1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

A lot of rotation, but:

 

DT -- Carter, Davis

DE -- Sweat, Huff

LB -- White, Dean

CB -- Slay, Mitchell

NCB -- DeJean

S -- CJGJ, Blankenship

So is Nolan Smith just an outsider? I feel like he should be starting over Huff 

7 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So is Nolan Smith just an outsider? I feel like he should be starting over Huff 

Huff got $34M in guaranteed money.  He's starting.  

Nolan Smith played 16% of the snaps last season; he'll have to find a way to take some of Josh Sweat's snaps, who had 71%.  Sweat is $9.5M guaranteed but UFA after the season.  I'm sure the Eagles would love for Nolan Smith to take his job moving forward, but Smith will have to earn it.

12 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So is Nolan Smith just an outsider? I feel like he should be starting over Huff 

 

Huff is one of the highest paid players on defense.  If you anticipate him winning starting job his 2nd year then I'd say the chances are better it's won over Sweat who is in his final year here.  

29 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So is Nolan Smith just an outsider? I feel like he should be starting over Huff 

 

17 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Huff got $34M in guaranteed money.  He's starting.  

Nolan Smith played 16% of the snaps last season; he'll have to find a way to take some of Josh Sweat's snaps, who had 71%.  Sweat is $9.5M guaranteed but UFA after the season.  I'm sure the Eagles would love for Nolan Smith to take his job moving forward, but Smith will have to earn it.

Absolutely he has to earn it. Odd as it may sound to say about a first round draft choice, he was drafted as a project.

I see him as a smaller faster Brandon Graham. If he can put 20 pounds in that body without losing speed ans quickness, we could have something.

Live coverage of Jared Goff securing the bag

1 hour ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So is Nolan Smith just an outsider? I feel like he should be starting over Huff 

Are you on crack? It would be better if you were on crack

8 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

.  This isn't hard to prove at all.    Look at the way the league has completely and totally changed how they view the RB position.   They aren't highly paid.  They aren't highly drafted.  And the reason is quite simple, because they are looked at as expendable parts that need to be replaced about every 4 to 5 years or sooner.  When they get beat up, they get less effective as runners.  Teams don't want to invest heavily in that position anymore.

A couple simple syllogisms for you:

Syllogism 1: 
Premise 1:  Football players whose primary job is to run the ball (RBs) wear down more quickly than ones who do not (WRs). 
Premise 2: NFL teams don't want to commit long term big money to players who are more likely to wear down before their contract runs out.

Conclusion: NFL teams won't pay RBs like they pay WRs.
Evidence:  RBs have much shorter careers and are much lower paid than WRs.   18 WRs are making more than $20M/yr average salary... only 4 RBs are making more than $10M/yr.  And the highest paid WR is making nearly DOUBLE annually what the highest RB is making.

 

Syllogism 2:
Same Premise 1: Football players whose primary job is to run the ball (RBs) wear down more quickly than ones who do not (WRs). 
Premise 2:  QBs are football players.

Conclusion:  The more a QB is asked to run the ball, the more wear and tear on his body and the more quickly he becomes less effective doing it.

Therefore, if you use your QB like a RB, that system is unsustainable.   You said it yourself in your previous post... Hurts was NOT the threat to run that we saw the previous year.   And it wasn't all about him protecting himself.  Not at all.   That's just not the reality of what we saw from him.  Even when he did run, he didn't look as fast, nor as explosive running.   Hence, the unsustainability being referenced.   

 

QED

 

To address your point about how NFL teams view it with their investment in the QB position.  OF COURSE!  

Syllogism 3:
Premise 1: A QB asked to run more and wears down more quickly and becomes less effective...  (see Syllogism 2...)
Same as Syllogism 1, Premise 2: NFL teams don't want to commit long term big money to players more likely to wear down before their contract runs out.

Conclusion:  NFL teams will not ask their QBs to run more and wear down given the investment they've made in their QB.

 

It appears the Eagles' brass understands that, and they went out and brought in an OC that doesn't rely on the QB to run the ball to have an effective offense.  And they brought in a better RB that they can use and abuse, rather than using their QB in that way.  Ironically, a lot of folks around here thought the Eagles overpaid for Barkley, even though his average salary per year is less than HALF of the investment in AJ Brown, which was a contract that virtually no one complained about even in the slightest.  

