2 hours ago, RLC said:

I didn't watch a second of pre-season game #3, but the consensus is that it was an incredibly boring game.

There mere much better ways to spend a Saturday 

I might’ve been guilty for being too high on Ricks

46 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

Why would you give up on someone you knew was a bit of a developmental athletic freak one year into his 4-5 year rookie contract, when his D-Cord got fired, twice, for being inept? I swear, even the oldies here have been infected by the instant gratification mentality. Lol.

I'm looking at it from the earned it standpoint and who looks the part. There's a reason he played deep in to the last preseason game. The truth is, Patrick Johnson has looked better, Jalyx Hunt has shown more promise in 3 games than Smith has in his first 2 years and Julian Okwara more than looked the part by not only getting to the QB, but making a handful of tackles. 

If we're just judging by the preseason, Smith is the odd man out. That won't happen but if it did, I'd understand why. 

54 minutes ago, weko said:

He's way too small

maybe he needs to do bench presses?  his height and weight are not that different than Reddicks.   He's not way too small compared to other pass rushing OLBs like Reddick.

I'm not sure I like thinking like "well, you didn't do bench presses at the combine, so we're just going to assume those numbers will be great, and those great bench press numbers will make up for the fact that 238 pounds is light to be fighting with 300+ pound OL every play.  

I like the Nolan Smith pick.  The Nolan Smith pick was the consensus pick for the Eagles at 9 or whereever the pick was they used to get Carter.  I liked the pick then.  I'm seeing that Nolan Smith can use his speed to get a sack, he did that in the first preseason game.

I want the team to add the top combine guys,  the 10 Ras guys.  It wasn't hidden from me that 238 isn't the weight you want for the Defensive Line.  But I saw that his numbers were much much better at positions like CB and Safety and Linebacker.   And,  really,  I think Nolan Smith could be better if he was just running around in the backfield making tackles and covering, or basically doing Safety things.  

Nolan Smiths bench is a mystery but you know you want it to be good at DL against OLs.

Nolan Smiths 10 split and 40 times are absolutely great and you know those are great numbers, alongside 238 pounds and 41.5 vert for positions like Safety and Linebacker. 

Maybe the Eagles could put a Big DL at Defensive End.  And put another Big DL at Defensive End.  With one or 2 Defensive Tackles between them.   Let's say it's 3.  And those Defensive Ends actually are on the End of the Line.  Between the various DLs - Ends or Tackles - you have players who line up whereever, and rush or run blitz.    That could be Nolan Smith. 

Nolan Smith provides a physical mismatch against almost all,  but he doesn't necessarily win a pushing match against 300+ pound OLs.

Additionally,  the Eagles at this moment,  don't have a backup TE who can block, or a backup any skill position player who can block.   Nolan Smith should be able to run block in the 60s PFF or better, or he's physically good enough to do that.  Oh,  and our backup run blocking TE, (or one of them,  all the LBs have numbers that could work at blocking TE) has a 40 of 4.39 and a 10 split of 1.47 and a vert of 41.5 and a weight of 238 with a height of 6022.   Which are extremely weapony numbers for a backup run blocking TE that teams don't really want to think about.  Throw easy short pass to Nolan Smith in the backfield, and see if he can run by people or run over people.  He was a running back in high school.  Video of him running as tailback in the I formation.

Trey Lance threw 5 interceptions in the Cowboys preseason finale tonight. They will either have to give Dak $60M-$65M per year to keep him or they have no backup plan on their roster. 

30 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I'm looking at it from the earned it standpoint and who looks the part. There's a reason he played deep in to the last preseason game. The truth is, Patrick Johnson has looked better, Jalyx Hunt has shown more promise in 3 games than Smith has in his first 2 years and Julian Okwara more than looked the part by not only getting to the QB, but making a handful of tackles. 

If we're just judging by the preseason, Smith is the odd man out. That won't happen but if it did, I'd understand why. 

 

Patrick Johnson is no one but a bottom of the depth chart special teams player on the last year of his deal.  You don't give up on Smith in his second season for Patrick Johnson.  

51 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

yep. some deep ball coverage to brush off some cobwebs but he was nice against the run. Hes gonna be just fine.  And those plays are why, even though I think he might be a fine outside CB- its so much more exciting to see his skill set used in nickel. 

He might be a fine outside CB.  True.

He does have the skill set to do run defense.

