41 minutes ago, RLC said:

DTs generally get going in year 3. So it's put up or shut up from Jordan Davis.

Vince Wilfork year 3 had 51 tackles 1 sack 1 tfl 4 qb hits.

The next year he made his 1st of 5 pro bowls with 1 more sack less tackles 3 more TFL and 4 more qb hits 

I consider Vince Wilfork one of the top NTs of his era and looking at his raw stats one would think how the heck was he a 5 time pro bowler 3 time all pro?

Because his impact on the game outweighed the raw stats 

When Davis is right he can be an impactful player on D, he just needs better conditioning, he was really good the 1st part of the season then he wore out and petered off.

If he cam keep up his conditioning I dont care what his stats are I think he can be an impact defender.

I get the end of last season was a trainwreck, but let's not forget Davis absolutely played like a first round pick for the first half of the year. Nobody played well the last quarter-ish.

Now he gets to play with an actual pro DC. And he's at the point where he's had plenty of time to optimize his conditioning.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

8 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Vince Wilfork year 3 had 51 tackles 1 sack 1 tfl 4 qb hits.

The next year he made his 1st of 5 pro bowls with 1 more sack less tackles 3 more TFL and 4 more qb hits 

I consider Vince Wilfork one of the top NTs of his era and looking at his raw stats one would think how the heck was he a 5 time pro bowler 3 time all pro?

Because his impact on the game outweighed the raw stats 

When Davis is right he can be an impactful player on D, he just needs better conditioning, he was really good the 1st part of the season then he wore out and petered off.

If he cam keep up his conditioning I dont care what his stats are I think he can be an impact defender.

Wilfork was the 21st pick and the Patriots stayed at their slot to take him. The Eagles traded a 1st, 4th and 2 5ths for Jordan Davis. I expect more for that investment to be honest.

On 5/5/2024 at 2:09 PM, bpac55 said:

Wilfork was the 21st pick and the Patriots stayed at their slot to take him. The Eagles traded a 1st, 4th and 2 5ths for Jordan Davis. I expect more for that investment to be honest.

More than a 3 time  all pro because they traded some late day picks to move up a few spots?

I think your expectations are wildly unrealistic.

17 hours ago, just relax said:

Who would you rather have? Siakim or Tobias? 
 

You can outscore Tobias from your death bed and outhustle him from your grave.

Not much of a choice there.   Siakim, obviously.   The issue with Tobias is that he is paid like a stud, and plays like he's not even a spare part.

27 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Wilfork was the 21st pick and the Patriots stayed at their slot to take him. The Eagles traded a 1st, 4th and 2 5ths for Jordan Davis. I expect more for that investment to be honest.

They traded even value for Davis according to the trade value chart.  You should have huge expectations for Cooper DeJean, because Howie got taken to the cleaners on that move, according to draft trade value.

22 minutes ago, Utebird said:

More than a 3 time pro all pro because they traded some late day picks to move up a few spots?

I think your expectations are wildly unrealistic.

No, I don't expect him to be more than a 3 time all-pro, but yes, I expect much more from him given then investment. 4 picks is still 4 picks. 

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

They traded even value for Davis according to the trade value chart.  You should have huge expectations for Cooper DeJean, because Howie got taken to the cleaners on that move, according to draft trade value.

I do have huge expectations for DeJean, but he's also a guy I wanted in the draft. Cooper DeJean is going to be a guy who doesn't come off the field. I wanted nothing to do with Jordan Davis, and definitely didn't want the Eagles trading up for a guy who won't be on the field half the time. 

4 hours ago, mattwill said:

Theme?  Why does a Draft have to have a theme?  In fact, given the individuality of the circumstances of each individual pick, how is it possible to unify those individual picks into a single theme?

It shouldn't. I'm asking because the conversation above suggested Howie shifted philosophy from championship/winning schools with players that have egos, to guys from smaller schools with chips on their shoulder. I think you just build a draft board of the best talent that best fits your team, but the suggestion is he specifically targeted guys with chips on their shoulder and something to prove which would be a theme, and would mean ignoring potential talent because of the school they went to.

Just now, Alphagrand said:

They traded even value for Davis according to the trade value chart.  You should have huge expectations for Cooper DeJean, because Howie got taken to the cleaners on that move, according to draft trade value.

False equivalence right there.   Davis was selected in the top 15 of the NFL draft.  The trade value chart doesn't matter... Davis needs to play like a top 15 pick to make the pick worthwhile.  Meanwhile, Dejean is a high 2nd round pick.  They did overpay for the PICK, but its not about the PICK, its about the player.   Dejean is a guy that a lot of folks would have been happy with at 22.   What they gave up for Dejean puts him at a much lower expectation level due to draft cost.   Top 15 versus top of Round 2.   Dramatically different value.

