5 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

One thing about Dotson is that Washington wanted him to be an outside receiver (80 and 60 percent of his snaps were on the outside his first two seasons) when he's probably strictly a slot receiver due to his size limitations. I think it shows how a player can get devalued when he is a square peg getting jammed into a round hole. 

no, he's about the same weight as D Smith,  he can play Z, flanker.   If they're putting him on the line of scrimmage,  that's something different.

He's a backup for D Smith, does what D Smith does.

If it's not him,  then, who is it?

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Because ir sounds like he gets beat for jump situation balls down the field.  Both based on that troubling stat and what fans have been saying on the Commanders subreddit.  He's a smaller guy who doesn't win those type of battles with more physical DBs.  Their are also the reports that he hasn't looked good this summer for them and has had a poor attitude in camp. It's all a bit of those Reagor/Quez vibes.

Dotson at combine pro day time was shorter than Devonta Smith,  and heavier than Devonta Smith,  slightly longer hands and slightly shorter arms.  Poor mans Devonta Smith,  backup to Devonta Smith,  great new insurance if Devonta Smith was to be out.  Not as good as Devonta Smith,  but they said that Dotson was a good route runner with good hands, like Devonta Smith.   We don't have combine or pro day data for Smith, but we do for Dotson,  and his best number was his 40, 4.43, and his worst number was his 3 cone, 7.28.    The Eagles have a really quick guy who is shorter than Dotson who is a slot receiver who could play Z, but is more of a slot receiver,  and 2 fast guys,  who are or were much faster than Dotson.   The Eagles need a player to be a Smith backup, and Dotson,  good routes, good hands, can be that Smith backup.   If people want to see him on the field,  he can play Z,  and Smith can be in the slot. 

3 hours ago, paco said:

Found it

The pro rated signing bonus doesn’t hit our cap. It is below 2mm this year, and just the guaranteed salary of 2.757 in 2025. 

Posted this in the trade thread, but thought some in here might enjoy another view on the trade:

Let me give you another perspective — "expected value.” A third round pick has about a 25% chance to become a starter, and a rookie contract is 4 years long. So the "expected value” of a 3rd round pick is 1 year of a starting caliber player.

Well, Dotson has proven he can be a competent, if unspectacular, starter. And we have him locked up for 2 years on cheap rookie money, PLUS we have a team option for a 3rd season.

This is a spectacularly good trade just by looking at the math of it and what each team would project to get. We got DOUBLE the expected value of our third round pick, PLUS a team option on a third year, PLUS a 5th round pick.

And that’s not even using the "time value” of draft picks which is generally a full round lower for every year in the future. If you apply that discount, it’s even better.

As I analyze this trade from a purely statistical perspective, it might be one of the best deals Howie has ever done from a pure risk/reward perspective. Which is really saying something.

Now obviously Dotson may be a total flop, but just looking at this dispassionately from a math perspective it’s a massive, massive win.

49 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

One thing about Dotson is that Washington wanted him to be an outside receiver (80 and 60 percent of his snaps were on the outside his first two seasons) when he's probably strictly a slot receiver due to his size limitations. I think it shows how a player can get devalued when he is a square peg getting jammed into a round hole. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was because of Rivera and wanting to make Curtis Samuel a thing. 

51 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Not a terrible comparison honestly. Matt Canada was supposedly why Pickett sucked, QB instability was the reason Dotson underperformed. Forget that Pickett was a project pocket passer with decent not great measurables and Dotson is 180 lbs and is overly reliant on contested catches.

Not trying to kill the move, but I think folks should be a little more cautious with their optimism here.

Maybe he can be 2017 Agholor, which is his upside at this point I think. I hope that's what we get. But the Commanders gave up on Dotson for a reason.

I'm probably going to be typing lots of words on this for some hours.

Picketts measurables - ras wise - were in the 9s, and Dotsons were in the 6s.   I would have ruled Dotson out as a first rounder based on his measurables.     With a first, I'd want top measurables and top performance.