 

I would love to see a counter example, to this proof.  Just one.   To date, the closest thing is Lamar Jackson.  He's been a roller coaster of a career already, and he's only 26 years old.   Before that was Cam Newton, and he was fried before turning 29.   If a team chooses to go this route, then the QB position becomes like the RB position and you will burn and churn through QBs just like teams do with RBs.  The very definition of 'unsustainable', at least from the QB position.   There's just not enough quality QBs for it to work like it does with RBs.  But, maybe that's the only way for the QB contract numbers to come back down to sanity.

We're not talking about 1-dimensional QBs. A dual-threat QB is much harder to defend than one that can only run or only pass. Perhaps you can list a few dual-threat QBs that lost their jobs because their running was no longer effective. Elway was still making plays with his feet in his final season. Steve Young too. It seems to me you must be concluding that Cam Newton's running wore him out as a passer . My opinion of Newton is he just failed to keep improving as a passer. Did he put in the work like Brady to keep getting better or did he expect his arrival in the NFL to sustain a long career? Obviously Vick (pre-Dungy) thought his abilities were enough and didn't put in the work. But when he tried to turn his life around he did the work and finally improved as a passer. Show me examples of Newton putting in the work to become a better passer each season. Newton's career didn't fizzle out because he couldn't physically perform, it fizzled out because of the mental aspects. 

The way I see it, saying that allowing a dual-threat QB to be a dual threat QB is unsustainable is the same as when they used to say, " a black QB will never win a Super Bowl." Before it ever happened, all the "evidence" supported the claim. But there weren't a lot of black QBs that teams had built around in those days. So there were less opportunities to prove the naysayers wrong. NFL history is filled with white QBs that never won a Super Bowl. Several are in the HOF (Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, etc...) Now, in today's NFL, there are a lot more teams that have talented black QBs and it's no longer uncommon to see one hoisting a Lombardi trophy at the end of the year. In that way, I feel the unsustainable label put on dual-threat QBs is just based on old data where dual-threat QBs were rare. They are becoming extremely common now. It's very premature to say they are all doomed to have short careers. It's the way the NFL game is evolving. Some of you just prefer the old school pocket passer and refuse to believe anything positive can come from a player that doesn't fit that profile. 

Jackie Chan is 70 years old and still doing a lot of his own stunts. Tom Cruise is 61 and still doing his own stunts. Most people would claim actor/stuntman for action movies is unsustainable, but there are two old farts right there proving the doubters wrong. 

As for Hurts, the only thing about his running that was off in 2023 was how often he gave himself up  and there is a lot of film of that before the Miami game where he got hit on his knee in the pocket. 

The difference between you and I is that you would prefer to force Hurts to be just a passer and I would prefer Hurts to be Jalen Hurts. 

Brady with the nonchalant dig at Dak

1 hour ago, just relax said:

 

Absolutely he has to earn it. Odd as it may sound to say about a first round draft choice, he was drafted as a project.

I see him as a smaller faster Brandon Graham. If he can put 20 pounds in that body without losing speed ans quickness, we could have something.

I don't see defense as having "starters" like the OL, in fact, when you have to play guys 800+ snaps, that's a detriment in your front seven.

Rather you have maybe a half dozen packages, and players have roles in some or all, depending on their talent package and ability to master the defense.

Hunt and Smith have the athleticism to drop into coverage, maybe Baun as well. Don't know about Okwara. Burks might move outside at times.

Sweat and Huff are rush ends, whether you call them DEs or OLBs.

Davis and Tuipulotu are the NTs, Tuipulotu will have to convince Howie he doesn't need to bring in a veteran NT.

Carter, Ojoma, Hall and Booker have the length for 3-4 DE, Williams is more of a 4-3 DT, but can compensate for short arms with quickness at 3-4 DE.

Carter, Williams and Graham are the best 2-5 pass rushing DTs.

If Brady doesn't compare Watson to Kraft due to their massage schedule, then what's the point of having him on the broadcast?

1 hour ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Are you on crack? It would be better if you were on crack

I wish donkey lips

#freeshocker 

3 hours ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So is Nolan Smith just an outsider? I feel like he should be starting over Huff 

Yeah - me too, but training camp and pre season may decide that one. 

In no way can I blame the collapse of the starting pitching on Garrett Stubbs... but...   the Phillies desperately need to upgrade their backup catcher.   If Stubbs was a great receiver behind the plate, or was great with the pitching staff, you could put up with his pathetic bat.   Meanwhile, if he was a threat with a bat, you could put up with his mediocre skills as a game caller/receiver...   but, when you combine his inability with a bat, with his mediocre abilities with the pitching staff, besides being a 'fun guy' to have around, what does he bring to this team?  

 

Gotta hope that the Phillies can get JT back soon and that he's not going to miss a lot of time, but I can't remember the Phillies having a backup catcher that I was more non-plussed by.  How I long for Chris Coste!  