I think the venn diagram of people who didn't want to draft Jordan Davis and people who think he has played poorly is just one circle. 

10 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I do have huge expectations for DeJean, but he's also a guy I wanted in the draft. Cooper DeJean is going to be a guy who doesn't come off the field. I wanted nothing to do with Jordan Davis, and definitely didn't want the Eagles trading up for a guy who won't be on the field half the time. 

I think under Vics 34 D Davis as a NT could be on the field more.

But i get what you are saying, tough to justify a top 15 pick on a guy who might be a part time guy.

We'll see, this year is put up or shut up for him, no more excuses, if he shows up and then trails off because he runs out of steam like last year then its a pattern and hes not a guy one can count on for a full season.

I think he has all the potential and ability of a top 15 pick but im not sure he has the conditioning to meet expectations.

I hope he does because it would suck to use all those resources and time to have him JAG out.

17 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

No, I don't expect him to be more than a 3 time all-pro, but yes, I expect much more from him given then investment. 4 picks is still 4 picks. 

3 picks really as one traded a lower 1st to get a higher 1st.

They didnt trade an extra first right?

I expect more than what hes shown as well but if you are expecting a bunch of sacks and qb pressures, thats not his game.

Id be happy with vince wilfork stats if it contributed to top team defense 

32 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

They traded even value for Davis according to the trade value chart.  You should have huge expectations for Cooper DeJean, because Howie got taken to the cleaners on that move, according to draft trade value.

Depends on the chart.

 

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

They traded even value for Davis according to the trade value chart.  You should have huge expectations for Cooper DeJean, because Howie got taken to the cleaners on that move, according to draft trade value.

That’s a good point that was missed in all the excitement over getting Dejean - the Eagles basically gave the Commanders the equivalent value of the #29th pick in the draft for the #40 pick, so we effectively traded up into the bottom of the first round to get him and didn’t get a player with a fifth year option. We also overpaid for the 40th pick to a division rival. 
 

Btw, this is using the Draftek trade value chart. 

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

Wilfork was the 21st pick and the Patriots stayed at their slot to take him. The Eagles traded a 1st, 4th and 2 5ths for Jordan Davis. I expect more for that investment to be honest.

Ugh shawn andrews

The Jordan Davis thing is simple. Howie himself said they did what they did to get him because they believed he could develop as a pass rusher, and if he didn’t it probably wasnt a good use of resources. It’s not just about being a good NT, he needs to develop beyond that. 

5 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

Exactly.  Just substitute Rodgers for Kap in your statement above and you understand why Rodgers has taken some flak from people while being defended by others.

Their issues were different … Kaep to the social justice left and Rogers to the anti-vax right, but they both lost sight of the vast majority of America that is in the middle and not polarized.

18 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The Jordan Davis thing is simple. Howie himself said they did what they did to get him because they believed he could develop as a pass rusher, and if he didn’t it probably want a good use of resources. It’s not just about being a good NT, he needs to develop beyond that. 

The first 4 weeks of the season will tell. Has Hurtt managed to develop Davis where Rocker didn't? It's not like there was much development at DT in Rocker's tenure

2 hours ago, Utebird said:

More than a 3 time pro all pro because they traded some late day picks to move up a few spots?

I think your expectations are wildly unrealistic.

HOF got damnit or bust

34 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Their issues were different Kaep to the social justice left and Rogers to the anti-vax right, but they both lost sight of the vast majority of America that is in the middle and not polarized.

I hate far left .. i hate far right, I hate walking far, i hate Brett Far

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Ugh shawn andrews

Andrews was an All pro and pro bowler, in 2006 he was arguably the most dominant OL in football, one couldnt have predicted hed go off the rails a couple years later.

He stays Healthy he could have ended up with a gold jacket.

Too bad his struggles with mental health ended his career. 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The Jordan Davis thing is simple. Howie himself said they did what they did to get him because they believed he could develop as a pass rusher, and if he didn’t it probably want a good use of resources. It’s not just about being a good NT, he needs to develop beyond that. 

And since then eagles have switched to a 34, being a pass rusher at NT in a 34 isnt really conducive to pass rushing.

But if he can consistently collapse the pocket and allow others to get to the qb that has tremendous value.

7 minutes ago, Utebird said:

And since then eagles have switched to a 34, being a pass rusher at NT in a 34 isnt really conducive to pass rushing.

But if he can consistently collapse the pocket and allow others to get to the qb that has tremendous value.

Has it been confirmed that they’re switching to a 34? I’ve only heard they will use multiple fronts including but not limited to 34

12 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Has it been confirmed that they’re switching to a 34? I’ve only heard they will use multiple fronts including but not limited to 34

Yeah im not sure, im sure the coaches want to keep it under wraps, we'll see🤷‍♂️