2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Apologies for quoting this post a 2nd time, but I wanted to remind you of your reaction after we beat the Lions in 2022:

 

We followed up with that disastrous win with 15 more wins and a trip to the Super Bowl. 

Which we lost, proving the naysayers right in the end, right?

1 hour ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

But the vast majority of the points here have nothing to do with the play itself and more to do with stupid utilization of it. Which is kind of my point. Just use it more responsibly.

Do you ask an alcoholic to use beer more responsibly? 

39 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Which we lost, proving the naysayers right in the end, right?

I'll buy that if you can find me proof of a doom & gloom naysayer that after an "ugly" season opening win predicted we would cruise to the super bowl and lose in the final moments. 

10 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm not sure.  The center isn't to blame when the QB rolls to his right from a clean pocket and throws the ball across his body late and it gets picked off in the RZ.  Nor is the C to blame when the QB stands in the pocket, surveys the field and then throws to the inside of a clearly covered WR, who has a LB running stride for stride with him ON THE INSIDE, and the ball gets picked off.   And the center takes no blame when the QB leaves the pocket and chooses to take a sack at the end of the half rather than throwing the ball away preserving a timeout.  That's not about QB-C familiarity.  In other words, Hurts' biggest blunders in the game had nothing to do with a new center.   The two botched snaps are split.  One on Jurgens and one on Hurts.  No one is blaming Hurts for the one that was clearly on Jurgens.  And that's where the new center makes a difference in those two.  But they aren't concerns for which Hurts has been getting criticized.  The only way it is linked is if its because Hurts' head was swimming regarding the protections that he never had to worry about before with Kelce.  Then its linked and its a concern moving forward.  He could grow into it.  He might not.  They might also turn it over to Jurgens eventually as well.

No one's blaming anyone. Point is that they need time to gel. That's all that I'm trying to convey. A lot of new this year from coaches, scheme, to personnel. Far from a finished product in week 1.

1 hour ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Which we lost, proving the naysayers right in the end, right?

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

15 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

What about 1 or 2 possessions in Game 1, and then 4 or 5 in Game 2?  And yes, I believe it could, ESPECIALLY with the new rules and limited opportunities to do things in practice anyway.   It would be different if they were doing 2 a days up in Lehigh like they did back in the day and they were hitting regularly in practice.   They don't.   So, having some 'live' periods in the PS would definitely offer some benefit.   But, they are so scared of injury, they are willing to put up with extreme rust to start the year.

Not sure what 1 or 2 possessions will do in-game 1.  People are bringing up the QB-C exchange as a need for more PS reps.  This could happen in week 7 or week 12.  Are we going to blame bad snaps from Jurgens in those weeks later in the year on lack of preseason drives?  Hopefully Jurgens was just nervous and will clean that up right away but it might happen a few times thru out the year.

If the Eagles or any team for that matter actually played quite a bit during the preseason then OK but what teams play their starters that much?  Do teams play starters 4 or 5 drives during PS games?   I'm not sure but it doesn't seem like it.

I don't blame them for not playing in the PS.  We all know that if Jalen Carter, Hurts, AJ Brown or any of our stars tears an ACL or Achilles in a preseason game because they were playing an entire half or something we'd all have our pitchforks out complaining why did they play them.

I think we'd all like to see them practice like the old days but it's the way the NFL is now.  We just have to deal with the softer practices and teams being rusty to start the year.  

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

I guess that's a failure on my part. I was being sarcastic as hell.

16 hours ago, judunno said:

He's been a turnover machine. That's the biggest problem. Protect the damn ball and live another play.

And that’s why I’m concerned. This was his biggest problem last year and it was again on Friday night.

My thoughts on the game...

- Yes, Hurts' performance was a problem. The TDs to AJ and Saquon were great - but we already know Hurts throws an elite deep outside ball. What we don't know is whether he can make consistently good decisions, both in the pocket and on zone reads. This game was 2023 all over again from Hurts.

- Saquon was much better than I expected. I knew he still had burst, but he showed much closer to rookie year Saquon than I ever would've expected. If he's this guy for 2 years, what a home run signing.

- Jalen Carter gets held a lot, but it's been a while since he's taken over a game. Still a really, really good player, but when you have Hall of Fame talent the standard is higher. I think he'll step up.