But the Eagles seems to have a number of really fast LBs who probably could do that run defense and could also do the nickel coverage.  More likely the run defense.   Not to suggest that Cooper isn't on the field, but that he could be outside LB and a fast LB could be nickel, especially if their slot WR isn't extremely quick.     There are things that players like Nolan Smith can do that aren't just trying to push a 300+ pound guy.    The Eagles have a lot of great athletes that weigh in the general 230-240 range.  Until recently there weren't really any LBs who ran around 4.40.   Now there are a few, and the Eagles have a lot of them.

lol @ people giving up on Nolan Smith before he even plays a down in his 2nd season.

 

Rewatch the game. He wasn't awful like some want you to believe. Many of the plays went away from him. He did have a few nice pass rush snaps including the INT by McCollum that was called back (Smith's pressure forced a terrible throw (DeJean's illegal contact actually slowed the WR  otherwise that pass would have been even farther behind him)) and Smith also was right there on the Burks sack. 

Everybody knew Smith was raw as a pass rusher since that wasn't how he was used in Georgia. That's why getting him with the 30th pick is better than getting him with the 33rd pick or later in the 2nd round. That 5th year option may be a real bargain once he has honed his pass rush skills. 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

He’s talking about Nolan Smith 

ah.  

nevermind

I'm not sure how much of it is even his technique and polish. It may be, but it also may be that he's just not very strong. He seems to be completely engulfed whenever he engages with linemen. He can't move them and they completely move him. He has plenty of athleticism, but he may not have the strength. And I'm not even sure just getting in the gym can negate all of that, there's something to be said about raw power.

Maybe working on his technique can negate the need for some raw power, but seeing him get completely engulfed by lineman who aren't even good is concerning to say the least. Like, some of these linemen who've been getting the better of him in games and in camp, if you had any ability to push them off their feet and get them off balance, then you could use your athleticism to get by them. But it seems like every time he engages with any OL, it's game over. It feels like almost all of his sacks that have come so far have been where he just blows right past the OL without being touched or just barely being touched where they never actually engaged. But once an OL gets both paws on him it seems to be game set match virtually every time.

We'll see if that changes, we really have no choice, but is it fair to be concerned about him? It absolutely is.

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

he isn't a "super athletic player"   His combine  or pro day numbers weren't impressive.  He's versatile in that he was rb for a bit in college, seems to have had a start there, not just a weapony wr like Covey, in addition to Covey.   But Parris Campbell 4.31 40.  Jahan Dotson 4.43,  A Smith 4.55.  I think that A Smith has the resume of weapony guy, as opposed to good route runner guy - like Dotson or A Smith - but he doesn't have the great numbers.   His 6.84 3 cone is good though. And his best number 21 bench is definitely very good for WR. 

I would add that his stats today weren't of a super athletic player - 4 yards per target.  Parris Campbell is the super weapony guy, and his stats were 17 yards per target,  with good yards after catch.  The difference between 4.31 and 4.55.

I was talking about Nolan Smith. 

2 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

McCollum looked decent. DeJean up and down. Jobe, Ricks and McPhearson looked pretty bad. 

That's impossible. So many fans want to trade away a corner because we are so stacked in the secondary. 

8 hours ago, Iggles25 said:

Want Burks on this roster too.

There has to be weeds elsewhere that can be trimmed

I liked the burks signing in the FA period. I think he has a chance to be a solid LB. He’s not going to be a Pro Bowler but i do think he can be a solid LB and good special teams player. I joked a couple weeks back i forgot he signed here cause he was hurt and nothing about him throughout camp. That said not sure the eagles keep white, baun, dean, burks, vansumeren and trotter on the 53. 

9 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

The cost/benefit isn't worth it. The benefit is coming out in game 1 and looking sharper for the first half. The cost is potentially having your season be over before it even begins if Hurts gets knocked out for the year.

Any time you make a big decision in life you should ask yourself if you can live with the outcome before you make it. If they came out not as sharp in week 1 I think they can live with it. If they lost Hurts I don't think they could.

I love how every team acts if you get to week 1 healthy that you’re safe and you can’t get hurt. I laugh every year. There’s no real science behind it, it’s hope and false confidence—nothing more.

Watched the game:

QB:  Pickett looked better, a fumble, a missed block by a TE, offense kept shooting itself in the foot. McKee came down to earth.

RB: TP is a good runner, unfortunately the fumble emphasized his faults, fumbles, dropped passes, pass blocking. Which means he can only be used to run out the clock with a big lead. Nicholls isn't a good a runner, but looked comfortable as a receiver.

