1 hour ago, Quiet Boy said:

Speaking of good RBs with bum knees:

 

If he doesn't get injured in that first NFC Championship Game then Eagles were going to the Super Bowl that year.  Then even though he tore his knee up 3 times he still ended up coming back each time as an effective RB.  Really the first guy to do that.  Just a little bit earlier it was ending all time great's careers like Terrell Davis.  

Still if he was able to stay healthy instead who knows how much that would have changed Eagles history.  Maybe even more than a healthy Westbrook for the 2003 playoffs. 

9 hours ago, just relax said:

Further, the prospect of Mekhi Becton falling into his lap may have altered his plans.

Howie is one step ahead of us, and the rest of the NFL.

Good example of learning on the job, getting sidelined by Chip and having a year to watch seemed to have helped him take it to another level.

And getting burned a few years ago taught him the discipline of BPA.

One key in life is learning from your mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, only a few fail to repeat them.

15 hours ago, bpac55 said:

We'll always have these

He was the best player in the best practice this team has ever had.  That was the year the Eagles went undefeated in joint practices.

14 hours ago, just relax said:

Further, the prospect of Mekhi Becton falling into his lap may have altered his plans.

Definitely — the opportunity cost probably changed drastically with his calculation once Howie understood he could sign him on the cheap.

You wait it out for optionality, which works for both parties. If BPA happened to be an OT — which a lot of us including myself expected was possible — then the eagles wouldn’t want a log jam at OT and Benton wouldn’t want to be the 4th OT.

But if you can get DeJean, Becton, and a third for 2 seconds and some cap space, that’s a hell of a return on resources.

15 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

All this promising depth at CB is probably why Howie was reportedly trying to move up for an OL in round 1 rather than prioritizing CB(if the reports are true).

Say for example Ringo really impresses and Rodgers really impresses. Then suddenly if Mitchell is as good as advertised too, you have 3 guys at CB who could all start on the outside for you all of whom are young enough to be long term staples. And that doesn't even include DeJean. Now obviously, it may not work out that way, so having depth there is good, but just saying that could factor into Howie's thinking for why he was prioritizing OL in the draft.

In an absolute best case scenario where Ringo becomes a plus starter, Rodgers returns to plus starting form, Mitchell is ready to start as a rookie, and DeJean can start as a rookie, AND Slay doesn’t regress, it’s a good problem to have for a year and then we lose Rodgers and Slay and are back to Ringo, Mitchell, and DeJean as our top 3 corners.

 

5 hours ago, austinfan said:

One key in life is learning from your mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, only a few fail to repeat them.

This will be a fun one to revisit if/when our LBs suck again this year.

32 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

This will be a fun one to revisit if/when our LBs suck again this year.

They will likely be improved.  Well let’s just say they can’t be worse really.  
 

In a salary cap league, I think every GM almost has to pick a position group that will be the weakest.  If your desire is to be among the very best at the position groups you prioritize the most, then you will probably need a little luck on your side in order for the group you prioritize the least to be considered, say, above average.  
 

In today’s league, it may be fair to say that LB is a position group that many GMs would place pretty low on their priority list.  

Just now, McMVP said:

They will likely be improved.  Well let’s just say they can’t be worse really.  
 

In a salary cap league, I think every GM almost has to pick a position group that will be the weakest.  If your desire is to be among the very best at the position groups you prioritize the most, then you will probably need a little luck on your side in order for the group you prioritize the least to be considered, say, above average.  
 

In today’s league, it may be fair to say that LB is a position group that many GMs would place pretty low on their priority list.  

So Howie picks LBs to be the weakest position group right after hiring Vic Fangio, of all people, to helm the defense? 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

So Howie picks LBs to be the weakest position group right after hiring Vic Fangio, of all people, to helm the defense? 

Well I was talking about his history with the position.  And he could still have LB rankest lowest…and his hope is that Fangio can get the most out of them.  

They brought in White, Baun, Burks, Okwara, drafted Hunt and Trotter, VanSumeran now has a year under his belt (elite athlete who was very raw), hopefully Dean and Smith are healthy and ready to play a bigger role. They're deeper and much faster.

It's not like he ignored the position.

16 hours ago, just relax said:

Further, the prospect of Mekhi Becton falling into his lap may have altered his plans.