- Mitchell was incredible. The deep pass breakup against Watson and that RZ crosser he clamped down on were classic Eagles CB catnip, and he said no not me. Smarts, speed, toughness, swagger. Insane upside.

- AJ Brown and Devonta Smith, casual greatness. We can't take these guys for granted.

- I'm really interested in what the tape shows on Baun. Seemed to line up all over and make plays all over. Interesting usage.

15 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm not writing him off yet either, but very soon I might start looking for a pen.

I’m going to start with pencil just so I can erase it easily 😊.

9 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

It's all gravy after they won the SB for me. 

I still want them to win one or two more while I’m still around, but yeah that pressure of not winning one is now gone.  

8 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I switch to Verizon 5G+ internet at my house and they gave it to me for free. Much better than Comcast and cox internet 

I got auto-renewed, but I’ll have to remember to do this next year

5 hours ago, Saltpeter said:

My thoughts on the game...

- Yes, Hurts' performance was a problem. The TDs to AJ and Saquon were great - but we already know Hurts throws an elite deep outside ball. What we don't know is whether he can make consistently good decisions, both in the pocket and on zone reads. This game was 2023 all over again from Hurts.

I’m somewhere in the middle on this one.  It certainly wasn’t 2022 Hurts, but it was better than 2023 Hurts…at least better than late 2023 Hurts.  The turnovers have to stop (well, no QB can ever eliminate them completely, but they need to be limited to like 1 for every 3-4 TDs…the 1:1 ratio is just terrible).  I think they will get under control as the season goes on.  If they don’t, then we’ll know there’s a real problem.  

It still works in college. The NFL ruined a great thing. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I agree.  The 'upside' of the play is a maximum of 2 yards.  Other plays, literally nearly every other play you could run, has an ultimate upside, even if it's unlikely, of breaking out and going the distance, and that includes the horrific flanker screens they ran last year.  A missed tackle here and a botched assignment there and it could have gone all the way (though not with this team).  The Tush Push from the 1 to get to pay dirt makes tons of sense to me.  1 yard is the ultimate goal in that situation.  Get in, some way, any way.  But, 3rd and 1 from your own 29?  Is it really the only, or even best option?  It is an extremely limiting option.  What about 3rd and 1 from the opponent's 29?  Maybe a shot at the end zone on 3rd down, knowing that an incomplete pass could still give you the opportunity to move the chains on 4th down, but you might also get the TD or a first and goal situation.  

 

The old adage, "you can't go broke taking a profit" may be true, but it is also short sighted.  Sometimes you need to roll the dice and ride it out to get larger gains rather than the short sighted approach and cash out immediately once the numbers are in your favor.   

 

That's how I see the Tush Push.  The goal is merely to move the chains.  And that's a great motivator... but the ultimate goal is to get into the end zone.  And if you have a weapon like the Tush Push (or if you ask me, the real weapon was having a center like Kelce that could make any strong QB behind him highly effective on a QB sneak - recall Wentz' sneak numbers were also ridiculously successful), then you should leverage it to get higher yields than merely a first down. 

Running the Tush Push from the 29 on 3rd and 1 is nice when it results in a first down from the 28.   But, what if you actually used a wrinkle off it and instead of gaining only 1 yard, turned it into 5 yards, 10 yards, even got into the end zone?  And if you failed on the 3rd down play with an incompletion on the wrinkle, you'd have a shot at the actual Tush Push on 4th down with the same yardage opportunity as the play before.    Granted, you'd need to run it enough on 3rd down to keep defenses honest to overcommit.   But where did the wrinkles go that they hinted at and showed a little in 2022?  They completely disappeared in 2023.

And this team went WAY overboard with it.  The coaches (or at least one of them, likely at least 2) started to think of 3rd and 8 as a 3rd and 7, so that they could get into a 4th and 1 situation.  They were literally calling plays that were designed to end up SHORT of the sticks, rather than attempting to get beyond the sticks on 3rd downs.  (Such as the many QB draws on 3rd and longs in the red zone). Sirianni admitted as much when he said that having that in the back pocket was like every set of downs is "1st and 9".   That showed where his head was with this play.  It was their saving grace to get them out of trouble.  And they went to that well constantly.  