WR:  Campbell is heads and shoulders above the rest. Smith is playing better, but should make it to the PS.

TE:  Still looking for #3. Probably not on the roster right now

OL:  They were OK, McMahon had a couple nice blocks in space, look for them to "red-shirt" him. Kinnard making a good argument to make the team.

DL:  Booker making a strong case for keeping 6 DL. Hall and Mustipher to the PS.

LB:  VanSumeran looked very good, last year he was raw but athletic, now feels like he's figuring it out. B Smith lacks instincts, too bad, b/c he has size and speed. Burks looked solid for the most part, a little rust coming off an injury

CB:  Ricks and Jobe made this defense look like last season, neither should ever be more than a #4. McPhearson was even worse.

S:  McCollum making a strong push to make the roster, Sam not doing enough to make the PS.

 

54 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Watched the game:

QB:  Pickett looked better, a fumble, a missed block by a TE, offense kept shooting itself in the foot. McKee came down to earth.

RB: TP is a good runner, unfortunately the fumble emphasized his faults, fumbles, dropped passes, pass blocking. Which means he can only be used to run out the clock with a big lead. Nicholls isn't a good a runner, but looked comfortable as a receiver.

WR:  Campbell is heads and shoulders above the rest. Smith is playing better, but should make it to the PS.

TE:  Still looking for #3. Probably not on the roster right now

OL:  They were OK, McMahon had a couple nice blocks in space, look for them to "red-shirt" him. Kinnard making a good argument to make the team.

DL:  Booker making a strong case for keeping 6 DL. Hall and Mustipher to the PS.

LB:  VanSumeran looked very good, last year he was raw but athletic, now feels like he's figuring it out. B Smith lacks instincts, too bad, b/c he has size and speed. Burks looked solid for the most part, a little rust coming off an injury

CB:  Ricks and Jobe made this defense look like last season, neither should ever be more than a #4. McPhearson was even worse.

S:  McCollum making a strong push to make the roster, Sam not doing enough to make the PS.

 

Pretty spot on with one big omission being Nolan not making an impact against their 2nd/3rd team offense.

Cooper was up and down as excepted as he ramps up.

Arguably looking for a TE2 still as Calcaterra is more likely an reliable 3rd option there given his injury history.

Campbell and Burks both played well coming back off injuries compared to the rest of the guys - interested to see what will happen with them.

 

 

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

lol @ people giving up on Nolan Smith before he even plays a down in his 2nd season.

 

Rewatch the game. He wasn't awful like some want you to believe. Many of the plays went away from him. He did have a few nice pass rush snaps including the INT by McCollum that was called back (Smith's pressure forced a terrible throw (DeJean's illegal contact actually slowed the WR  otherwise that pass would have been even farther behind him)) and Smith also was right there on the Burks sack. 

Everybody knew Smith was raw as a pass rusher since that wasn't how he was used in Georgia. That's why getting him with the 30th pick is better than getting him with the 33rd pick or later in the 2nd round. That 5th year option may be a real bargain once he has honed his pass rush skills. 

Just rewatched every play of his and man it wasn’t petty. He was going against 2nd/3rd team guards who slid out to play tackle and didn’t make an impact. Unfortunately for him a RB didn’t chip him inside for a clear lane to the QB and he didn’t have the speed to circle around a tackle (though to his credit he came kind of close to getting to the QBs arm at one point). He looked maybe even worse than last year in this game.

I don’t see a world where Howie doesn’t address edge by the trade deadline if he doesn’t step up. I hope I’m dead wrong and he shows out but not holding my breath.

6 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

maybe he needs to do bench presses?  his height and weight are not that different than Reddicks.   He's not way too small compared to other pass rushing OLBs like Reddick.

I'm not sure I like thinking like "well, you didn't do bench presses at the combine, so we're just going to assume those numbers will be great, and those great bench press numbers will make up for the fact that 238 pounds is light to be fighting with 300+ pound OL every play.  

I like the Nolan Smith pick.  The Nolan Smith pick was the consensus pick for the Eagles at 9 or whereever the pick was they used to get Carter.  I liked the pick then.  I'm seeing that Nolan Smith can use his speed to get a sack, he did that in the first preseason game.

I want the team to add the top combine guys,  the 10 Ras guys.  It wasn't hidden from me that 238 isn't the weight you want for the Defensive Line.  But I saw that his numbers were much much better at positions like CB and Safety and Linebacker.   And,  really,  I think Nolan Smith could be better if he was just running around in the backfield making tackles and covering, or basically doing Safety things.  

