The talent is still pretty lacking. So is it scheme or talent? Maybe both?

1 hour ago, judunno said:

I agree... we should take Siri out of the planning, design, and situational playcalling decisions 🙂

Well they won't take situational game decisions away from the HC lol...but as for the other two, he clearly needs help.  Obviously it was a bad decision for a young, inexperienced head coach to choose an even less experienced guy to be his offensive coordinator.  They are both collectively failing spectacularly. 

2 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

Well they won't take situational game decisions away from the HC lol...but as for the other two, he clearly needs help.  Obviously it was a bad decision for a young, inexperienced head coach to choose an even less experienced guy to be his offensive coordinator.  They are both collectively failing spectacularly. 

they should have brought in frank as a offensive assistant this week.

2 minutes ago, Soumak said:

they should have brought in frank as a offensive assistant this week.

They have a Run Game Coordinator, a Passing Game Coordinator, an OC, and a QB Coach, yes? So, you want MORE cooks in the already confused and jacked up Kitchen with Frank coming in???!?!?!!? 

13 minutes ago, Soumak said:

they should have brought in frank as a offensive assistant this week.

Yea, bc when BJ makes the schemes part of them are for players to run for 11yds then fumble at the end, or catch balls in the red zone and fumble them there too. And of course let's not forget absolute dimes by Hurts being dropped. That's all part of the BJ scheme...

18 minutes ago, xxeaglesfanxx said:

The talent is still pretty lacking. So is it scheme or talent? Maybe both?

Theres a serious lack of speed on the backend. I would play three safeties with Sydney Brown in there.

19 minutes ago, Portyansky said:

Yea, bc when BJ makes the schemes part of them are for players to run for 11yds then fumble at the end, or catch balls in the red zone and fumble them there too. And of course let's not forget absolute dimes by Hurts being dropped. That's all part of the BJ scheme...

there are several times this year when hurts has looked confused. easy wide open receivers are not being thrown to. if your claim to fame is that you know hurts, shouldn't you be able to teach hurts to throw to open receivers? I agree with you on the fumbles but lets not pretend that this year has been a masterclass of offensive scheming and only players are the reason for the failure of this offense. 

16 minutes ago, Portyansky said:

Yea, bc when BJ makes the schemes part of them are for players to run for 11yds then fumble at the end, or catch balls in the red zone and fumble them there too. And of course let's not forget absolute dimes by Hurts being dropped. That's all part of the BJ scheme...

There have been times where BJ is no to blame but let's not act like the offense under BJ has been very productive. 9ners are showing what an offense full of weapons can do with the right scheme/coaching, if this offense was 70% of the 9ners I would be jumping for joy, but yes there have been times we shot ourselves in the foot. Dallas was one game where our playmakers made rare but huge mistakes. We failed to score 14 points early against the 9ners due to piss poor play calling. Our first 5-6 games our first half scoring was horrible against not so good teams.

Hurts success with the famous QB draw has a lot to do with his legs and play making ability - it does not have to do with BJ "scheming"...…does it sometimes work? Yea maybe in short yardage situations, but it does not need to be a staple play in our playbook. Our offense rarely presents challenges to good defenses and that is frustrating when you have Brown, Smith, Goedert and Swift.......and Hurts when you need him in a pinch. 

40 minutes ago, Soumak said:

they should have brought in frank as a offensive assistant this week.

No they should have hired experienced coordinators this offseason when we knew we had the talent to contend for a few years.......SB potential teams have windows, starting last year we were entering ours (with the right coaching). So far this year I feel like we've pissed it away with Desai and possibly BJ - these have not looked like the right moves. 

Just now, Soumak said:

there are several times this year when hurts has looked confused. easy wide open receivers are not being thrown to. if your claim to fame is that you know hurts, shouldn't you be able to teach hurts to throw to open receivers? I agree with you on the fumbles but lets not pretend that this year has been a masterclass of offensive scheming and only players are the reason for the failure of this offense. 

As much as I love Hurts ... he's not a quick reader of Defenses or great at progressions. He was excellent in the RPO as options were limited to hand off to the Back, run it yourself or pass to option 1 or option 2. Under the RPO there is no time to scan the field or go through many progressions as the process of the RPO takes time itself. This year they have essentially removed the RPO and asked Jalen to act like Tom Brady. He has "to an extent" improved as a passer from last season, but he's not where we need him to be as a "pure passer" to be proficient for as many passing plays as the Eagles are asking of him. That's why we see AJ/Smith or Goedert as the only guys really seeing any action their way. RB's should be getting peppered with check downs as open as they usually are (what Brady would be doing) ... but Jalen's not there yet in the recognition category.