I don't think the Eagles needed anything at WR.  The only thing they really needed was a backup to D Smith could could run routes well, and they say Dotson can do that.   There is no reason for Dotson to be on the field, really,  he should just be D Smith as well as he can,  to do what D Smith does, so that D Smith can come off the field and rest.  And,  if D Smith was off the field for a while,  Dotson would then get a lot of snaps.

at slot,   Britain Covey is quicker,  substantially,  much better 3 cone,  better 10 split, not as good long speed.   Parris Campbell is faster,  John Ross is faster,   Johnny Wilson is bigger.    Runs routes best is where Dotson is supposed to be good, as well as good hands, and college highlights have a lot of going and finding the long pass, and being where he should be.  He would be good with a inaccurate QB with a big arm.   The Eagles need a backup D Smith, and Dotson is that.   Putting Dotson on the field is putting a lesser weapon on the field,  but maybe a more competent route runner in the D Smith category.   Just let him copy D Smith and when the Eagles need lesser D Smith,  he'll be ready.

12 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

I'm probably going to be typing lots of words on this for some hours.

Picketts measurables - ras wise - were in the 9s, and Dotsons were in the 6s.   I would have ruled Dotson out as a first rounder based on his measurables.     With a first, I'd want top measurables and top performance.

I don't think the Eagles needed anything at WR.  The only thing they really needed was a backup to D Smith could could run routes well, and they say Dotson can do that.   There is no reason for Dotson to be on the field, really,  he should just be D Smith as well as he can,  to do what D Smith does, so that D Smith can come off the field and rest.  And,  if D Smith was off the field for a while,  Dotson would then get a lot of snaps.

at slot,   Britain Covey is quicker,  substantially,  much better 3 cone,  better 10 split, not as good long speed.   Parris Campbell is faster,  John Ross is faster,   Johnny Wilson is bigger.    Runs routes best is where Dotson is supposed to be good, as well as good hands, and college highlights have a lot of going and finding the long pass, and being where he should be.  He would be good with a inaccurate QB with a big arm.   The Eagles need a backup D Smith, and Dotson is that.   Putting Dotson on the field is putting a lesser weapon on the field,  but maybe a more competent route runner in the D Smith category.   Just let him copy D Smith and when the Eagles need lesser D Smith,  he'll be ready.

I don't think Ross and Campbell are making this team now. 

here's a ras compare Parris Campbell v Jahan Dotson.   I'm more interested in seeing Parris Campbell than Jahan Dotson,  but we can guess that Dotson is the more polished receiver, good route runner, good hands, hopefully a not as good or almost as good D Smith clone  and Campbell is more of the fast versatile weapon.  

7 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I don't think Ross and Campbell are making this team now. 

Maybe.

I think keep one,  and A Smith should be Phantom IR.

Both Campbell and Ross were fast at one point,  Campbell had great numbers across the board,  and Dotson really didn't.  his best number was 4.33.

What he brings over Campbell (we think) is better route running and maybe better hands?  Because Campbell should be bringing - faster, stronger, more agile.  

Dotson is D Smith's backup.  The Eagles, I think, might have thought that one of the weapony, versatile, fast, quick guys might emerge as a great choice to be the lead singer in the D Smith cover band, and it hasn't looked that way.   Dotson can start doing the D Smith covers.   Would be good for both D Smith and AJ Brown to not be on the field 90% of the time.    The 6th position shouldn't go to Dotson.  That should be a committee spot,  either Covey (top quickness) or Campbell / Ross (top speed) should probably get the most snaps there.  If you want Dotson on the field with the stars,  D Smith can go to the slot.  He's been taking some snaps there apparently.   It is more clear that Covey, Campbell and Ross can do slot than they can do Z,  and Dotson should be Z backup,  because the Eagles need one.  And good route runner + good hands = D Smith.   Dotson will help the Eagles get the snaps of the top duo down to a more normal level.  They were #1 last year and it's not a particularly good stat to be a leader of.

5 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Dotsons yards per route ran is pretty bad fwiw. Maybe it’s just the way they used him idk, but it’s bad. 

Hmmm, so you’re saying picking up the 5th year option isn’t a lock after all?

5 hours ago, greendestiny27 said:

Robinson is about to go off. Hate to say that but he is going to be a force this year. Really like his game.