Nolan Smiths bench is a mystery but you know you want it to be good at DL against OLs.

Nolan Smiths 10 split and 40 times are absolutely great and you know those are great numbers, alongside 238 pounds and 41.5 vert for positions like Safety and Linebacker. 

Maybe the Eagles could put a Big DL at Defensive End.  And put another Big DL at Defensive End.  With one or 2 Defensive Tackles between them.   Let's say it's 3.  And those Defensive Ends actually are on the End of the Line.  Between the various DLs - Ends or Tackles - you have players who line up whereever, and rush or run blitz.    That could be Nolan Smith. 

Nolan Smith provides a physical mismatch against almost all,  but he doesn't necessarily win a pushing match against 300+ pound OLs.

Additionally,  the Eagles at this moment,  don't have a backup TE who can block, or a backup any skill position player who can block.   Nolan Smith should be able to run block in the 60s PFF or better, or he's physically good enough to do that.  Oh,  and our backup run blocking TE, (or one of them,  all the LBs have numbers that could work at blocking TE) has a 40 of 4.39 and a 10 split of 1.47 and a vert of 41.5 and a weight of 238 with a height of 6022.   Which are extremely weapony numbers for a backup run blocking TE that teams don't really want to think about.  Throw easy short pass to Nolan Smith in the backfield, and see if he can run by people or run over people.  He was a running back in high school.  Video of him running as tailback in the I formation.

Nice essay. Trying to get a PhD in Tate? 

2 hours ago, Texas Eagle said:

Just rewatched every play of his and man it wasn’t petty. He was going against 2nd/3rd team guards who slid out to play tackle and didn’t make an impact. Unfortunately for him a RB didn’t chip him inside for a clear lane to the QB and he didn’t have the speed to circle around a tackle (though to his credit he came kind of close to getting to the QBs arm at one point). He looked maybe even worse than last year in this game.

I don’t see a world where Howie doesn’t address edge by the trade deadline if he doesn’t step up. I hope I’m dead wrong and he shows out but not holding my breath.

Smith doesn't have it.  He is no different than last year. No pass rush moves.  Jeremiah Washburn is the DE coach and Smith is his responsibility.  Is Washburn incapable of teaching Smith pass rush moves or is Smith incapable of learning them?  Just on merit Smith is behind Hunt, Johnson and Okwara.  Maybe even Lewis.  A couple of years from now Smith will be like Okwara, hunting around the NFL for a bottom of the roster job.

McPherson can just walk his #27 jersey over to Mitchell...he's gone.

And thus concludes a training camp and preseason in which no one outside of the coaches and team learned anything about the team.

The thing about Nolan Smith is he has one pass rush move, but he doesn’t play to his speed and doesn’t have the arm length to make the outside speed rush work well. If he doesn’t learn an inside counter, he’s unplayable. 

8 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Patrick Johnson is no one but a bottom of the depth chart special teams player on the last year of his deal.  You don't give up on Smith in his second season for Patrick Johnson.  

And Nolan Smith is a 1st round pick who might be a ST player and part time pass rush specialist. 

7 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I liked the burks signing in the FA period. I think he has a chance to be a solid LB. He’s not going to be a Pro Bowler but i do think he can be a solid LB and good special teams player. I joked a couple weeks back i forgot he signed here cause he was hurt and nothing about him throughout camp. That said not sure the eagles keep white, baun, dean, burks, vansumeren and trotter on the 53. 

I wonder if White or Baun could be surprise players that are moved. Probably no chance but I'm anticipating at least one where did that come from move.

8 hours ago, brkmsn said:

lol @ people giving up on Nolan Smith before he even plays a down in his 2nd season.

 

Rewatch the game. He wasn't awful like some want you to believe. Many of the plays went away from him. He did have a few nice pass rush snaps including the INT by McCollum that was called back (Smith's pressure forced a terrible throw (DeJean's illegal contact actually slowed the WR  otherwise that pass would have been even farther behind him)) and Smith also was right there on the Burks sack. 

Everybody knew Smith was raw as a pass rusher since that wasn't how he was used in Georgia. That's why getting him with the 30th pick is better than getting him with the 33rd pick or later in the 2nd round. That 5th year option may be a real bargain once he has honed his pass rush skills. 

The myth of the 5th year…

if he develops you have to pay him since its such a premium position. Its like a qb