13 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Implying he wasn't even aware or on board with the decision? I can even understand the rationale of the play call, but as a head coach, at least take some F'ing ownership. Ugh, what a weasel. I'm so done with him.

I wouldn't say that's what he was implying, and earlier in the PC he said it's on all the coaches including him. The quote I was talking about is around 7:55.

The exchange was

McLane: "to clarify on the calls though, Kellens making the....."

Sirianni: cutting him off and getting pissy "Kellen is the offensive coordinator and makes the calls, yea, if you're trying to stir that up."

McLane mumbles something I can't make out

Sirianni: "I'm the Head Coach"

 

48 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

Then how about a toss to the outside! There are run plays that go to the outside too 

The passing offense is on schedule more than you think. 

15 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

• Coaching was an issue, so he got an experienced veteran DC. We may not like his scheme or style but at least he created the scheme and should be skilled enough to coach these guys up.

I brought this up last night. I already knew the personnel wasn’t going to be great. we weren’t gonna give Vic Fangio everything in the world so we can make his defense work. Part of the reason why we moved on from Sean Desai was because couldn’t coach guys up and inexperienced as a DC. So they went out and paid Vic Fangio a good amount of money. The reason why they did it wasn’t because they were just gonna give them all the personnel he’s ever warted and the best players he could have so he can run his scheme.

It was because we all believed he was smart enough and good enough as a coach to coach up some of the guys on this team so they can start playing better. along with adding some pieces to give him better personnel. the guys that stayed are still playing somewhat similar level to what desai had them playing at. I would also argue Josh sweat, Jordan Davis and Carter were actually playing better under Desai at the start the year last year than what they have looked like so far through two games.

3 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Then how about a toss to the outside! There are run plays that go to the outside too 

Because that's not inside zone, duh

29 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The real issue is I don't know what the plan is from here. The offense is locked in for the next 2-3 years, and no one is really moveable given contract structures. And for the most part that's fine -- the offense is a top 10 unit in the NFL. But we have basically no salary cap space for the defense, and the high draft picks aren't producing. I have no idea what has happened to Carter, Davis just blows (and I liked the pick), Huff is invisible, Smith can't get pressure, etc. It's easy to say "they only gave up 22 points" but they are simply getting manhandled. 

Frankly, I'd give Ojomo, Williams, Booker and BG a ton more snaps. At least I see effort there.

Yes they need to shake some things up. Fangio needs to talk tough to himself and hold himself accountable, and make some changes too.

The offense on paper should be dominant and the defense would only have to do so much. The offense should have scored at least two more times in that game to give them a comfortable lead.

41 minutes ago, RLC said:

Imagine blaming any unit but the defense last night. Unserious people.

It's not the NBA.  The game is more than the last 2 minutes.

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I have been a critic of Howie a long time especially drafting on defense. However, he improved in recent years. We were happy with the recent drafts on paper, mostly. But you can't fix a defense completely in a year or two. On paper, Howie did a good job giving the coaches talent. Yes, there are gaps and weak spots. Consider what Howie has given the coaches.

• Coaching was an issue, so he got an experienced veteran DC. We may not like his scheme or style but at least he created the scheme and should be skilled enough to coach these guys up.
• Rebuilt the secondary with getting CJGJ back, drafting Q and DeJean. Blankenship was an UDFA gem. Ringo, Rodgers, Ricks quality guys as backups. Still have Slay. I didn't like bringing back Maddox or Bradberry but at least that's not all they relied on.
• Jalen Carter was supposed to be a franchise changing player. Williams is good. Jordan Davis was a gamble (I didn't like trading up and giving up 2 picks) but we always knew it was a risk/reward scenario.
• Huff was supposed to replace Reddick's production.
• We assumed they were going to trade either Sweat or Reddick, because Reddick wanted more money he was gone.
• Baun was a good signing.
• People liked the Nolan Smith pick at the time. 

