On 7/15/2024 at 12:32 PM, Alphagrand said:

Every offense has blitz recognition and counters, and every worthwhile coach backs his players publicly.  Even if an NFL offense is void of blitz recognition and pick up, any worthwhile NFL QB should know how to audible into a successful play at the LOS.

Agree yet we were told again if im remembering by the coaches that those didnt exist in eagles O.

27 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I am not saying I don't believe him because I think he talked to the coaches.  I just don't think they made significant changes to the offense over the course of the season.  

He didn’t say they made significant changes.  he just said they cut down on some of the stuff on offense that dealt with things he was struggling with. He didn’t say they made a ton of changes to the offense in terms of changing the entire playbook and making a new offense. I don’t think he was referring to what they did in 2021 where the offense wasn’t working in the first couple weeks so completely flipped the script. Just that they decided he was struggling with certain plays/things and cut down on doing them 

Regarding Hurts and Siri, there are things that you can observe from actions and hearing them in interviews. Siri is more expressive and impulsive with his emotions. Hurts is more stoic and doesn't show the emotion, except pre-game hype and celebrating TDs. Look no further than Hurts trying to calm Siri and put his arms down when he was screaming at the refs a couple years ago. It also appeared to me that Hurts posture and body language coming out of the huddle didn't exude confidence. I got the impression he didn't like the play calls. We also saw play breakdowns last year that showed the WR routes were simple and limiting. Brown and Smith have both said a couple times this offseason that the new coaches are allowing them more freedom to use their skills and not as limiting. That's obviously coaching.

Speculation and guesses:  It's possible that Hurts didn't trust the play design and play calling. It's possible that he had hopes for Johnson as OC but when didn't perform as well, he was frustrated and torn because of the relationship. Some coaches are better suited where they're at and don't do well after promotion. Even some head coaches that fail go back to being successful coordinators. It's possible that Hurts was coached on specifics that he didn't agree with but went along. If he called too many audibles then people would argue he's going against his coaches. Hopefully a lot of these questions will be answered when we see the new offense.

IMO the biggest issue on offense was coaching. In 2022 the season started out with less running plays and less productivity. Fans complained a lot about the offense. Siri was calling the plays. Siri handed play calling to Steichen, and the running game and overall offense improved. Hurts made all the throws including staying in the pocket, deep passes, accurate throws in tight coverage, all the things people say he can't do. 

Steichen left, BJ took over and the offense struggled. There was less creativity, Hurts looked less confident coming out of the huddle, players were shaking their heads on the field in disbelief or frustration (seemingly at the play calls), players were arguing on the sidelines. Hurts regressed and I don't know if it was frustration, or the slump got in his head or what. But even the O line was not playing well in stretches and Hurts was running for his life. Quez regressed to almost JJAW levels. Smith and Brown are so good they still produced but they were frustrated by the route tree (which people on Twitter broke down the limited routes).

Siri said it's his offense, yet it was very different from Steichen to Johnson, and now it's going to be very different with Moore. Siri as head coach should have been seeing the problems and addressing them, making adjustments. Have an answer for the blitz, get more creative in WR routes, use more creative motion. But he didn't, and Johnson may have been too inexperienced to come up with answers. Siri defended Hurts last season saying that he was doing what he was coached to do, especially when asked about why he misses open guys and forces the ball to Brown and Smith (and ignores every TE when Goedert is injured). That is probably just a coach supporting his QB but if it's true then that's another coaching issue.

Now they hired Moore and the offense will look different again.

Already this offseason the WRs are saying they're happy that the new coaches are giving them more freedom and flexibility. When Hurts talked about the "95%" difference he clarified to say most plays look the same around the league but it's in the terminology and what players are asked to do. The way the WR runs the route, for the QB where to look, foot position, steps in the drop back, technical details. Lane Johnson was on Cowherd and said one of the main issues last year was the inability to make adjustments. He said as a team, but that's mainly coaching. 

I wouldn't write Brian Johnson's whole career off because he wasn't good last year.  Steichen was not very good in his first season as a coordinator in San Diego.  But from an Eagles perspective Brian Johnson wasn't good enough last year and they upgraded to someone with much more proven experience

14 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Possible.   I made it a point to head up to TC for a couple days every offseason.   It was a lot of fun.  Get to yuck it up with some other fans and discuss things with like minded individuals long before the EMB ever existed.   I remember when I was a teenager, about 14 I guess, my dad took a day off work and surprised me by just driving over for a day.  Two things stood out to me on that... 1 - my dad almost never took a day off from work unless it was an emergency, or a planned family vacation, this was out of the norm.   And 2 - I had never gotten to be that close to NFL players before.  I'd never been to a game, because we didn't have the money for tickets (which is why my dad was almost always at work), and I didn't know that you could go to practice like that!  We just pulled up, walked over to the practice field... and there in front of me was the Gang Green defense warming up.   That was a special day, and future generations of fans won't get that.   Flight Night doesn't come even close to that.  You aren't up close to the players... you are miles away compared to when you were at WCU or Lehigh.   Just a completely different thing all together.    (And if you timed it during two-a-days... you'd go to the morning practice, see them hit... and then go out for a quick lunch, and finally, come back for the afternoon, which might be hitting again, or might just be some positional drills.)