1 hour ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

Well they won't take situational game decisions away from the HC lol...but as for the other two, he clearly needs help.  Obviously it was a bad decision for a young, inexperienced head coach to choose an even less experienced guy to be his offensive coordinator.  They are both collectively failing spectacularly. 

Agreed. Someone with a little more experience would have been preferable. I don't understand the logic really. Maybe they thought they had a loaded offense and we could deal with some growing pains?

17 minutes ago, Rey said:

As much as I love Hurts ... he's not a quick reader of Defenses or great at progressions. He was excellent in the RPO as options were limited to hand off to the Back, run it yourself or pass to option 1 or option 2. Under the RPO there is no time to scan the field or go through many progressions as the process of the RPO takes time itself. This year they have essentially removed the RPO and asked Jalen to act like Tom Brady. He has "to an extent" improved as a passer from last season, but he's not where we need him to be as a "pure passer" to be proficient for as many passing plays as the Eagles are asking of him. That's why we see AJ/Smith or Goedert as the only guys really seeing any action their way. RB's should be getting peppered with check downs as open as they usually are (what Brady would be doing) ... but Jalen's not there yet in the recognition category.

Not sure how you come to this conclusion when we pretty much know what the game plan is as designed by Siri. Spam the top 3 guys essentially. That's literally the plan.

11 minutes ago, Rey said:

As much as I love Hurts ... he's not a quick reader of Defenses or great at progressions. He was excellent in the RPO as options were limited to hand off to the Back, run it yourself or pass to option 1 or option 2. Under the RPO there is no time to scan the field or go through many progressions as the process of the RPO takes time itself. This year they have essentially removed the RPO and asked Jalen to act like Tom Brady. He has "to an extent" improved as a passer from last season, but he's not where we need him to be as a "pure passer" to be proficient for as many passing plays as the Eagles are asking of him. That's why we see AJ/Smith or Goedert as the only guys really seeing any action their way. RB's should be getting peppered with check downs as open as they usually are (what Brady would be doing) ... but Jalen's not there yet in the recognition category.

I actually think he can be. I think part of the issue is he's often put in positions that are synonymous with QBs being set up to run rather than set up to pass. I've said this for the past few weeks, but the Eagles offense for some reason basically has no effective easy stuff. This is actually wrong to say that they asked him to be Tom Brady, it's actually that they asked him to be better than Tom Brady, because Tom if you recall threw short a LOT.

We basically have no passing game in the 1-5 yard area, and very little in the 1-7 area, everything is made for short chunk plays. 

I actually think Jalen would be better in a traditional drop system as weird as that sounds - if you guys didn't realize last year, his best stuff was timing progressions. Now because the route concepts are Fed and timing isn't as important as people managing to get open, he's having a hard time. Since we play out of the gun basically constantly, there's almost no situation where he can just throw at the drop point.

I think you can figure out what a QB is comfortable with by watching what they call in the two minute drill. And you'll notice in the two minute drill all of a sudden Jalen is spreading the ball short all over the field and the majority of the passing game becomes short and intermediate. Tells me something probably isn't right there.

1 hour ago, Soumak said:

they should have brought in frank as a offensive assistant this week.

Agreed, in fact they should have done it the day he got fired. 

2 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

I actually think he can be. I think part of the issue is he's often put in positions that are synonymous with QBs being set up to run rather than set up to pass. I've said this for the past few weeks, but the Eagles offense for some reason basically has no effective easy stuff. This is actually wrong to say that they asked him to be Tom Brady, it's actually that they asked him to be better than Tom Brady, because Tom if you recall threw short a LOT.

We basically have no passing game in the 1-5 yard area, and very little in the 1-7 area, everything is made for short chunk plays. 

I actually think Jalen would be better in a traditional drop system as weird as that sounds - if you guys didn't realize last year, his best stuff was timing progressions. Now because the route concepts are Fed and timing isn't as important as people managing to get open, he's having a hard time. Since we play out of the gun basically constantly, there's almost no situation where he can just throw at the drop point.

I think you can figure out what a QB is comfortable with by watching what they call in the two minute drill. And you'll notice in the two minute drill all of a sudden Jalen is spreading the ball short all over the field and the majority of the passing game becomes short and intermediate. Tells me something probably isn't right there.

