2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The guy who pontificated about the alleged economic ignorance of posters here criticizing Trump's economic policies reactionary and chaotic decision making is now out here trying to sell us on centralizing in Washington economic decisionmaking for select industries.

Peak CVON.

"It's not socialism when I do it"

There’s absolutely nothing "socialistic” about it. The government wouldn’t own these companies.

And yes, absolutely, certain industries should be banned from being outsourced. Don’t be retarded.

Would you outsource our nuclear weapons manufacturing to China? No, of course not, because that would be stupid for national security purposes even if it would be economically more efficient.

For the same reason, outsourcing some industries is stupid not for economic reasons but for national security reasons.

Surely you understand this?

Companies are withdrawing formal guidance (see American Airlines this AM), or issuing 2 sets of guidance (United). Capital markets remain frozen, and all investment by companies has stopped. And layoffs are accelerating.

Corporations and markets need stability, not chaos. You couldn't conceive of an easier way to cause a recession and capital markets crisis.

2 hours ago, Paul852 said:

Trump is helping bring these issues into the light, guys!

What is it with you people and your defective reading comprehension? Or is it just deliberate misrepresentation of what I said?

6 minutes ago, TEW said:

Would you outsource our nuclear weapons manufacturing to China?

Remember when people used to take this clown seriously?

15 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Remember when people used to take this clown seriously?

Because they like Trump's racism, they just can't bring themselves to criticize anything else about him.

30 minutes ago, TEW said:

What is it with you people and your defective reading comprehension? Or is it just deliberate misrepresentation of what I said?

29 minutes ago, TEW said:

There’s absolutely nothing "socialistic” about it. The government wouldn’t own these companies.

And yes, absolutely, certain industries should be banned from being outsourced. Don’t be retarded.

Would you outsource our nuclear weapons manufacturing to China? No, of course not, because that would be stupid for national security purposes even if it would be economically more efficient.

For the same reason, outsourcing some industries is stupid not for economic reasons but for national security reasons.

Surely you understand this?

If these moves were targeted to certain critical industries, then you might have a point. But across the board tariffs based on a whackadoodle formula driven by trade deficits in goods is neither targeted nor logical. And frankly, if we were thinking about brining back semiconductor manufacturing, then we'd be continuing grants under the CHIPs act -- instead Lutnick is freezing them because it was a Biden program, and therefore by definition sucks.

Is there a reason to protect certain industries in very limited circumstances for national security reasons? Yes. Is that remotely close to what is currently happening? No.

Also, if you're worried about access to critical goods and supplies...that's an argument for having free trade and strong relationships with allies. But we have chosen the path of isolating ourselves by ticking off ally and foe alike.

There is no logic. There is no plan. Our policy is wholly dependent on who was the last person in Trump's ear.

I think I missed the China tariff temporarily dropping to 50%. Was that just a verbal announcement/rumor?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2025/04/24/stocks-us-china-powell/83242896007/

"Any claims about the progress of China-U.S. economic and trade negotiations are groundless and have no factual basis," He Yadong, a commerce ministry spokesman, said. There were no ongoing talks with the U.S. over trade matters and the U.S. "should cancel all the unilateral measures on China," He said.

Foreign ministry spokesperson Guo Jiakun said reports of U.S.-China talks were "fake news."

Art of the deal, 4D chess amirite MAGAts?

9 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

pfft, obviously just another dei indoctrinated company.

Despite everything that Trump has done wrong, and it's pretty much everything, I don't expect this to continue if US citizens start to feel the effects of the policies he's burdened them with.

He will eventually drop tariffs and bow to Xi. If Trump is anything at all, he's massively insecure about his image. I truly believe that this would have already happened if Trump and the administration didn't personally attack all Chinese people.

This is now personal to Xi and China. They probably won't let Trump get away with his typical "public victory, private capitulation" strategy. He's probably going to have to publicly humiliate himself before this is all said and done. But that won't happen until we're on the brink of economic disaster.

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

If these moves were targeted to certain critical industries, then you might have a point. But across the board tariffs based on a whackadoodle formula driven by trade deficits in goods is neither targeted nor logical. And frankly, if we were thinking about brining back semiconductor manufacturing, then we'd be continuing grants under the CHIPs act -- instead Lutnick is freezing them because it was a Biden program, and therefore by definition sucks.

Is there a reason to protect certain industries in very limited circumstances for national security reasons? Yes. Is that remotely close to what is currently happening? No.

I agree the indiscriminate implementation of tariffs has been haphazard and ill conceived. Absolutely no argument from me on that.

But we need to get real — relying on others, let alone freaking China, for pharmaceuticals is insane. Relying on them for the supply chain of our military is insane. preventing this from happening isn’t "socialism” in either a strict sense or in a basic, above room temperature IQ sense.

i don't think trump really cares about the national security aspect of it. that would require critical thinking, and well ... no.