Crazy series of events.

6 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Why would anyone want to give Johnson or Mailata the ball to give defenders the opportunity to crash in on their knees? 

I don't even need stats to know we are already one of the better if not the best short yardage teams in the NFL. You don't use gimmicks to fix something that's not even close to broken.

1) I haven't seen proof that OL playing skill positions is dangerous to them.  A lot of people say it, though, because it's their strongest argument.   I would argue that putting a 364 pounder like Becton out there,  the Relative Injury Quotient - RIQ - would be in the favor of the Eagles.   A 364 pound Becton who is also pretty fast against their middle linebacker is going to favor Becton.   The MLB is more likely to get hurt.

2) Most NFL teams put big players on the field in short yardage situations.  It's often called "The Jumbo Package"  and extra big players,  OL or DL are put on the field in those situations.   The Eagles went a different way and designed either a new way to block, or used a rare way to block,  and it works extremely well for 1 or maybe 2 yards.  However,  that play is quite physically taxing on the players, especially the OL.   A quote somewhere from Kelce where he says something like "I hate my life" or something before the play.  the RIQ on that play doesn't really favor the Eagles,  if they're not digging that play.  

3) Not only "short yardage" but also "4th Q running out the clock".   The Eagles were good at short yardage with the push.  But the Eagles were not good at 4th Q running out the clock.   The Eagles tweaked some things that should improve the 4th Q run game.   Most importantly,  Barkley is better than Swift and is also big. At the position of run blocking TE, Uzomah is better than Stoll, and much bigger.   So,  I'm not saying that the 2024 Eagles are going to have the same problem as the 2023 Eagles did.   But I'd want to see Becton out there as a 6th OL, versatile player who theoretically could play anywhere at multiple skill positions.   I haven't seen any proof, only theories,  that playing TE or FB is unusually harmful to OL.   Becton,  as swing tackle,  can also kick Lane or Mailata into positions where they can use their special skills.   Lane can throw TD passes.  Mailata can do rugby stuff.  Extra harm to OL from playing not OL is unproven.   More likely it's the extra size on the offense that causes extra harm to their defense. 

Wow, Clemens.

Attaboy, Stott.

Phils come back to win 5-4. 

41 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

1) I haven't seen proof that OL playing skill positions is dangerous to them.  A lot of people say it, though, because it's their strongest argument.   I would argue that putting a 364 pounder like Becton out there,  the Relative Injury Quotient - RIQ - would be in the favor of the Eagles.   A 364 pound Becton who is also pretty fast against their middle linebacker is going to favor Becton.   The MLB is more likely to get hurt.

2) Most NFL teams put big players on the field in short yardage situations.  It's often called "The Jumbo Package"  and extra big players,  OL or DL are put on the field in those situations.   The Eagles went a different way and designed either a new way to block, or used a rare way to block,  and it works extremely well for 1 or maybe 2 yards.  However,  that play is quite physically taxing on the players, especially the OL.   A quote somewhere from Kelce where he says something like "I hate my life" or something before the play.  the RIQ on that play doesn't really favor the Eagles,  if they're not digging that play.  

3) Not only "short yardage" but also "4th Q running out the clock".   The Eagles were good at short yardage with the push.  But the Eagles were not good at 4th Q running out the clock.   The Eagles tweaked some things that should improve the 4th Q run game.   Most importantly,  Barkley is better than Swift and is also big. At the position of run blocking TE, Uzomah is better than Stoll, and much bigger.   So,  I'm not saying that the 2024 Eagles are going to have the same problem as the 2023 Eagles did.   But I'd want to see Becton out there as a 6th OL, versatile player who theoretically could play anywhere at multiple skill positions.   I haven't seen any proof, only theories,  that playing TE or FB is unusually harmful to OL.   Becton,  as swing tackle,  can also kick Lane or Mailata into positions where they can use their special skills.   Lane can throw TD passes.  Mailata can do rugby stuff.  Extra harm to OL from playing not OL is unproven.   More likely it's the extra size on the offense that causes extra harm to their defense. 

1) Why haven’t you seen proof of that? Because teams don’t do it for that reason. 

1b) 6’8” 365lb Jordan Mailata was hurt on a play by 6’2” 240lb LB Jaylon Smith. They don’t just run at each other head on.

2) your referencing Kelce on the tush push. That has nothing to do with anything in regards to Johnson or Mailata running the ball. No Eagles player has even been hurt on the tush push as far as I can remember and they run it multiple times each game. "RIQ doesn’t favor the Eagles on that play” makes absolutely no sense.