If you watch the All-22 film you see Backs and receivers open short, but Hurts' eyes are usually on the deeper patterns. That's on both Jalen and the coaches who are not working on Jalen getting better at taking what the Defenses are giving him short instead of forcing the ball downfield or hoping something opens up past the sticks. Jalen has the ability to improve on this, but it takes time to change his game from what comes naturally to him which is using his legs to buy time if Read 1 & 2 are well covered.

8 minutes ago, Rey said:

If you watch the All-22 film you see Backs and receivers open short, but Hurts' eyes are usually on the deeper patterns. That's on both Jalen and the coaches who are not working on Jalen getting better at taking what the Defenses are giving him short instead of forcing the ball downfield or hoping something opens up past the sticks. Jalen has the ability to improve on this, but it takes time to change his game from what comes naturally to him which is using his legs to buy time if Read 1 & 2 are well covered.

Nice one.  That about sums it up.  Am waiting for Hurts to throw it to #6 who is quite good on the dumpoff.  Easy money.  Goedert too.

I have no issue with Patricia taking over like this, SOMETHING needed to be done. But is it enough?

11 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I have no issue with Patricia taking over like this, SOMETHING needed to be done. But is it enough?

Bottom of the league the last 5 weeks man... MP's pencil calling the defense may be enough to improve on that.

9 minutes ago, judunno said:

Bottom of the league the last 5 weeks man... MP's pencil calling the defense may be enough to improve on that.

I just don't want MP to be the default DC for next year. i mean they are going against a few mediocre to bad teams. i think even if you left Desai on there he would have done better than he did the last few weeks. can't do any worse for sure. but really don't want the eagles to be like MP is the savior because he came in and turned things around against these bad teams! 

5 minutes ago, Soumak said:

I just don't want MP to be the default DC for next year. i mean they are going against a few mediocre to bad teams. i think even if you left Desai on there he would have done better than he did the last few weeks. can't do any worse for sure. but really don't want the eagles to be like MP is the savior because he came in and turned things around against these bad teams! 

Nah Desai lost the team. He's done here. Wish him well.

19 minutes ago, judunno said:

Nah Desai lost the team. He's done here. Wish him well.

i'm good with letting desai go. i think there are better DCs out there. i just don't want it to be MP by default next season. i wonder if the jets will fire robert slaeh. he would be an awesome dc here in philly i think. 

1 hour ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

I actually think he can be. I think part of the issue is he's often put in positions that are synonymous with QBs being set up to run rather than set up to pass. I've said this for the past few weeks, but the Eagles offense for some reason basically has no effective easy stuff. This is actually wrong to say that they asked him to be Tom Brady, it's actually that they asked him to be better than Tom Brady, because Tom if you recall threw short a LOT.

We basically have no passing game in the 1-5 yard area, and very little in the 1-7 area, everything is made for short chunk plays. 

I actually think Jalen would be better in a traditional drop system as weird as that sounds - if you guys didn't realize last year, his best stuff was timing progressions. Now because the route concepts are Fed and timing isn't as important as people managing to get open, he's having a hard time. Since we play out of the gun basically constantly, there's almost no situation where he can just throw at the drop point.

I think you can figure out what a QB is comfortable with by watching what they call in the two minute drill. And you'll notice in the two minute drill all of a sudden Jalen is spreading the ball short all over the field and the majority of the passing game becomes short and intermediate. Tells me something probably isn't right there.

They do throw short aka the WR screens, but neither AJ or Devonta are really suited for those kind of plays, they aren't elusive enough to dodge defenders.

We don't have a RB(or one that is suited up) like McCaffrey or Pollard who can catch the ball, take a hit and drag a defender a few extra yards for a 4-7 yard gain which is ideally what you want with those kinds of plays.

56 minutes ago, judunno said:

Bottom of the league the last 5 weeks man... MP's pencil calling the defense may be enough to improve on that.

That's my fear, but we need to know one way or the other and now's as good a time as any to find out. 

The fact is that the offense and defense are not clicking and steps needed to be taken to fix it. We won’t know until after tonight’s game if this decision was right or wrong. 
 

Edit: updated as I forgot to add "defense” in my comment. 

18 minutes ago, Columbus Eagle said:

The fact is that the offense is not clicking and steps needed to be taken to fix it. We won’t know until after tonight’s game if this decision was right or wrong. 

I guess from the offensive side they can claim that they were close but fumbles and such messed them up. on defense you can't claim it was a few plays that made you lose the game. they were consistently letting teams drive up and down the field without much resistance. basically the only time teams had to punt was when they themselves couldn't convert. personally if i was DC i would just do blitz every play at this point. whats the worst that can happen? they score TDs? its not like they weren't doing that already.