2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

 

My reasoning for getting Bill is the team is an undisciplined mess. I'm not sure another young HC with no experience will be able to get it under control. Belichick has the cache to make the hard decisions and hold guys accountable. 

For instance -- Slay should be benched for Rodgers or Ringo. He's a headache and not playing well. A young coach may not have the balls to do it, but Bill would.

 

Banks must be really bad this year because he was actually solid last year

 

13 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

As much as I can't believe I am saying this, but this team....needs Bill Belichick. Say what you will about him, his teams are always prepared. No chance they dump Nick during the season, but absent a massive turnaround, I'd give Bill whatever he wants this offseason so long as Howie keeps personnel control. I'd try and convince him to keep Moore instead of hiring McDaniels, but the defense is all his. 

I dunno. I think Belichick would have to be a tear down/rebuild. The whole reason he got away with what he did in NE is because players bought in to the Belichick way (and they were winning). Remember Lane's comments about that? I think that would be the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction. I don't see everyone buying in to the extreme opposite of Sirianni, especially with the already lack of veteran leadership on the roster and presumably Graham/Slay/maybe Lane out the door next year. 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

 

My reasoning for getting Bill is the team is an undisciplined mess. I'm not sure another young HC with no experience will be able to get it under control. Belichick has the cache to make the hard decisions and hold guys accountable. 

For instance -- Slay should be benched for Rodgers or Ringo. He's a headache and not playing well. A young coach may not have the balls to do it, but Bill would.

 

He's looked fine to me, I don't think that data is accurate. And it doesn't help that all the CBs are playing with huge cushions. When he's been matched up one on one aside from the TD to Atlanta he's looked fine to me. Ringo I don't think will be any better. But also Slay is getting up there in age, any drop off is because of that, his attitude doesn't have anything to do with it, he's the same guy he's always been. People care way too much about this mentality stuff, it doesn't impact the game at all.

The only headache he's caused was the clip about CJGJ... who by the way is far of a bigger headache than Slay. And has played worse football. CJGJ mouths off on social media more than anyone. At least Slay isn't mean or nasty. People don't like Slay because "He's too nice and not mad enough about losing." That's a "Go outside and touch grass, you care too much about sports" take.

2 minutes ago, Joe Ball said:

The only way to really get the attention of a player in todays game is to fine them heavier, suspend them, or straight cut them. Unfortunately cutting a player now days is extremely difficult to do because of cap implications for most every team.

The NFLPA and the players have way too much control and have for some time now. I agree they should be compensated fairly based on their contributions and the amount of money the owners make, but along with the $ comes accountability. Too many players are worried about too many off the field endeavors these days, podcasts, social media, endorsements, etc. Some guys can handle that and get their job done, others need to have as few distractions as possible.

Pretty much everything stated in the above paragraph leads to a much poorer product on the field in a variety of ways. The discipline is slowly fading out of the game imo and the result is becoming acceptable...by the players, use to be the players were the ones holding the team accountable.

You send a message by benching someone. I am 100% onboard with benching Slay and starting Rodgers. Hell, deactivate Slay for the Browns game. 

Nick, if you're going down with the ship, at least go down swinging. 

5 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I'd also think about Vrabel. We have the talent. We need someone to hold these guys accountable.

Tbh i think vrabel is like a nhl coach. He’s gonna have a short shelf life as i think he rubs a lot of people the wrong way. M he’ll get accountability for a while but if things don’t go well i think guys will just tune him out.  

1 minute ago, Sack that QB said:

He's looked fine to me, I don't think that data is accurate. And it doesn't help that all the CBs are playing with huge cushions. When he's been matched up one on one aside from the TD to Atlanta he's looked fine to me. Ringo I don't think will be any better. But also Slay is getting up there in age, any drop off is because of that, his attitude doesn't have anything to do with it, he's the same guy he's always been. People care way too much about this mentality stuff, it doesn't impact the game at all.