3) "Running out the clock” so let’s put important star players out there to do the same thing a 3rd/4th string RB can do with a lead. Brilliant. 

"Lane can throw TD passes”. Hes f’ing 34 and hasn’t thrown a pass in any real game since high school almost half his life span ago. Yea, I’m sure he’ll just pick up right where he left off in the red zone where it’s one of the hardest places on the field to throw, in the NFL where the best of the best play. Totally not different than high school. 

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

We're not talking about 1-dimensional QBs. A dual-threat QB is much harder to defend than one that can only run or only pass. Perhaps you can list a few dual-threat QBs that lost their jobs because their running was no longer effective. Elway was still making plays with his feet in his final season. Steve Young too. It seems to me you must be concluding that Cam Newton's running wore him out as a passer . My opinion of Newton is he just failed to keep improving as a passer. Did he put in the work like Brady to keep getting better or did he expect his arrival in the NFL to sustain a long career? Obviously Vick (pre-Dungy) thought his abilities were enough and didn't put in the work. But when he tried to turn his life around he did the work and finally improved as a passer. Show me examples of Newton putting in the work to become a better passer each season. Newton's career didn't fizzle out because he couldn't physically perform, it fizzled out because of the mental aspects. 

The way I see it, saying that allowing a dual-threat QB to be a dual threat QB is unsustainable is the same as when they used to say, " a black QB will never win a Super Bowl." Before it ever happened, all the "evidence" supported the claim. But there weren't a lot of black QBs that teams had built around in those days. So there were less opportunities to prove the naysayers wrong. NFL history is filled with white QBs that never won a Super Bowl. Several are in the HOF (Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, etc...) Now, in today's NFL, there are a lot more teams that have talented black QBs and it's no longer uncommon to see one hoisting a Lombardi trophy at the end of the year. In that way, I feel the unsustainable label put on dual-threat QBs is just based on old data where dual-threat QBs were rare. They are becoming extremely common now. It's very premature to say they are all doomed to have short careers. It's the way the NFL game is evolving. Some of you just prefer the old school pocket passer and refuse to believe anything positive can come from a player that doesn't fit that profile. 

Jackie Chan is 70 years old and still doing a lot of his own stunts. Tom Cruise is 61 and still doing his own stunts. Most people would claim actor/stuntman for action movies is unsustainable, but there are two old farts right there proving the doubters wrong. 

As for Hurts, the only thing about his running that was off in 2023 was how often he gave himself up  and there is a lot of film of that before the Miami game where he got hit on his knee in the pocket. 

The difference between you and I is that you would prefer to force Hurts to be just a passer and I would prefer Hurts to be Jalen Hurts. 

Good post.

You're talking about possible running QB failures who were successes.   Maybe this, maybe that about Cam Newton, but he got the Panthers to the Super Bowl and played 10 years or so.  Arguments against running QBs seem to focus on years well after the question of whether they were good or worthwhile to get was answered with a yes.

Try comparing 1st round picks,  running QBs and non running QBs,   look at the rest of the draft.   Running QBs have a better hit rate than non running.   Most non running QBs are not good enough passers,  even 1st round ones, to be able to win without running that they can't do well enough, or don't want to do.   So,  you have a good number of Zach Wilsons out there. 

6 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Goff ended up being a much better QB than I thought he would become from the jump, and he deserves a lot of credit for resurrecting his career in Detroit of all places. That being said, he's probably somewhere in the 10-15 range among starting QB's in the league and that contract is insane.

6 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

It'll probably make for a more expensive Dak, so I approve.

Unless Dak is a top 5 QB by our standards this year, I see the Cowboys moving on TBH. 

17 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Goff ended up being a much better QB than I thought he would become from the jump, and he deserves a lot of credit for resurrecting his career in Detroit of all places. That being said, he's probably somewhere in the 10-15 range among starting QB's in the league and that contract is insane.

That was my reaction.  Saw the numbers and just said the QB position has gone el loco.  Even Hurts.  No way are these guys worth it.

22 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Goff ended up being a much better QB than I thought he would become from the jump, and he deserves a lot of credit for resurrecting his career in Detroit of all places. That being said, he's probably somewhere in the 10-15 range among starting QB's in the league and that contract is insane.