If Fangio is such an old school, tough talking guy who holds them accountable, how does he watch that mess of a defense last night and not shake things up? Philly fans love when a coach talks tough to the media. Yeah, that's great. But that last defensive drive was horrendous. They let the Falcons march down the field like they were playing 11 on 7, guys were WIDE open. There is no pass rush. There is no creativity in the play calling. 

The defense isn't supposed to be the strength of this team, the offense is. But the defense also has to hold up their end. 

In some respects it is fair to defend Howie, but not for everything. At the end of the day he's paid to get the decisions right. Not expecting him to get 100% of them right, but most of them or a lot of them. How many defensive moves have definitively worked out in the last two offseasons where they at least look to be unquestionably good? Carter and Mitchell? That's about it.

Cunningham, Bradberry, Edmunds, CJGJ(so far), Huff, Davis, Nolan Smith, Morrow... to name multiple that haven't, and I left some out.

Ok, you can defend a move like Nolan Smith and say people liked it at the time. But you're talking media and fans. He fell in the draft for a reason. My guess is because teams around the NFL weren't as high on him. Because he's built like a point guard, not an edge. Dean fell to the 3rd round. We're seeing why. He's small and lacks coverage skills.

They traded up for Jordan Davis who didn't produce in college, when you have a guy who did product sitting right there.

We can always debate this stuff til the end of time. What makes a pick a bid pick. Is it based on the outcome or the process or a combination of both? This feels like typical Howie. He latches on to a trend and gets way too cute with it. Like drafting only speed guys in the draft several years back. The latest one was going all in on Georgia, and so far we know only one of them can play for sure. Maybe two if Ringo can.

They put countless resources into that line both in draft and free agency and it looks like only one guy in the entire unit can play. I'm sorry, that has to fall on the GM.

Those of us who root for all Philly sports teams - our best hope for a championship over the next decade is the Phillies.  God help us.  

1 minute ago, mikemack8 said:

Those of us who root for all Philly sports teams - our best hope for a championship over the next decade is the Phillies.  God help us.  

They are gonna win it for RTK 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I brought this up last night. I already knew the personnel wasn’t going to be great. we weren’t gonna give Vic Fangio everything in the world so we can make his defense work. Part of the reason why we moved on from Sean Desai was because couldn’t coach guys up and inexperienced as a DC. So they went out and paid Vic Fangio a good amount of money. The reason why they did it wasn’t because they were just gonna give them all the personnel he’s ever warted and the best players he could have so he can run his scheme.

It was because we all believed he was smart enough and good enough as a coach to coach up some of the guys on this team so they can start playing better. along with adding some pieces to give him better personnel. the guys that stayed are still playing somewhat similar level to what desai had them playing at. I would also argue Josh sweat, Jordan Davis and Carter were actually playing better under Desai at the start the year last year than what they have looked like so far through two games.

And one thing that we don't know the answer to right now and may not for a while is Huff and Devin White don't feel like Fangio guys. He's typically not liked guys of those archetypes over his career. So if Fangio was going to have personnel input like they said he would before free agency, what went on there? I can't imagine Huff was #1 on Fangio's list. Nor Devin White. So did Howie not listen to him? Did he listen to him and ignore his input? Did Fangio actually want these guys?

Not to play mind reader, but listening to Fangio talk about these defenders, it doesn't feel like he's thrilled with many of them. Almost all of them it's "They aren't ready yet" or "They can't do X, Y, or Z" Very little praise across the board. So wtf happened in the offseason then?

Folks on here want to fire Sirianni because Kellen Moore calls a pass play on 3rd and 3, yet a lot of the same folks have no problem with Jalen Hurts floating another INT on a terrible throw into coverage, when what was needed was a mere 15 yards -- with 20+ seconds and timeouts left to do it.

Either Moore or Sirianni likely yelled at Hurts "could you at least try to throw to the white guy?", so Hurts peppers Covey with targets while still ignoring Goedert. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

They are gonna win it for RTK 

We all know how it ends, they will go all go ice cold at the exact same time and get bounced 

I don't really care if Fangio didn't hand pick all of these guys.  He needs to put them ina better position to succeed.