The only headache he's caused was the clip about CJGJ... who by the way is far of a bigger headache than Slay. And has played worse football. CJGJ mouths off on social media more than anyone. At least Slay isn't mean or nasty. People don't like Slay because "He's too nice and not mad enough about losing." That's a "Go outside and touch grass, you care too much about sports" take.

I agree that those numbers surprised me, as I thought he had played better than that. But Nick needs to try something to get this teams attention. 

Bench CJGJ for Brown if he is ready. Or Sweat for Hunt. 

Lurie over-corrected from the Chip mistake by going from a power-hungry control freak to a first time head coach in Doug and then another first timer in Nick. It’s clear that they don’t want anyone who is going to rock the boat and want someone who can be essentially controlled internally. Harbaugh is not that guy which is why it was always a pipedream they would have gone with him after last year. And Belichick certainly isn’t that guy either. So unless if they’re swaying back to those types of coaches, which I doubt, they’ll continue going with puppets who can be controlled like Nick. 

I’m not even kidding - if things don’t work out with Sirianni I wouldn’t mind seeing Jeff Stoutland promoted to head coach.

The guy is a brain - likely one of the best overall leaders on the team - he doesn’t play games and gets it done.

He would have the entire offensive line back him up 100% in and out of the locker room - the man would command the respect of the entire team.

The guy is a leader of men and would be my pick.  

Hopefully it doesn’t get to that point and Sirianni and the rest get it turned around -  but if that doesn’t happen, starting him off as interim coach and seeing what happens from there may not be a bad idea.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I dunno. I think Belichick would have to be a tear down/rebuild. The whole reason he got away with what he did in NE is because players bought in to the Belichick way (and they were winning). Remember Lane's comments about that? I think that would be the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction. I don't see everyone buying in to the extreme opposite of Sirianni, especially with the already lack of veteran leadership on the roster and presumably Graham/Slay/maybe Lane out the door next year. 

I would also add on into this I don’t think the accountability with the patriots was just Bill Belichick. I think a lot of those players respected the hell out of Tom Brady and Tom Brady held those players to an even higher level as he wanted to win and didn’t put up with crap. Because after Tom Brady left, how many of us were saying man, the patriots look real accountable out there? Last year there were games where they look like they just didn’t show up (saints and cowboys). I get they were bad but they were games where they it look like they took the week off.

13 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

 

My reasoning for getting Bill is the team is an undisciplined mess. I'm not sure another young HC with no experience will be able to get it under control. Belichick has the cache to make the hard decisions and hold guys accountable. 

For instance -- Slay should be benched for Rodgers or Ringo. He's a headache and not playing well. A young coach may not have the balls to do it, but Bill would.

 

Then you go get Vrabel. Billy B is gonna want say in the front office. Jags can give that to him, where Howie ain't going to the basement again. 

7 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

He's looked fine to me, I don't think that data is accurate. And it doesn't help that all the CBs are playing with huge cushions. When he's been matched up one on one aside from the TD to Atlanta he's looked fine to me. Ringo I don't think will be any better. But also Slay is getting up there in age, any drop off is because of that, his attitude doesn't have anything to do with it, he's the same guy he's always been. People care way too much about this mentality stuff, it doesn't impact the game at all.

The only headache he's caused was the clip about CJGJ... who by the way is far of a bigger headache than Slay. And has played worse football. CJGJ mouths off on social media more than anyone. At least Slay isn't mean or nasty. People don't like Slay because "He's too nice and not mad enough about losing." That's a "Go outside and touch grass, you care too much about sports" take.

That’s cause CJGJ needs to be playing slot corner and not safety. 

7 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I agree that those numbers surprised me, as I thought he had played better than that. But Nick needs to try something to get this teams attention. 

Bench CJGJ for Brown if he is ready. Or Sweat for Hunt. 

I don't think attitude, focus, mentality, attention has anything to do with the struggles. I think they aren't put in positions to succeed and some of the players just aren't very good. They went into Tampa with the absolute worst game plan possible, the coach didn't adjust, and Tampa did well to expose their flaws. Get bad tacklers matched up in the open field against guys who can make defenders miss, and there you go.

