  Go read a Bible and stop being angry at God

So God is unable to stop Satan from giving kids cancer? Sure doesn't sound like omnipotence to me.

 

not sure how you can deny God with clear signs as these.

I really do not hate Christians, or religion. I don't practice any religion. My mother was a Catholic until she left home, my father had no religion I could ever figure out.

I find myself constantly annoyed in my country by people who are smug hypocrites who demand I follow the rules to a religion they mock through their actions. Demanding I follow their laws, that I follow their religious beliefs, and that EVERYONE bow to their God, by law.

Muslims and Jews are not demanding I give up bacon. I am not forced to face Mecca, or wear a yarmulke. I am not forced to build a shrine to my ancestors, I don't have to meditate and find that the jewel is the lotus.

But Christians who clearly throw away everything they consider weak about Christ (you know, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, tolerance) and pray to some jacked up Christ in a 4x4 doing shots of bourbon, and jacking a round up into something he can use to shoot immigrants, I can't stand them.They insist I follow their book when they won't.

On the plus side, not being a believer, I don't have to be Christian in my criticisms. I do apologize to any believers I have offended.

If you are one of the believers praying to Rebel Yell Christ, I do mean to offend you. I believe you are vile, and that your butts crave dry, splintery stovewood.

 

4 hours ago, Mike31mt said:

...You're asking me why kids get cancer?  Go ask an oncologist or something...

Finally... some real progress.

Hallelujah!

29 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

I really do not hate Christians, or religion. I don't practice any religion. My mother was a Catholic until she left home, my father had no religion I could ever figure out.

I find myself constantly annoyed in my country by people who are smug hypocrites who demand I follow the rules to a religion they mock through their actions. Demanding I follow their laws, that I follow their religious beliefs, and that EVERYONE bow to their God, by law.

Muslims and Jews are not demanding I give up bacon. I am not forced to face Mecca, or wear a yarmulke. I am not forced to build a shrine to my ancestors, I don't have to meditate and find that the jewel is the lotus.

But Christians who clearly throw away everything they consider weak about Christ (you know, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, tolerance) and pray to some jacked up Christ in a 4x4 doing shots of bourbon, and jacking a round up into something he can use to shoot immigrants, I can't stand them.They insist I follow their book when they won't.

On the plus side, not being a believer, I don't have to be Christian in my criticisms. I do apologize to any believers I have offended.

If you are one of the believers praying to Rebel Yell Christ, I do mean to offend you. I believe you are vile, and that your butts crave dry, splintery stovewood.

 

👏  👏 

5 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I'm not blaming God for that. I'm asking you what you believe but you seem to be struggling quite a bit to express that. Seems a bit strange for someone of such conviction, no?

So God is unable to stop Satan from giving kids cancer? Sure doesn't sound like omnipotence to me.

God's not unable to stop it.  None of what I'm saying is hard to follow and I'm not struggling at all, you're just being obtuse and showing your arse so everyone thinks you're smart.  I've told you what I believe a number of times, you're being childish as always.  

If an intruder is breaking into your house, do you want God to stop him with a thunderbolt or something?  Should God intervene and stop all bad things on earth from occuring?  I've already told you and you should know, that's not the deal and never has been 

Instead of making these phony circular arguments with me, when I've answered every one of your dumb questions, why dont you just tell us all what you believe?

You're apparently the non-Christian Christian here.  Show us how smart you are and blaspheme for all to see 

 

38 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

God's not unable to stop it.  None of what I'm saying is hard to follow and I'm not struggling at all, you're just being obtuse and showing your arse so everyone thinks you're smart.  I've told you what I believe a number of times, you're being childish as always.  

If an intruder is breaking into your house, do you want God to stop him with a thunderbolt or something?  Should God intervene and stop all bad things on earth from occuring?  I've already told you and you should know, that's not the deal and never has been 

 

So he knows it's happening, has the power to stop it, but just doesn't feel like it? He just watches the kid get cancer, watches the family suffer that unimaginable tragedy of the kid dying when he could've stopped it from ever happening in the first place? So benevolent!

If you're at a sibling's house and your 18 month old nephew is about to walk towards the top of a flight of stairs, and you see it happening and are able to stop it but you don't and instead just watch him tumble down the stairs and see him get hurt, are you being benevolent or malicious? I don't think you'd find a single person on this Earth that would mistake that for benevolence.

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Instead of making these phony circular arguments with me, when I've answered every one of your dumb questions, why dont you just tell us all what you believe?