But, that's a horrific way of thinking and the offense almost became hampered by the success of the Tush Push.   On the surface, having a stellar short yardage play is a great thing to have.   However, when the tail begins to wag the dog, you've got a problem.   And frankly, that's how I see the Tush Push having evolved with this team.  And the bigger the reputation became, the more often the Eagles went to that well.  I remember one game, I think the Eagles ran it at least 5 times.  It almost seemed like the goal for the offense was to see how many times they could run it.  A play which by design is limited in its scope to only gaining 1 to 2 yards at a maximum should not have become the focal point of the offense that it did last year.  But, when you are drowning in self-doubt and unsure how to proceed, you'll grab on to any flotation device.  So, the more the offense struggled, the more they seemed to focus on getting in position to use the Tush Push, rather than trying to find ways to leverage it into bigger gains.

With all due respect, this is complete nonsense. 

8 hours ago, judunno said:

No one's blaming anyone. Point is that they need time to gel. That's all that I'm trying to convey. A lot of new this year from coaches, scheme, to personnel. Far from a finished product in week 1.

Absolutely, which is why if it had been miscommunication (like the botched snap from the shotgun) I'd not be concerned about it.   But, the QB throwing into triple coverage over the middle, or throwing late, across his body, across the middle after directing traffic to that spot in the red zone concerns me.  Those issues are completely separate from the coaches, scheme or personnel and exist only in the head of Hurts.  He has to know better.  Same with taking a sack at the end of the half when he could have thrown the ball away and preserved a timeout.  That's QB 101.  And again, is separate from all those other elements, and more importantly, is in line with boneheaded plays he's made in previous years that have cost the team.   These aren't new issues.  They are old.   So, that's why there is concern.  Making excuses for them and trying to hide them under those newer elements is a non sequitur.  Completely separate issues.

It's week 1 after an Eagles dub.

Go Browns
Go Rams
Go Jets (tomorrow)

Sadly, I will be rooting for the Giants today so they avoid picking in the top 5 and can therefore get stuck in QB purgatory. 

1 hour ago, McMVP said:

I got auto-renewed, but I’ll have to remember to do this next year

Just cancel it now so you don't forget 

Stud.

https://youtu.be/IgraRT0gPUQ?si=NfesFQ7bnrs_V4Ps

7 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I guess that's a failure on my part. I was being sarcastic as hell.

Not on your part, more so on others who have actually made arguments very similar to that.

7 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

Not sure what 1 or 2 possessions will do in-game 1.  People are bringing up the QB-C exchange as a need for more PS reps.  This could happen in week 7 or week 12.  Are we going to blame bad snaps from Jurgens in those weeks later in the year on lack of preseason drives?  Hopefully Jurgens was just nervous and will clean that up right away but it might happen a few times thru out the year.

If the Eagles or any team for that matter actually played quite a bit during the preseason then OK but what teams play their starters that much?  Do teams play starters 4 or 5 drives during PS games?   I'm not sure but it doesn't seem like it.

I don't blame them for not playing in the PS.  We all know that if Jalen Carter, Hurts, AJ Brown or any of our stars tears an ACL or Achilles in a preseason game because they were playing an entire half or something we'd all have our pitchforks out complaining why did they play them.

I think we'd all like to see them practice like the old days but it's the way the NFL is now.  We just have to deal with the softer practices and teams being rusty to start the year.  

Maybe Jurgens getting to work out his nerves under the bright lights of a PS game helps prepare him for the nerves of the bright lights in Game 1?  And it wouldn't be 1-2 drives (somewhere around 10-15 snaps)... But it would be a total of between about 7-10 (around 50-80 snaps).  That's a decent number of snaps to work through some of the kinks and the jitters with much lower consequences.). Back in the day, Game 1 starters would play a series or two, sometimes a full quarter if they were an especially young group.  Game 2 would be about a quarter and a half, sometimes a full half, and Game 3 would be the dress rehearsal and players would play the first half, and usually pop back in for the first drive of the second half to get used to the delay of halftime.  Game 4 the starters would all sit and the primary backups and depth players would get a final shot to prove their worth.  With a full week off between the final preseason game and the regular season, sitting the starters in the last game isn't even necessary like it used to be.