I like Robinson but I don’t see year #3 being the year he goes off when they just brought in Ekeler. He was the supposed bell cow last year and ceded a lot of work to Gibson. We’ll see. 

WR PFFs 2024 Preseason after game 2

Joseph Ngata - 73.2
Austin Watkins - 65.1
Britain Covey - 64.4
John Ross - 63.0
Johnny Wilson - 61.1
Ainias Smith - 58.6
Jacob Harris - 52.4
Jahan Dotson - 43.3

 

Here's Dotson in 2022.   Generally competent.  Notably good route running.  Some big catches.  There wasn't much in the way of yards after catch.  1 notable big yac play.  These are highlights so if there were drops or otherwise bad plays, they wouldn't be seen.  Good route running and good hands,  some great catches were there.  Note the announcers pointing out that the db covering Dotson,  at least a couple of times,  was a rookie or bad.
 

Compare Parris Campbell.  I didn't notice much in the way of gaining separation via moves or wiggle or generally great route running.  There were some good downfield catches.  Good tracking on an Ehlinger pass. But what you see a lot of is yards after catch.  A fairly easy catch and then a solid or big gain was fairly commonplace.  This is the 2022 season, his last with the Colts.   A couple of big runs with Parris as the jet sweeper guy or orbit motion guy.  

Interesting comparison because both 2 years ago.   Like D Smith,  Dotson is the routes and hands guy,  Campbell is a solid catcher and the more electric with the ball.   The stats show this - Dotsons yards after catch percentage is much smaller,  It looks like Parris Campbell's is about 40 % to like 10%.   The Eagles have D Smith - he does the routes and hands stuff, and Dotson looks like a solid backup there at the Z.

Parris Campbell (and Britain Covey and John Ross are the weapony slot backs who can give you bigger plays from shorter passes.  

6 hours ago, TEW said:

 

Now obviously Dotson may be a total flop, but just looking at this dispassionately from a math perspective it’s a massive, massive win.

The mark to beat is 8 games of Golden Tate.  High bar to clear.

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Posted this in the trade thread, but thought some in here might enjoy another view on the trade:

Let me give you another perspective — "expected value.” A third round pick has about a 25% chance to become a starter, and a rookie contract is 4 years long. So the "expected value” of a 3rd round pick is 1 year of a starting caliber player.

Well, Dotson has proven he can be a competent, if unspectacular, starter. And we have him locked up for 2 years on cheap rookie money, PLUS we have a team option for a 3rd season.

This is a spectacularly good trade just by looking at the math of it and what each team would project to get. We got DOUBLE the expected value of our third round pick, PLUS a team option on a third year, PLUS a 5th round pick.

And that’s not even using the "time value” of draft picks which is generally a full round lower for every year in the future. If you apply that discount, it’s even better.

As I analyze this trade from a purely statistical perspective, it might be one of the best deals Howie has ever done from a pure risk/reward perspective. Which is really saying something.

Now obviously Dotson may be a total flop, but just looking at this dispassionately from a math perspective it’s a massive, massive win.

Yup.

That's not even including the 5th round pick we got back.
Or the likely comp pick we'll get when he inevitably leaves in free agency. WRs get PAID in free agency, so if he plays even ok a 5th round comp pick is likely. Good, competent, young WRs don't hit free agency. He's going to get real money as long as he doesn't bomb. 

That's just good roster management.

14 hours ago, BDawk_ASamuel said:

Well, no excuses for Hurts this season at least. Wentz would have slaughtered an orphanage to have half this good of a core back in 2019/2020. 

Just have to hope Hurts finally gets the balls to throw the middle of the field. 

A new scheme, shinny new 3rd WR and Dallas at TE won't matter if he won't pull the trigger. He needs to stop focusing on one read(AJ) 80% of the pass snaps. 