You're apparently the non-Christian Christian here.  Show us how smart you are and blaspheme for all to see 

You haven't answered them, like at all. It took you like or 6 or 7 posts to even bring up Satan. You'd think you'd just lead with that if that was what you actually believed.

But i'll still answer your question even though you're not answering mine: No, I don't believe God to be omnipotent. An omnipotent God would prevent innocent kids from getting cancer. I stopped believing in Satan since middle school, I've found that it's a crutch awful people use to justify or explain away the evils caused by man and it only serves to further perpetuate a cycle of evil. When you think you're the good guys fighting against the devil, you can ignore some pretty heinous things because in your mind, the ends justify the means. 

And no, I don't care about your interpretations of the Bible, I've already told you that I don't take biblical stories literally.  I don't care about what you think church doctrine tells us about such matters, when the same church doctrine also says gays will burn in hell and has said unbaptized kids won't get into heaven. If that makes me a fake Christian according to you, then so be it. 

Look dude, I'm not trying to convince you of anything here, I know that this is what you've grown up believing and nothing will ever shake you of that belief. But you shouldn't be shocked when some people recoil or find some of the things you say disturbing because of the obvious implications that you seem to be completely oblivious to. 

18 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

So he knows it's happening, has the power to stop it, but just doesn't feel like it? He just watches the kid get cancer, watches the family suffer that unimaginable tragedy of the kid dying when he could've stopped it from ever happening in the first place? So benevolent!

If you're at a sibling's house and your 18 month old nephew is about to walk towards the top of a flight of stairs, and you see it happening and are able to stop it but you don't and instead just watch him tumble down the stairs and see him get hurt, are you being benevolent or malicious? I don't think you'd find a single person on this Earth that would mistake that for benevolence.

You haven't answered them, like at all. It took you like or 6 or 7 posts to even bring up Satan. You'd think you'd just lead with that if that was what you actually believed.

But i'll still answer your question even though you're not answering mine: No, I don't believe God to be omnipotent. An omnipotent God would prevent innocent kids from getting cancer. I stopped believing in Satan since middle school, I've found that it's a crutch awful people use to justify or explain away the evils caused by man and it only serves to further perpetuate a cycle of evil. When you think you're the good guys fighting against the devil, you can ignore some pretty heinous things because in your mind, the ends justify the means. 

And no, I don't care about your interpretations of the Bible, I've already told you that I don't take biblical stories literally.  I don't care about what you think church doctrine tells us about such matters, when the same church doctrine also says gays will burn in hell and has said unbaptized kids won't get into heaven. If that makes me a fake Christian according to you, then so be it. 

Look dude, I'm not trying to convince you of anything here, I know that this is what you've grown up believing and nothing will ever shake you of that belief. But you shouldn't be shocked when some people recoil or find some of the things you say disturbing because of the obvious implications that you seem to be completely oblivious to. 

You are an arrogant ignorant fool 

4 minutes ago, Brianfive said:

You are an arrogant ignorant fool 

I don't claim to be smart. I don't know the answers to unearthly questions. If any of what I've said offended you, I apologize for that as it wasn't my intent.

7 hours ago, lynched1 said:

That’s pretty funny, though I just call it keeping the peace. 

12 hours ago, Brianfive said:

You are an arrogant ignorant fool 

13 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

So he knows it's happening, has the power to stop it, but just doesn't feel like it? He just watches the kid get cancer, watches the family suffer that unimaginable tragedy of the kid dying when he could've stopped it from ever happening in the first place? So benevolent!

If you're at a sibling's house and your 18 month old nephew is about to walk towards the top of a flight of stairs, and you see it happening and are able to stop it but you don't and instead just watch him tumble down the stairs and see him get hurt, are you being benevolent or malicious? I don't think you'd find a single person on this Earth that would mistake that for benevolence.

You haven't answered them, like at all. It took you like or 6 or 7 posts to even bring up Satan. You'd think you'd just lead with that if that was what you actually believed.

But i'll still answer your question even though you're not answering mine: No, I don't believe God to be omnipotent. An omnipotent God would prevent innocent kids from getting cancer. I stopped believing in Satan since middle school, I've found that it's a crutch awful people use to justify or explain away the evils caused by man and it only serves to further perpetuate a cycle of evil. When you think you're the good guys fighting against the devil, you can ignore some pretty heinous things because in your mind, the ends justify the means. 

And no, I don't care about your interpretations of the Bible, I've already told you that I don't take biblical stories literally.  I don't care about what you think church doctrine tells us about such matters, when the same church doctrine also says gays will burn in hell and has said unbaptized kids won't get into heaven. If that makes me a fake Christian according to you, then so be it. 