 

It's a shame for the kids mostly.  

I started taking my son and a friend or two to practices when he was in elementary school.  Then when he was playing in middle school we would go to the fence and watch the line drills because he played on both lines, plus the ST drills.  In High School, his OL position coach was pleasantly surprised about his technique.  That was from watching Castillo with his punch and sled drills (and from sharing with him some @just relax wisdom.). It is unfortunate for the kids.  The Eagles think they can replace that with boardwalk games one night a year.   They just don’t get it.

i enjoyed talking football with folks in the stands. 

1 hour ago, UK Eagle said:

Worth pointing out there were a lot of examples over last season where Hurts had WRs, TEs and RBs open to throw to, but wouldn't and would run or take a sack/hit or throw an incompletion to other players.  It wasn't just the lack of progressions or motion where the O had issues. It was Hurts focus on throwing to certain targets only.

I think he too often focused on AJ or Devonta.  I am not sure how often he passed up open throws downfield.  I think he was too reliant on his mobility and did not take outlet throws when he should have.  I think part of it was a flaw in the design of the offense.  It seems like they often had AJ or Devonta as the primary read and they needed to design more plays where a RB was the primary read out of the backfield.  

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He didn’t say they made significant changes.  he just said they cut down on some of the stuff on offense that dealt with things he was struggling with. He didn’t say they made a ton of changes to the offense in terms of changing the entire playbook and making a new offense. I don’t think he was referring to what they did in 2021 where the offense wasn’t working in the first couple weeks so completely flipped the script. Just that they decided he was struggling with certain plays/things and cut down on doing them 

I just don't think they had a lot of plays that required reading the entire field.  I think most of the offense was one or two reads.  They may have made adjustments to certain plays but I don't think they made some sort of wholesale change because of Hurts. 

16 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I just don't think they had a lot of plays that required reading the entire field.  I think most of the offense was one or two reads.  They may have made adjustments to certain plays but I don't think they made some sort of wholesale change because of Hurts. 

He didn’t say they made wholesale changes. What he said was they cut down on some of the pass plays where he was struggling. Again he never said they made wholesale changes. What he said was fans might not have realized it because they went to the Super Bowl and he was able to make up for it in other areas. it might’ve only been like 4-6 pass plays they cut down on and you really wouldn’t notice it unless you really paid attention or talked to the coaches.

I don’t think he was saying they completely changed the passing game because of his limitations. I think they already had some knowledge of what his limitations were to begin with. They already skewed the passing game to more of what he was good at.  they probably had a handful of plays that weren’t a strength of his to start the year. But when they got to midseason and saw they really weren’t working very well they cut down on them and used more plays from the playbook that he was doing well at. Which makes sense because if you’re a coach and you see your player continuously keep struggling with it. Why are you gonna keep calling those plays at the percentage you are? You’re probably gonna reduce those and increase the plays that you see him do really well on during the course of that year.

 

47 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

I wouldn't write Brian Johnson's whole career off because he wasn't good last year.  Steichen was not very good in his first season as a coordinator in San Diego.  But from an Eagles perspective Brian Johnson wasn't good enough last year and they upgraded to someone with much more proven experience

I just couldn't take another obvious 3rd and goal draw from the 8.

17 hours ago, eagle45 said:

We’ll find out this year.  

If you want to be encouraged by the changes, read this: https://www.insidethebirds.com/10613-2-analytics-report-philadelphia-eagles-offense-jalen-hurts/  There are 2 things that are telling to me: 

According to NextGenStats, Hurts had the second-lowest completion percentage expected in the NFL at 61.3%.

This means that based on the throws Hurts attempted, he had a probability of completing only 61.3% of his passes.

In reality, Hurts completed 65.4% of his passes in the regular season – 65.79% if postseason is included.

This means that Hurts had a completion percentage over expectation (CPOE) of 4.1%, fourth-highest in the NFL.

Hurts’ 4.1% CPOE means he outperformed the throws he was expected to complete.

and 

Part of the reason for Hurts’ rapid decline on deep balls is that the Eagles curiously insisted on repeatedly throwing deep against the blitz, even when that strategy wasn’t working.

As a result, teams brought pressure significantly more often. Hurts was pressured almost 40% more in 2023 than in 2022.

When opposing teams brought pressure, they married pressure with coverage that could handle Hurts’deep ball.

There’s little doubt that defensive coordinators schemed pressure to bait Hurts into deep throws that they were confident would be covered – a major part of the undoing of the Eagles’ offense.

The Eagles became predictable, and their problems stemmed from lacking answers to that pressure.