Becton has been a bit of a bust so far in his career, which is why he was available and for a pretty low cost to be a back up OL.  He’s basically replacing Driscoll at this point.  I believe that both Becton and Hennessy took deals hoping to resurrect their careers under Stout.   Frankly, I hope we don’t get to see any of the back ups needing to play.  

6 minutes ago, McMVP said:

Well I was talking about his history with the position.  And he could still have LB rankest lowest…and his hope is that Fangio can get the most out of them.  

Oddly enough, in our two trips to the dance under Howie, our LBs were actually solid those years. He must've assumed that was just a quirky coincidence.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

They brought in White, Baun, Burks, Okwara, drafted Hunt and Trotter, VanSumeran now has a year under his belt (elite athlete who was very raw), hopefully Dean and Smith are healthy and ready to play a bigger role. They're deeper and much faster.

It's not like he ignored the position.

The "throwing ish against the wall" method worked real well last year at S and LB last season too. Sometimes it works (Suh and Joseph) but more often than not it doesn't.

I'm encouraged like others but I think we should slightly pump brakes on the overwhelming talent at young CB talk.  Besides Aj they are currently going against a guy benched by the Giants and literally everyone else was not on a 53-man roster to start last year.  We should at least consider the possibility the level of competition the CBs are going against is poor.  

All a GM can do is try to increase the talent level. Given limited resources (and Howie has stretched that into extra 1st and 2nd day picks the last few years) you have to prioritize - last season the biggest hole on defense was the secondary. He didn't depend on a bunch of athletic but limited young DBs, he brought in CJBJ, drafted two top CBs, picked up Rodgers.

Why didn't he do that at LB? For one thing, he has Dean and Smith on the roster, for another, you play 1-2 ILBs depending on the package, and 0-2 OLBs (depending whether you are playing LBs or stand up pass rushers (Sweat, Huff). Whereas you play 4-6 DBs on a regular basis. So it's more like finding depth behind Dean and Smith than wanting to invest huge resources after using a 1st and 3rd. Baun, Burks and White are veterans with more athleticism than the veteran patches of the past few years, VanSumeran redshirted last season, Trotter will probably red shirt this season.

I get frustrated with Howie often, but I do admire his blueprint.  Set the bar high and don't settle...I hate saying "you can't have a pro-bowler at 22 positions."  BUT...you can't have a 1st or 2nd round pick and/or big contract at 22 positions.

QB is its own specialty that everyone values.  But the rest of the roster...the Eagles emphasize OT/WR, DT, edge (probably in that order).  CB, IOL, TE are positions where they will invest but are not top priority.  S and RB...they've proven they'll pounce when they really like someone, but they aren't going out of their way.  And LB brings up the rear. 

For the most part, I get that.  I think we over-invest in DT.  But LB is a very dependent, read-and-react position.  You don't see many game-changing off-ball LBs anymore.  They are all mismatched covering slot WRs, versatile RBs, and the pass catching TEs.  As a league, the position has gotten smaller to get more viable in coverage (they still aren't), and now they are far too small to shed blocks like the Trotters, Urlachers, and Ray Lewis' of old.  So you've got a position that is mismatched in coverage and completely dependent on the line up front to stop the run.  The rest of the league has followed the Eagles in simply not drafting these guys.

You want LB's that can hang on just long enough in your zone, who take the right angles, and don't miss tackles.  Now, I get that the Eagles typically fall short of that at LB.  But that's not something you burn premium resources on.

29 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

I'm encouraged like others but I think we should slightly pump brakes on the overwhelming talent at young CB talk.  Besides Aj they are currently going against a guy benched by the Giants and literally everyone else was not on a 53-man roster to start last year.  We should at least consider the possibility the level of competition the CBs are going against is poor.  

I don't keep up on any of this...but I would imagine AJ and Devonta Smith (and especially AJ) are going through their reps at half speed.  I doubt they are toasting anyone.

The WRs that are actually trying to get open are Campbell, Smith, Wilson, Covey, etc....Ricks and Jobe should be able to cover those guys, let alone the ones we've invested in.

12 hours ago, just relax said:

Well, duh! Of course he did. Didn’t everyone? Are you saying he lost heart and caved? What are you saying? Should he have done something different, and if so, what, specifically?

I'm saying just what I stated. That I think he wanted to move up for an OT in round 1 and one of the reasons possibly why is because he may have projected the CB group to be better/deeper than other people did.

5 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I'm saying just what I stated. That I think he wanted to move up for an OT in round 1 and one of the reasons possibly why is because he may have projected the CB group to be better/deeper than other people did.