Look dude, I'm not trying to convince you of anything here, I know that this is what you've grown up believing and nothing will ever shake you of that belief. But you shouldn't be shocked when some people recoil or find some of the things you say disturbing because of the obvious implications that you seem to be completely oblivious to. 

As a "Christian" (putting this in quotes now since you seem to disagree with literally everything in Christian doctrine), your anger at God is pretty childish. 

Again, you expect him to intervene and prevent all pain and suffering on earth?  That's not part of the covenant with humanity and not the point of life on earth.

If that was the case we would not be born on earth and there would quite literally be no point in having an existence in flesh and blood, would there?

His benevolence is represented by the fact that the children who suffer will be greatly rewarded forever in the afterlife.  

 

I've answered everything you've asked, you just don't like it.  You need to face the fact that you're not a Christian and stop misrepresenting yourself.

These aren't views I merely grew up with, these are opinions I've formed over time and careful thought, just like your juvenile anger at God for not solving all of humanity's problems.

And theyre not my interpretations either.  You just wish they were so that you can invent your own Buddy Jesus doctrine that conforms to your modern views.

If people recoil at these ideas, then tough.  That's the entire point.  

 

Enter through the narrow gate;* for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.

How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.

 

12 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

your anger at God is pretty childish. 

Again, you expect him to intervene and prevent all pain and suffering on earth?  That's not part of the covenant with humanity and not the point of life on earth.

Yeah, you're still not getting it. I have no anger with God. I don't get angry at things which I believe are outside of his control. That wouldn't make any sense.

12 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yeah, you're still not getting it. I have no anger with God. I don't get angry at things which I believe are outside of his control. That wouldn't make any sense.

So you believe God is the creator of the entire universe but doesn't have control over certain things. 

Talk about things not making sense.

36 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

So you believe God is the creator of the entire universe but doesn't have control over certain things. 

Talk about things not making sense.

Aquinas would argue that it makes perfect sense.

***Note, I am not a Christian and don't claim to be. I am agnostic. I don't know if God exists, and I'm not sure man can know. And I struggle with accepting the existence of God on faith.***

Yes, bad things happen in this world -- kids get cancer, teams from Boston and Dallas win championships, etc. The ability to have and sustain faith in God in spite of the "evil" in the world is a core tenet of Christianity, IMO.  God is omnipotent, but we are blessed with free will and an earthly plane where pain, suffering, etc. exist. Having faith in the almighty and the promise of eternal paradise in spite of those negative events is the point. Can you believe and have faith in spite of the presence of evil/negative developments/etc.? If God simply never allowed anything bad to happen, having faith would be easy. Having faith when you are suffering is much more difficuly.

And with that, I'll see myself out.

11 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Having faith in the almighty and the promise of eternal paradise in spite of those negative events is the point.

Unless you're an unbaptized baby that dies. Then it's eternal limbo for you, kiddo. That used to be what we were taught growing up. I think it has since fallen out of favor though as the church has attempted to dial back the level of doctrinal guilt from 11 to like a 9 or 8. Another case of modernization (or should I say wokeness) worming its way through religion.

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Unless you're an unbaptized baby that dies. Then it's eternal limbo for you, kiddo. That used to be what we were taught growing up. I think it has since fallen out of favor though as the church has attempted to dial back the level of doctrinal guilt from 11 to like a 9 or 8. Another case of modernization (or should I say wokeness) worming its way through religion.

At least in my experience, the Catholic Church is a lot less dogmatic than their reputation. Hell, they gave a Hindu a scholarship to go to their high school...

16 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

At least in my experience, the Catholic Church is a lot less dogmatic than their reputation. Hell, they gave a Hindu a scholarship to go to their high school...

Eh, it's super regional and even varies quite a bit by the local church/priest. When my wife and I were looking to get married, the church I grew up going to was very traditionalist and strictly required a ton of documentation from both parties because they refused to marry anyone other than two Catholics who had received all sacraments. The one we ended up going with, which was 10 miles away, was completely different and only required proof of baptism (didn't need proof of first communion or confirmation) and only for one party because they allowed a Catholic to marry a non-Chirstian (let alone a non-Catholic). When we met with the priest, he was so much more welcoming and flexible. In his first homily, he was cracking jokes and told the story of the person stranded on the top of their house during a flood waiting to be saved by God (who sent a fireman, a boat, and a helicopter to save him.) They didn't pass around the donation baskets and simply had a donation box at the front of the church. I much preferred that style of Catholicism over the one I grew up in. 

35 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Yes, bad things happen in this world -- kids get cancer, teams from Boston and Dallas win championships, etc.