4 minutes ago, judunno said:

Covey is way better than Mahe was stop. First things first is securing the ball for the ridiculously high powered offense. I'd trust Covey to do that and then some more than the rookies.

Over 5 years as the Eagles PR, Mahe averaged 9 YPR. His best year was in 2005 when he averaged 12.9 YPR. I'm far from a Reno Mahe fan, but he was as solid as they come as a PR. Not a gamebreaker, but solid. 

Just now, bpac55 said:

Over 5 years as the Eagles PR, Mahe averaged 9 YPR. His best year was in 2005 when he averaged 12.9 YPR. I'm far from a Reno Mahe fan, but he was as solid as they come as a PR. Not a gamebreaker, but solid. 

Covey is way better than Mahe. Not even close. Mahe was extremely mid and slow.

Just now, bpac55 said:

I'm not taking anything away from Covey. If there's a way, you could even go back to when he was signed as an UDFA and see how excited I was about him. However, as I posted about it a week or so ago and maybe I put way too much thought in to it, I think position flexibility is extremely important. If you can save a roster spot with DeJean or Smith as your PR, it allows you to stash a project on the roster, or go heavy at a certain position. 

If Covey gave you anything on offense, I wouldn't be as adamant at replacing him at PR, but the fact of the matter is he doesn't. As of today, he's at the bottom looking up at WR. 

When it comes down to WR5. Would you rather cut a guy who has rare size, speed traits in Johnny Wilson with the hopes he develops just to keep Covey, who doesn't even play WR? Or would you keep Wilson knowing that you drafted a few guys who excel at PR and are also going to contribute on both sides of the ball?

Yes, right now I would keep Covey over a developmental WR prospect. 

The problem you eventually face in this league is that versatility is a two-edged sword. Once you become extremely valuable at a certain position, being used at another becomes a risk. That's why we used Mahe (a crap PR) when we already had Westbrook and Lito on the team. PR is an actual position on the team and you help the team so much more when the guy is competent and productive. Covey averaged 14.4 yards per return last year without ever taking one to the house. I think it's strange that some fans don't realize how productive Covey currently is. Greg Ward, who was considered sure handed had a career average of just 5.7 yards per return. DJax has a career average of 9.4. 

9 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Yes, right now I would keep Covey over a developmental WR prospect. 

The problem you eventually face in this league is that versatility is a two-edged sword. Once you become extremely valuable at a certain position, being used at another becomes a risk. That's why we used Mahe (a crap PR) when we already had Westbrook and Lito on the team. PR is an actual position on the team and you help the team so much more when the guy is competent and productive. Covey averaged 14.4 yards per return last year without ever taking one to the house. I think it's strange that some fans don't realize how productive Covey currently is. Greg Ward, who was considered sure handed had a career average of just 5.7 yards per return. DJax has a career average of 9.4. 

Jackson was a far better punt returner in his first few years. His last 2 or 3 years doing it, his head was too big for his own good. He often got caught running backwards or sideways for a loss or minimal gain. He really wasnt a good returner at all in those years, just lived on his reputation from when he used to be more disciplined and effective. He probably decreased his average quite a bit from what it was, and could have been.

9 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Yes, right now I would keep Covey over a developmental WR prospect. 

The problem you eventually face in this league is that versatility is a two-edged sword. Once you become extremely valuable at a certain position, being used at another becomes a risk. That's why we used Mahe (a crap PR) when we already had Westbrook and Lito on the team. PR is an actual position on the team and you help the team so much more when the guy is competent and productive. Covey averaged 14.4 yards per return last year without ever taking one to the house. I think it's strange that some fans don't realize how productive Covey currently is. Greg Ward, who was considered sure handed had a career average of just 5.7 yards per return. DJax has a career average of 9.4. 

Facts. He's a top 5 Punt returner by avg and led the league in yards. He became a weapon back there last year consistently. He takes one back for a TD and suddenly everyone would shut up. At least for this year while the rookies get their footing he's a no brainer to keep back there given his experience, production and reliability. Comparing him to slow poke Mahe is an insult.