 

Yes, it would suck if they get hurt in a PS game and they miss time.   It would also suck if they get hurt in practice and miss time.   Maybe we should stop having them practice altogether?  Seems the only logical conclusion to be drawn.   Injuries are a reality in the NFL.  That's just the nature of the game.  And no one can do anything to stop them from happening.  Rules have been changed to make the injuries less life altering, but its the nature of the beast.   (And the same is true of every other sport too.  And players see limited action in those preseason games across all the leagues.)

 

Now, if the starters are playing more than about 7-10 drives, I'd be upset about it.  Very upset about it.   But, if they suffer a Ki-Jana Carter injury... there's nothing that anyone can do about it.   That's just how it goes.   (For the uninitiated, the Ki-Jana Carter injury was on the second snap of his first preseason game, he blew out his knee untouched in the backfield.  And frankly, was never the same after that.   A sad ending for a great great running back.). That type of thing can happen any time, any where.  Teddy Bridgewater had a horrific injury like that in a practice.  Things happen like that with football.  These guys are bigger, stronger, faster, etc. and the strains on the tendons and ligaments are real.  Sometimes they just give out.

Ultimately, just as the old heads, like myself, are going to have to deal with the softer practices and rust to start the year, so too are folks like yourself going to have to deal with the old heads complaining about it.  Some old dogs learn new tricks much slower than others.  Some never do.  As with most things... its a process.   Ah well... even Tastykake isn't what it used to be!

16 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Absolutely, which is why if it had been miscommunication (like the botched snap from the shotgun) I'd not be concerned about it.   But, the QB throwing into triple coverage over the middle, or throwing late, across his body, across the middle after directing traffic to that spot in the red zone concerns me.  Those issues are completely separate from the coaches, scheme or personnel and exist only in the head of Hurts.  He has to know better.  Same with taking a sack at the end of the half when he could have thrown the ball away and preserved a timeout.  That's QB 101.  And again, is separate from all those other elements, and more importantly, is in line with boneheaded plays he's made in previous years that have cost the team.   These aren't new issues.  They are old.   So, that's why there is concern.  Making excuses for them and trying to hide them under those newer elements is a non sequitur.  Completely separate issues.

It's Sirianni's fault. No wait, Brian Johnson's. He's gone?! Must be Kelce retiring. Eh..maybe the rust? I got it, new offense! Kellen Moore instructs him to do the triple coverage fade to catch teams asleep at the wheel.

Strange that he's seemed to have these struggles the bulk of his career with a bunch of moving parts. There has been one consistent piece in this. I wonder what it could be?

1 hour ago, McMVP said:

I’m somewhere in the middle on this one.  It certainly wasn’t 2022 Hurts, but it was better than 2023 Hurts…at least better than late 2023 Hurts.  The turnovers have to stop (well, no QB can ever eliminate them completely, but they need to be limited to like 1 for every 3-4 TDs…the 1:1 ratio is just terrible).  I think they will get under control as the season goes on.  If they don’t, then we’ll know there’s a real problem.  

Turnovers from the QB are part of the game.  Foolish turnovers are the bigger concern.  He's got to get better about situational awareness.  He's played way too much football to continue to make some of these same mistakes.  Year 5 in the NFL.  Starter at a big time college program for at least 3 years, I think.  And I think he started all 4 years in HS, and his dad is a coach.  How haven't some of these situations been drilled into him since he was about 14 or 15 years old?  

Can someone tell me what think new kick off rules are trying to achieve ?

i honestly don’t get it. 

Hurts - For me it is pretty clear.  Hurts needs to develop his game so that more, not all, of it is done standing tall in the pocket.  Moore can help by calling games that ultimately help Hurts in the long run which means not calling a lot of plays where Hurst has the option to run.  Teams have caught up to those and Hurts isn't as quick as he was a few years back.  I'd be happy reducing those to just a couple per game.  The 2nd and biggest item is for Hurts to simply learn to stay in the pocket and use his leg/body strength from there.  The moment he starts moving back and right he is cooked.  More Big Ben and less Vick.

For past players to look at, McNabb, McNair, and Vince Evans come to mind.  I'm not saying Hurts is those guys but they all progressed into being more classic pocket passers over time which really helped them develop their careers as their legs started to fade.