Maybe you can attribute the low percentage throws and deep throws against the blitz entirely to Hurts' and his ego.  Even if that is the case, it speaks to a coaching issue where Hurts wasn't listening to coaching to correct the problem.  I tend to think the problem was more scheme based and they had inadequate solutions to repeated issues.  My sense with Hurts is that he is receptive to coaching.  I am hoping Moore gives him some better options and more open receivers in pressure situations.  

 

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

I just couldn't take another obvious 3rd and goal draw from the 8.

What about when Saquon plays center? 

Zangaro giving us his Nasty Nate candidates

 

 

Just now, NCiggles said:

What about when Saquon plays center? 

I would still love to know how they thought that play with zeke was ever gonna Fing work

16 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He didn’t say they made wholesale changes. What he said was they cut down on some of the pass plays where he was struggling. Again he never said they made wholesale changes. What he said was fans might not have realized it because they went to the Super Bowl and he was able to make up for it in other areas. it might’ve only been like 4-6 pass plays they cut down on and you really wouldn’t notice it unless you really paid attention or talked to the coaches.

I don’t think he was saying they completely changed the passing game because of his limitations. I think they already had some knowledge of what his limitations were to begin with. They already skewed the passing game to more of what he was good at.  they probably had a handful of plays that weren’t a strength of his to start the year. But when they got to midseason and saw they really weren’t working very well they cut down on them and used more plays from the playbook that he was doing well at

OK 

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I would still love to know how they thought that play with zeke was ever gonna Fing work

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I would still love to know how they thought that play with zeke was ever gonna Fing work

Someone in the Philly media should ask now that the guy who called it is here 

28 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

If you want to be encouraged by the changes, read this: https://www.insidethebirds.com/10613-2-analytics-report-philadelphia-eagles-offense-jalen-hurts/  There are 2 things that are telling to me: 

According to NextGenStats, Hurts had the second-lowest completion percentage expected in the NFL at 61.3%.

This means that based on the throws Hurts attempted, he had a probability of completing only 61.3% of his passes.

In reality, Hurts completed 65.4% of his passes in the regular season – 65.79% if postseason is included.

This means that Hurts had a completion percentage over expectation (CPOE) of 4.1%, fourth-highest in the NFL.

Hurts’ 4.1% CPOE means he outperformed the throws he was expected to complete.

and 

Part of the reason for Hurts’ rapid decline on deep balls is that the Eagles curiously insisted on repeatedly throwing deep against the blitz, even when that strategy wasn’t working.

As a result, teams brought pressure significantly more often. Hurts was pressured almost 40% more in 2023 than in 2022.

When opposing teams brought pressure, they married pressure with coverage that could handle Hurts’deep ball.

There’s little doubt that defensive coordinators schemed pressure to bait Hurts into deep throws that they were confident would be covered – a major part of the undoing of the Eagles’ offense.

The Eagles became predictable, and their problems stemmed from lacking answers to that pressure.

Maybe you can attribute the low percentage throws and deep throws against the blitz entirely to Hurts' and his ego.  Even if that is the case, it speaks to a coaching issue where Hurts wasn't listening to coaching to correct the problem.  I tend to think the problem was more scheme based and they had inadequate solutions to repeated issues.  My sense with Hurts is that he is receptive to coaching.  I am hoping Moore gives him some better options and more open receivers in pressure situations.  

 

I think this is hand in glove with the lack of quick outlet/hot crossing routes to the middle of the field on those plays. You can beat the blitz with the long ball if you make them also defend the middle of the field, but we all know this, the coaching staff last year....not so much.

27 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

What about when Saquon plays center? 

are we going to get that?  I don't think we're going to get that.

So we got a good UDFA class

49 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I would still love to know how they thought that play with zeke was ever gonna Fing work

If you recall just before that play, they were reviewing the Shultz sideline catch which was clearly going to get over turned, putting Dallas back on the 24 yard line with time left for one play. I believe McCarthy knew they weren’t scoring a TD in one play from 76 yards away against that defense, so he just decided the next best thing was to give the football world some good meme fodder for the coming off season. 

19 minutes ago, RLC said:

So we got a good UDFA class

How does this work? They report to the UFL if they get cut?

8 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

If you recall just before that play, they were reviewing the Shultz sideline catch which was clearly going to get over turned, putting Dallas back on the 24 yard line with time left for one play. I believe McCarthy knew they weren’t scoring a TD in one play from 76 yards away against that defense, so he just decided the next best thing was to give the football world some good meme fodder for the coming off season. 

I’d love to know if it was a Mike McCarthy or Kellen Moore design play. Also, what was it supposed to look like if it worked?

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d love to know if it was a Mike McCarthy or Kellen Moore design play. Also, what was it supposed to look like if it worked?

I really hope it was a McCarthy design. 

31 minutes ago, RLC said:

So we got a good UDFA class

UFL has a relationship with the NFL.  Sure seems like assignment ala NFL Europe isn’t far behind.  Wonder if the NFL uses the UFL as an intermediary with their foreign development projects as a way for those international prospects in addition to every team gets a free PS player from the international pool.