12 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

 

I generally can't get through podcasts but I might have to watch this one. Love that Katt Williams clip at the end.

50 minutes ago, judunno said:

Covey is way better than Mahe was stop.

Yeah. People are talking crazy. 

what an idiot...

Keep in mind, Covey isn’t ultra conservative like a lot of punt returners when it comes to decision making. He’s willing to take a short return to gain a couple of extra yards while a lot of others protect their stats with fair catches. 

People are way too eager to replace him. 

26 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I generally can't get through podcasts but I might have to watch this one. Love that Katt Williams clip at the end.

Who gives a crap about ancient history? I'm more concerned with 2024. Here, let me spare you the time it takes to watch the pod cast- Chip Kelly was a **** bag. You're welcome.

Just now, Talonblood said:

Who gives a crap about ancient history? I'm more concerned with 2024. Here, let me spare you the time it takes to watch the pod cast- Chip Kelly was a **** bag. You're welcome.

Thanks man! 

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Keep in mind, Covey isn’t ultra conservative like a lot of punt returners when it comes to decision making.

This is true, he wasn't anywhere near DC in January of '21.

10 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

what an idiot...

You're adorable when you pretend to know things.

Covey is very different from Mahe as a returner.    Mahe was ultra-reliable.   He took what was given and got down.   He made nice catches on short punts to save hidden yardage.   But, he was never a threat to break a punt for a TD.   Covey has a little wiggle, and will try to get a return, even in situations where that may not be the best option.   But, reserving a roster spot this year for a guy who is a PR only is a luxury this team may not be able to afford.   That's not to say he'll automatically be a cut, but it means he needs to offer something more than just PR to stick.  He's got a lot more competition this year for that job and if that's his only contribution, he's unlikely to make the team.    

 

And contrary to what some seem to think, that's not a bad thing.  It means that the talent level of this roster continues to rise and that we have options we didn't have recently.

1 hour ago, judunno said:

Covey is way better than Mahe. Not even close. Mahe was extremely mid and slow.

Even if Covey is better it's by a small fraction. He's done nothing to say he's way better than Mahe...and again, I was not a Mahe fan. 

Yes, 14.4 is better than 12.8 when comparing their best season averages. Mahe had a long of 44 compared to Covey's long of 54 so they are pretty even when it comes to their biggest plays. Neither has taken one to the house. 

They really aren't that far apart when it comes to productivity. 

Career					55	1	95	851	0	44	9.0	35	749	0	64	21.4
2003	23	PHI	RB	34	2	0	6	55	0	17	9.2			0			60	0
2004	24	PHI	RB	34	11	0	19	109	0	25	5.7	3	44	0	22	14.7	367	2
2005	25	PHI	RB	34	15	0	21	269	0	44	12.8	1	19	0	19	19.0	443	1
2006	26	PHI	RB	34	12	1	18	169	0	23	9.4	30	667	0	64	22.2	877	0
2007	27	PHI	RB	25	15	0	31	249	0	32	8.0	1	19	0	19	19.0	279	0

 

Career					33		62	725	0	54	11.7	11	236	0	30	21.5	1003	0
2022	25	PHI	WR	18	17	0	33	308	0	27	9.3	10	206	0	26	20.6	514	0
2023	26	PHI	WR	18	16	0	29	417	0	54	14.4	1	30	0	30	30.0	489	0

20 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

This is true, he wasn't anywhere near DC in January of '21.

I knew when I said ultra conservative that there would be some kind of joke. 

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Covey is very different from Mahe as a returner.    Mahe was ultra-reliable.   He took what was given and got down.   He made nice catches on short punts to save hidden yardage.   But, he was never a threat to break a punt for a TD.   Covey has a little wiggle, and will try to get a return, even in situations where that may not be the best option.   But, reserving a roster spot this year for a guy who is a PR only is a luxury this team may not be able to afford.   That's not to say he'll automatically be a cut, but it means he needs to offer something more than just PR to stick.  He's got a lot more competition this year for that job and if that's his only contribution, he's unlikely to make the team.    

 

And contrary to what some seem to think, that's not a bad thing.  It means that the talent level of this roster continues to rise and that we have options we didn't have recently.