Well Ross can start packing...I'm not sure i want to give up on Parris just yet. I'm keeping

Brown

D.Smith

Dotson

Covey

Wilson 

Campell

A. Smith goes to PS 

 

 

12 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Took the day to move my son into his new college dorm... and I hear that the Eagles traded for Jahan Dotson.  I know they gave up a 3rd... and got a 5th back.   So, the value is a little less than a 3rd.   But that's a hefty price.   He has 3 years of team control left on his contract though.   I wonder if Howie is thinking only short term... and going all in for a run this year.   Or, is he seeing him as more of a reclamation project that he hopes to flip for more in a year's time.   Or, would he consider moving one of Brown or Smith if Dotson hits here.

Personally, I am just looking at it as an 'all-in' type move for 2024 and 2025... and if anything more comes of it, it should be interesting.  

They had 9 picks in the 2025 draft.  They had 2 3rds.  One of which is from trading a 4th round pick to the Dolphins this year.  I am not the first to point this out but it's like they traded a 4th this year for Dotson and 2 7th round picks for a 5th.  

6 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

BVS is a better WR. 

32 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Just have to hope Hurts finally gets the balls to throw the middle of the field. 

A new scheme, shinny new 3rd WR and Dallas at TE won't matter if he won't pull the trigger. He needs to stop focusing on one read(AJ) 80% of the pass snaps. 

He threw more over the middle in 2022.  According to the ESPN article last season, part of the lack of throws was the scheme not Hurts. 

13 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

He threw more over the middle in 2022.  According to the ESPN article last season, part of the lack of throws was the scheme not Hurts. 

I’ve heard that Hurts was fairly effective this summer throwing slants to AJ - reading the blitz/finding the hot routes, using the whole field and getting the ball out quickly seems like the next logical step after last year’s setback. Howie has provided the roster… so the QB can play within the structure of the offense.

15 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Offense has been pretty much built to either throw the ball or hand it off to all of the weapons. He can do his runs but odds are someone will be open

Is this a real post?   The offense was built to either run or throw 

9 hours ago, paco said:

Samuel averaged 0.47 more targets per game than Dotson. I wouldn’t say that’s substantially more. 
 

McLauren was the clear #1. Dotson was penciled in as WR2 due to his draft status and to your point produced less than Samuel in every meaningful statistic. 

 

Samuel had 39 more targets. Point is that if Dotson had so many interceptions thrown while he was targeted then why did the other Redskin WRs who played with the same QBs and had more targets not have as many interceptions thrown when they were targeted?

The answer is that he probably has a bit of that Reagor/Quez in him where he isn't going to fight for thr ball like he should and will half ass it at times.  That certainly correlates with what fans on the Commanders sub have said about him and Brian Mitchell has hinted at.

8 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

I'm probably going to be typing lots of words on this for some hours.

Picketts measurables - ras wise - were in the 9s, and Dotsons were in the 6s.   I would have ruled Dotson out as a first rounder based on his measurables.     With a first, I'd want top measurables and top performance.

I don't think the Eagles needed anything at WR.  The only thing they really needed was a backup to D Smith could could run routes well, and they say Dotson can do that.   There is no reason for Dotson to be on the field, really,  he should just be D Smith as well as he can,  to do what D Smith does, so that D Smith can come off the field and rest.  And,  if D Smith was off the field for a while,  Dotson would then get a lot of snaps.

at slot,   Britain Covey is quicker,  substantially,  much better 3 cone,  better 10 split, not as good long speed.   Parris Campbell is faster,  John Ross is faster,   Johnny Wilson is bigger.    Runs routes best is where Dotson is supposed to be good, as well as good hands, and college highlights have a lot of going and finding the long pass, and being where he should be.  He would be good with a inaccurate QB with a big arm.   The Eagles need a backup D Smith, and Dotson is that.   Putting Dotson on the field is putting a lesser weapon on the field,  but maybe a more competent route runner in the D Smith category.   Just let him copy D Smith and when the Eagles need lesser D Smith,  he'll be ready.

RAS is overrated. What I really care about related to athleticism is position specific tools. I don't really care how much you bench as a corner, but I really care about what your 3-cone is. Short area quickness is what I really want to know about. Long speed matters, sure, but it matters a lot less. What are your hips like? Does the reactivity show up on your game?

I think certain attributes align well as tools to certain positions. To me, that stuff is a lot more important than RAS.