Helps the lions oline has become really good and they surrounded him with a lot of weapons.  I’d argue their rushing attack better now with Gibbs and Montgomery than when Stafford was there and they’ve done a good job adding talent consistently. TBH you replace Goff with Stafford i think their odds to win the SB would be higher than 4th (DK)

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

We're not talking about 1-dimensional QBs. A dual-threat QB is much harder to defend than one that can only run or only pass. Perhaps you can list a few dual-threat QBs that lost their jobs because their running was no longer effective. Elway was still making plays with his feet in his final season. Steve Young too. It seems to me you must be concluding that Cam Newton's running wore him out as a passer . My opinion of Newton is he just failed to keep improving as a passer. Did he put in the work like Brady to keep getting better or did he expect his arrival in the NFL to sustain a long career? Obviously Vick (pre-Dungy) thought his abilities were enough and didn't put in the work. But when he tried to turn his life around he did the work and finally improved as a passer. Show me examples of Newton putting in the work to become a better passer each season. Newton's career didn't fizzle out because he couldn't physically perform, it fizzled out because of the mental aspects. 

The way I see it, saying that allowing a dual-threat QB to be a dual threat QB is unsustainable is the same as when they used to say, " a black QB will never win a Super Bowl." Before it ever happened, all the "evidence" supported the claim. But there weren't a lot of black QBs that teams had built around in those days. So there were less opportunities to prove the naysayers wrong. NFL history is filled with white QBs that never won a Super Bowl. Several are in the HOF (Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, etc...) Now, in today's NFL, there are a lot more teams that have talented black QBs and it's no longer uncommon to see one hoisting a Lombardi trophy at the end of the year. In that way, I feel the unsustainable label put on dual-threat QBs is just based on old data where dual-threat QBs were rare. They are becoming extremely common now. It's very premature to say they are all doomed to have short careers. It's the way the NFL game is evolving. Some of you just prefer the old school pocket passer and refuse to believe anything positive can come from a player that doesn't fit that profile. 

Jackie Chan is 70 years old and still doing a lot of his own stunts. Tom Cruise is 61 and still doing his own stunts. Most people would claim actor/stuntman for action movies is unsustainable, but there are two old farts right there proving the doubters wrong. 

As for Hurts, the only thing about his running that was off in 2023 was how often he gave himself up  and there is a lot of film of that before the Miami game where he got hit on his knee in the pocket. 

The difference between you and I is that you would prefer to force Hurts to be just a passer and I would prefer Hurts to be Jalen Hurts. 

Making plays with their feet is completely different from what I am talking about.   I am talking about not making the QB a part of the running game as part of the scheme.  What Young did was improv when the play broke down, not the design of the play.  Steve Young had 722 carries over a 17 year career.   Jalen Hurts has 524 carries in 4 seasons.  Hurts will pass Young in carries midway through the 2025 season at the current rate he is running the ball.  Apples and oranges.   There's no comparison.  The SF 49ers offense with Young was not designed in any way shape or form about his ability to run the ball.   That was an added benefit when things broke down.  The Eagles need to make that the plan for Hurts.

524 carries in 51 career starts.  10+ carries a game.   That's an insanely high rate.  How high?   Steve Young's 722 carries was over 143 starts... that's 5 carries a game.    

 

And yes, Cam Newton's running impacted his throwing.  He took a beating on his shoulders while running the ball.    His career absolutely ended because he literally couldn't physically throw the ball anymore, because of the beating on his shoulders over the course of his brief career.   But, sure, go ahead and try to deny the reality of what happened to his career.   He can be a poor student of the game AND be physically beaten up to the point of ineffectiveness.   It doesn't have to be one or the other.   His throws lost all their zip by the age of 29.

 

We aren't going to change each other's minds...  but just watch and you will see Lamar Jackson's body break down and he will fall off, likely around the age of 30... if not sooner.  And if the Eagles don't change the philosophy of the offense (gee, I wonder why they'd hire an OC who isn't known for using the QB as a primary ball carrier), then Hurts' career time line will also tail off and expire roughly around the age of 30.  

I don't prefer the old school passer because I have my head in the sand.   The QB gets protections in the pocket he doesn't get when running.  The game is officiated to benefit the passing game.   The salary structure is designed around the passing game.   The entire goal of the NFL is the passing game.  The 'dual threat' QB is what NFL offenses lean on when they don't have a legit passer at QB.  And what we've seen is that it sizzles early and then fizzles out.   

 

I don't want to force Hurts to be just a passer.   I want to see the Eagles have sustained success.   And the only way to do that is with the QB being a passer, not a runner.   If he has to escape the pocket from time to time... great.  Do it.  That's been a hallmark of a Philadelphia Eagles QB going back to Randall Cunningham.  But, let's eliminate the QB sweep, the over reliance on the QB draw, etc., etc.