9 minutes ago, TEW said:

I agree the indiscriminate implementation of tariffs has been haphazard and ill conceived. Absolutely no argument from me on that.

But we need to get real — relying on others, let alone freaking China, for pharmaceuticals is insane. Relying on them for the supply chain of our military is insane. preventing this from happening isn’t "socialism” in either a strict sense or in a basic, above room temperature IQ sense.

Wow. JonSnow's line about socialism is mocking trumpbots like you that call everything "socialism" when Democrats are in power. Are these tariffs literally socialism? No. Would you be calling it socialism if the exact same policies came from a Democrat administration? Yes. For a supposed "smart guy" you seem to be pretty F'ing retarded.

11 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Wow. JonSnow's line about socialism is mocking trumpbots like you that call everything "socialism" when Democrats are in power. Are these tariffs literally socialism? No. Would you be calling it socialism if the exact same policies came from a Democrat administration? Yes. For a supposed "smart guy" you seem to be pretty F'ing retarded.

No, I would not. I’ve been consistent that national security needs supersede economic efficiency.

This is a good example of why you are so F’n stupid.

33 minutes ago, TEW said:

I agree the indiscriminate implementation of tariffs has been haphazard and ill conceived. Absolutely no argument from me on that.

But we need to get real — relying on others, let alone freaking China, for pharmaceuticals is insane. Relying on them for the supply chain of our military is insane. preventing this from happening isn’t "socialism” in either a strict sense or in a basic, above room temperature IQ sense.

Ok, fine, but what exactly did Trump accomplish with this stunt in this regard? Absolutely nothing.

8 minutes ago, TEW said:

No, I would not.

Yea the guy who calls everyone a commie and makes Pinochet jokes about dropping people out of helos is suddenly very defensive when someone turns the shitposting around and aims it at his direction. You're a massive moron if you think anyone actually believes you on any of this.

8 minutes ago, barho said:

Ok, fine, but what exactly did Trump accomplish with this stunt in this regard? Absolutely nothing.

When have I defended Trump on his tariffs?

Seriously, can any of you read? Or do you just go into hive mind mode where anyone to the right of AOC just agrees with Trump on everything in your mind?

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yea the guy who calls everyone a commie and makes Pinochet jokes about dropping people out of helos is suddenly very defensive when someone turns the shitposting around and aims it at his direction. You're a massive moron if you think anyone actually believes you on any of this.

I think you’re too stupid to differentiate a joke from a serious comment, even if you recognize a comment as a joke, as you’ve demonstrated in this post.

43 minutes ago, TEW said:

But we need to get real — relying on others, let alone freaking China, for pharmaceuticals is insane. Relying on them for the supply chain of our military is insane. preventing this from happening isn’t "socialism” in either a strict sense or in a basic, above room temperature IQ sense.

We have multiple trading partners that can supply pharmaceuticals. You're a risk person. You should know that diversification and leaning into the global market, not withdrawing from it, for supply is the answer.

Unless you're telling me that the only thing that matters is an uninterrupted supply of pills if for some reason we go to war with all of our trading partners then there is NO reason to go and nuke the world markets because you want those low paying jobs. It makes no sense!

49 minutes ago, TEW said:

I agree the indiscriminate implementation of tariffs has been haphazard and ill conceived. Absolutely no argument from me on that.

But we need to get real — relying on others, let alone freaking China, for pharmaceuticals is insane. Relying on them for the supply chain of our military is insane. preventing this from happening isn’t "socialism” in either a strict sense or in a basic, above room temperature IQ sense.

You'll get some agreement from me on semiconductors for sure -- we need them for the AI race, and we also need a hedge in case supply from Taiwan is interrupted by an invasion (which I find unlikely, but our capitulation to Russia is raising the odds). Pharmaceuticals are tougher -- most come from India, but the active pharma ingredients generally come from China. If we wanted to start large scale production of pharmaceuticals in the US, well...that's going to take decades and the costs will be massively higher (thanks FDA). The better play would be to try and multi source the APIs while building stockpiles of critical pharmaceuticals here -- this was talked about during COVID but lost steam. But onshoring pharma production is impractical.

What should keep everyone up at night is rare earths. China really has all of the supply.

7 minutes ago, TEW said:

When have I defended Trump on his tariffs?

Seriously, can any of you read? Or do you just go into hive mind mode where anyone to the right of AOC just agrees with Trump on everything in your mind?

So you think he totally screwed up with the tariffs. Great we agree. Maybe you can agree when it comes to his handling of this situation he is a complete failure? Cause we agree he accomplished nothing with the tariffs, right?