Then why trade up for DeJean when you already took a CB in rd 1?

32 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't keep up on any of this...but I would imagine AJ and Devonta Smith (and especially AJ) are going through their reps at half speed.  I doubt they are toasting anyone.

The WRs that are actually trying to get open are Campbell, Smith, Wilson, Covey, etc....Ricks and Jobe should be able to cover those guys, let alone the ones we've invested in.

Smith hasn't been there (not an issue) so Aj is literally the only receiver there of proven substance.  From all accounts the Hurts-AJ combo has been fine tho mostly worked on short passes in limited reps.  So yeah the 'plays' being made by the DBs are against non NFL starters and that's a kind assessment as most aren't 53-man roster guys either

4 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

Then why trade up for DeJean when you already took a CB in rd 1?

Precisely.  Plus the trade up (and overpay to do it) signifies Howie did not see the CB prospects as better/deeper

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Precisely.  Plus the trade up (and overpay to do it) signifies Howie did not see the CB prospects as better/deeper

Even with all we've heard the odds of us having 2 high quality young starters at outside CB in 2025 are probably 50/50 at best.  OTAs aren't the regular season.  I'm not being negative because I do think it could happen but getting 2 say borderline pro bowl players to emerge isn't trivial

18 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

All this promising depth at CB is probably why Howie was reportedly trying to move up for an OL in round 1 rather than prioritizing CB(if the reports are true).

Say for example Ringo really impresses and Rodgers really impresses. Then suddenly if Mitchell is as good as advertised too, you have 3 guys at CB who could all start on the outside for you all of whom are young enough to be long term staples. And that doesn't even include DeJean. Now obviously, it may not work out that way, so having depth there is good, but just saying that could factor into Howie's thinking for why he was prioritizing OL in the draft.

Is there ANY scenario where Rodgers, Mitchell, Ringo and DeJean instill enough confidence that Slay could be moved? I know there are huge cap implications and he's a veteran presence this team needs. 

I think best case scenario is they just decide to go heavy at CB. It gives them more flexibility down the road when Slay isn't on the roster. I'd rather have an extra CB for a year instead of trying to find one when the time comes.

27 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

Then why trade up for DeJean when you already took a CB in rd 1?

Because they like his versatility and my guess is had a first round grade on him and he was one of the few guys in the 2nd round still available that they had first round grades on so it came down to just amassing talent. And I'm not saying they didn't consider CB a need. I think they considered it a big need. Just that they considered OT a bigger need possibly because of the potential that the CBs could've been better than others expected. But potential isn't a certainty so I think they definitely still wanted to invest there significantly, even if this is how Howie viewed things.

12 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

If he doesn't get injured in that first NFC Championship Game then Eagles were going to the Super Bowl that year.  Then even though he tore his knee up 3 times he still ended up coming back each time as an effective RB.  Really the first guy to do that.  Just a little bit earlier it was ending all time great's careers like Terrell Davis.  

Still if he was able to stay healthy instead who knows how much that would have changed Eagles history.  Maybe even more than a healthy Westbrook for the 2003 playoffs. 

 I loved Buckhalter. I think he could have been special if he never got hurt. His Eagles numbers were terrific. 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Att	Yds	TD	1D	Succ%	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Succ%	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV	Awards
2001	23	PHI	RB	28	15	6	129	586	2	30	41.1	48	4.5	39.1	8.6	21	13	130	10.0	0	5	38.1	26	0.9	8.7	61.9%	6.2	142	5.0	716	2	2	5
2003	25	PHI	RB	28	15	5	126	542	8	31	46.8	64	4.3	36.1	8.4	14	10	133	13.3	1	6	57.1	27	0.7	8.9	71.4%	9.5	136	5.0	675	9	3	6
2006	28	PHI	RB	28	16	1	83	345	2	16	54.2	20	4.2	21.6	5.2	28	24	256	10.7	1	11	57.1	55	1.5	16.0	85.7%	9.1	107	5.6	601	3	2	4	AP CPoY-6
2007	29	PHI	RB	28	14	2	62	313	4	17	48.4	30	5.0	22.4	4.4	21	12	87	7.3	0	7	47.6	14	0.9	6.2	57.1%	4.1	74	5.4	400	4	1	3
2008	30	PHI	RB	28	14	2	76	369	2	18	48.7	33	4.9	26.4	5.4	32	26	324	12.5	2	15	65.6