He got pantsed and the defense looked like a college team, just ish through a goose whenever the Falcons needed it.  Somehow they barely touched Cousins and he couldn't move or throw down field.  

 

 

7 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

And one thing that we don't know the answer to right now and may not for a while is Huff and Devin White don't feel like Fangio guys. He's typically not liked guys of those archetypes over his career. So if Fangio was going to have personnel input like they said he would before free agency, what went on there? I can't imagine Huff was #1 on Fangio's list. Nor Devin White. So did Howie not listen to him? Did he listen to him and ignore his input? Did Fangio actually want these guys?

Not to play mind reader, but listening to Fangio talk about these defenders, it doesn't feel like he's thrilled with many of them. Almost all of them it's "They aren't ready yet" or "They can't do X, Y, or Z" Very little praise across the board. So wtf happened in the offseason then?

If fangio didn’t have any input into the players they brought in then you shouldn’t have brought him in. If you’re just gonna give him players and say make it work, then you shouldn’t be running that scheme. Because you should be looking for players that fit the scheme so that you can run the scheme to the best of this ability.

It’s why i have a hard time believing that Fangio had no input on any of this. Frankly, I think Fangio old guy that’s grumpy and rarely ever says positive stuff. He was similar in Miami. It’s probably why guys were happy when he left (his grumpiness might be even more this year from the fact that the Phillies blew the series to the dbacks)

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Had to give Maddox all those snaps....

6 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

In some respects it is fair to defend Howie, but not for everything. At the end of the day he's paid to get the decisions right. Not expecting him to get 100% of them right, but most of them or a lot of them. How many defensive moves have definitively worked out in the last two offseasons where they at least look to be unquestionably good? Carter and Mitchell? That's about it.

Cunningham, Bradberry, Edmunds, CJGJ(so far), Huff, Davis, Nolan Smith, Morrow... to name multiple that haven't, and I left some out.

Ok, you can defend a move like Nolan Smith and say people liked it at the time. But you're talking media and fans. He fell in the draft for a reason. My guess is because teams around the NFL weren't as high on him. Because he's built like a point guard, not an edge. Dean fell to the 3rd round. We're seeing why. He's small and lacks coverage skills.

They traded up for Jordan Davis who didn't produce in college, when you have a guy who did product sitting right there.

We can always debate this stuff til the end of time. What makes a pick a bid pick. Is it based on the outcome or the process or a combination of both? This feels like typical Howie. He latches on to a trend and gets way too cute with it. Like drafting only speed guys in the draft several years back. The latest one was going all in on Georgia, and so far we know only one of them can play for sure. Maybe two if Ringo can.

They put countless resources into that line both in draft and free agency and it looks like only one guy in the entire unit can play. I'm sorry, that has to fall on the GM.

Howie still made mistakes in decisions both draft and free agency. But there were enough positive moves on defense along with hiring Fangio that the defense should not be this bad.

Jordan Davis started out playing well in his rookie year. Media and fans complained he wasn't getting enough snaps and that when he was off the field the run defense suffered. Fans were wanting more Jordan Davis. He's regressed. 

Jalen Carter started out great and people thought he was a lock for DPOY. Then he regressed.

Josh Sweat used to be a solid DE, then he regressed.

Reddick was a beast for a couple seasons, then he regressed.

Bradberry had a solid season, then he regressed.

Big Play Slay is now Darius, he's regressed. 

There's a pattern there. From Howie's perspective, he must be thinking hey I got these guys for you and they've all played well at first or shown flashes, what are you doing to coach them up or adjust the scheme to their strengths?

 

 

I don't know what the hell happened to Josh Sweat. Is his knee just finally gone? He fell off a cliff

31 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Defense deserves it's blame for sure but this is two weeks they have managed to keep the team in the game with timely red zone stops. They held the Falcons to 9 points for almost 3 entire quarters and the offense isn't building leads in that entire stretch. Same thing happened against the Packers. 