That might be true if he was just a returner,  and just an average one

 But I don't think it holds true being that he's one of the best returners in the league. 

There's value there.  Even if it's not on our roster,  you can get some kind of draft pick out of that. 

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Even if Covey is better it's by a small fraction. He's done nothing to say he's way better than Mahe...and again, I was not a Mahe fan. 

Yes, 14.4 is better than 12.8 when comparing their best season averages. Mahe had a long of 44 compared to Covey's long of 54 so they are pretty even when it comes to their biggest plays. Neither has taken one to the house. 

They really aren't that far apart when it comes to productivity. 

Career					55	1	95	851	0	44	9.0	35	749	0	64	21.4
2003	23	PHI	RB	34	2	0	6	55	0	17	9.2			0			60	0
2004	24	PHI	RB	34	11	0	19	109	0	25	5.7	3	44	0	22	14.7	367	2
2005	25	PHI	RB	34	15	0	21	269	0	44	12.8	1	19	0	19	19.0	443	1
2006	26	PHI	RB	34	12	1	18	169	0	23	9.4	30	667	0	64	22.2	877	0
2007	27	PHI	RB	25	15	0	31	249	0	32	8.0	1	19	0	19	19.0	279	0

 

Career					33		62	725	0	54	11.7	11	236	0	30	21.5	1003	0
2022	25	PHI	WR	18	17	0	33	308	0	27	9.3	10	206	0	26	20.6	514	0
2023	26	PHI	WR	18	16	0	29	417	0	54	14.4	1	30	0	30	30.0	489	0

Thanks for this. Definitely clears things up. 

Why the fighting over Covey?

Hes definitely not as secure in catching the ball as Mahe but is definitely a better pure returner.  I’d still say he’s secure though.  Overall, I think it should be easy to call him better than Mahe.

You may not like his usage on offense and you may or may not be right if you think he could/should offer something there…but the bottom line is that he does not contribute on offense (or defense, of course).  So that is a strike against him.  
 

I think these are pretty self evident.

I will also make a completely unsubstantiated and nearly unprovable assumption that Mahe probably got much better ST blocking than what the current group provides Covey.

11.7 yards per return seem significantly better than 9.0, but I’m not a math guy. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Yes, right now I would keep Covey over a developmental WR prospect. 

The problem you eventually face in this league is that versatility is a two-edged sword. Once you become extremely valuable at a certain position, being used at another becomes a risk. That's why we used Mahe (a crap PR) when we already had Westbrook and Lito on the team. PR is an actual position on the team and you help the team so much more when the guy is competent and productive. Covey averaged 14.4 yards per return last year without ever taking one to the house. I think it's strange that some fans don't realize how productive Covey currently is. Greg Ward, who was considered sure handed had a career average of just 5.7 yards per return. DJax has a career average of 9.4. 

The thing is, they now have multiple players who offer that flexibility. I don't foresee Cooper DeJean as the Eagles PR for the next decade...but as a rookie, when he isn't a starter, 100% he could be the Eagles starting PR. 

Ainias Smith, a 3rd or 4th WR who is going to play on offense. No reason he can't be the PR either. Look at a few WR3 and PR numbers. 

Braxton Berrios. WR3 for Miami.  27 catches for 238 yards and 1 TD. 23 PR for 235 yards at 10.2 YPR. 

Kalif Raymond. WR3 for Detroit. 35 catches for 489 yards, 1 TD. 29 PR for 331 yards, 11.4 YPR.

The point being is that they have players on the roster who can do multiple things rather than just 1 thing. Covey, for as good as he is, can be replaced by one of the young guys and open up a roster spot that might be needed.

Ainias Smith can be a worse returner than Covey, but still make the roster over him because he can actually do something on offense. Covey has to be a +++ returner given the lack of wide receiver skills. 

40 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Keep in mind, Covey isn’t ultra conservative like a lot of punt returners when it comes to decision making. He’s willing to take a short return to gain a couple of extra yards while a lot of others protect their stats with fair catches. 

People are way too eager to replace him. 

He doesn't "look like a football player".