If you told me before the game ATL was going to score 22, I wouldn't have been impressed but I thought we would've won.  With a shortened game due to the strength of both offense's run game, you got to make every possession count.  Only getting 7pts on 4 possessions in the 1st half was not good.

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

I don't know what the hell happened to Josh Sweat. Is his knee just finally gone? He fell off a cliff

I literally said this same thing about an hour ago.  First 9 games last year he had 6.5 sacks. He has had 0 in his next 10 games and has fallen off the planet 

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Folks on here want to fire Sirianni because Kellen Moore calls a pass play on 3rd and 3, yet a lot of the same folks have no problem with Jalen Hurts floating another INT on a terrible throw into coverage, when what was needed was a mere 15 yards -- with 20+ seconds and timeouts left to do it.

Either Moore or Sirianni likely yelled at Hurts "could you at least try to throw to the white guy?", so Hurts peppers Covey with targets while still ignoring Goedert. 

it's not about one play. Siri has proven in the last 2 years that he makes bad decisions, has bad game plan and game day skills. The CEO Head Coach who doesn't call plays, who sets the culture and should be holding people accountable and making adjustments, isn't. We debated last year is it Brian Johnson or Siri? Nick said it's his offense. Then they hired Moore with a new offense to blend what he does and what the Eagles have done in the past. We know Siri wasn't even in the offensive meeting room most of the offseason, Moore said he would pop in at times.

Regardless, if the HEAD COACH doesn't like something, he should fix it. Make your OC call the plays you think would be better. Make the QB run things the way you think would be better. Hold your DC accountable for the pass rush and leaving guys WIDE OPEN in a 2 minute drill situation where they obviously needed to throw the ball downfield quickly.

People joke about the fan on the couch judging the decisions, the Monday Morning QB and all that. A lot of what we've seen from Siri are obvious things that should be fixable. Last season he watched the ship sink slowly and did nothing to change it.

Accountability starts with the head coach.

Yes, Hurts made a dumb throw on that INT. Yes, Barkley didn't catch that pass. There are always individual plays that don't go well. But in the big picture, Siri has a lot of issues.

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Howie still made mistakes in decisions both draft and free agency. But there were enough positive moves on defense along with hiring Fangio that the defense should not be this bad.

Jordan Davis started out playing well in his rookie year. Media and fans complained he wasn't getting enough snaps and that when he was off the field the run defense suffered. Fans were wanting more Jordan Davis. He's regressed. 

Jalen Carter started out great and people thought he was a lock for DPOY. Then he regressed.

Josh Sweat used to be a solid DE, then he regressed.

Reddick was a beast for a couple seasons, then he regressed.

Bradberry had a solid season, then he regressed.

Big Play Slay is now Darius, he's regressed. 

There's a pattern there. From Howie's perspective, he must be thinking hey I got these guys for you and they've all played well at first or shown flashes, what are you doing to coach them up or adjust the scheme to their strengths?

 

 

Something definitely isn't right. I agree they should be better. But this is over a year of a sample size now. If it's the scheme, that's on Howie and Lurie for hiring Fangio and wanting this scheme and that coach. If it's the players, that's still on Howie. Something has to change though. Either the players or the scheme. Because the only thing we know right now is this combination of the two isn't working. It's hard to get a better read on what is most to blame when we don't have data on these same guys in a different scheme.

Eagles need to get a TE of the future in here next year too. Goedert just ain't it. His breakout season isn't coming and he's almost 30. He'll probably be here next year because his contract has been tapped out with restructures but they need to have someone to groom for 2026.

1 hour ago, Diehardfan said:

Lurie isn't getting much of the blame he deserves today. He seems to like Vic's system. He brought Nick back and chose to waste another year.

Yeah. I wasnt sure if its Siri, or Howie/Lurie who are married to the Fangio defense. But whoever it is really has to move on from that idea. Its a failed concept in today's NFL.