If anyone should be held accountable, it's Fangio. If I were Sirianni I would have tore him a new a-hole after Sunday. His coaching was an embarrassment, and overall through 4 games he's been awful.

This is why I wanted them to sign Justin Simmons. Said it all offseason, he'd look nice now wouldn't he? But alas, they can't bench CJGJ because they have no depth. Brown is coming off an ACL, you can't just throw him in as a starter coming off that injury. Maybe bench Dean for BVS? Again, no real options there. That's on Howie for skimping at LB.

The reality is Howie's awful job addressing the defense gave them so very few alternatives and Fangio has been awful. I'd focus on those two things first before I get to the mentality of individual defenders and trying to wake them up.

56 minutes ago, NOTW said:

You're right. It's after a bad loss, and the optics are not good.

It's one thing to chuckle at it and then say something positive about him like "That's just pre-game getting hyped, everyone gets motivated in different ways. He always brings energy and trash talk, I love his swagger" and then follow up with "we didn't play well and lost, we all as a team have to play better." Just leave it at that. 

He was laughing his ass off too much. And now we've seen CJGJ's response, you know they're going to have words.

This is also where CEO of Culture Nick Sirianni should step in with all these guys. But we know he won't. He didn't last year, and this is a continuation.

Do you remember his stuff from last year?  The defense was bad and he continually would defend his own play and just push the rest of the team under the bus.  He's not a 'team first' guy.  He's a 'me first' guy.  

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

That’s cause CJGJ needs to be playing slot corner and not safety. 

I think the defense badly misses Dennard Wilson. It's looking more and more like he was the main catalyst behind the 2022 defense. The secondary hasn't been the same since he left, and he did great things in Baltimore and has the Titans defense playing sound for the talent they have.

12 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

You send a message by benching someone. I am 100% onboard with benching Slay and starting Rodgers. Hell, deactivate Slay for the Browns game. 

Nick, if you're going down with the ship, at least go down swinging. 

F Rodgers. Kid is a bonafide moron. Let Ringo get the snaps.

5 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Then you go get Vrabel. Billy B is gonna want say in the front office. Jags can give that to him, where Howie ain't going to the basement again. 

I'd be happy with Vrabel. He got a raw deal in TN in my opinion. Pair him with an up and coming, innovative OC.

7 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

I’m not even kidding - if things don’t work out with Sirianni I wouldn’t mind seeing Jeff Stoutland promoted to head coach.

The guy is a brain - likely one of the best overall leaders on the team - he doesn’t play games and gets it done.

He would have the entire offensive line back him up 100% in and out of the locker room - the man would command respect by the entire team.

 

The guy is a leader of men and would be my pick.  It’s a long shot but at this point, what does this organization have to lose? 

That's ridiculous.

Everyone knows the career path for OL Coach is to go to Defensive Coordinator.

3 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't think attitude, focus, mentality, attention has anything to do with the struggles. I think they aren't put in positions to succeed and some of the players just aren't very good. They went into Tampa with the absolute worst game plan possible, the coach didn't adjust, and Tampa did well to expose their flaws. Get bad tacklers matched up in the open field against guys who can make defenders miss, and there you go.

If anyone should be held accountable, it's Fangio. If I were Sirianni I would have tore him a new a-hole after Sunday. His coaching was an embarrassment, and overall through 4 games he's been awful.

This is why I wanted them to sign Justin Simmons. Said it all offseason, he'd look nice now wouldn't he? But alas, they can't bench CJGJ because they have no depth. Brown is coming off an ACL, you can't just throw him in as a starter coming off that injury. Maybe bench Dean for BVS? Again, no real options there. That's on Howie for skimping at LB.

The reality is Howie's awful job addressing the defense gave them so very few alternatives and Fangio has been awful. I'd focus on those two things first before I get to the mentality of individual defenders and trying to wake them up.

I don't think it's the talent. Not tackling well is coaching and effort. Having CBs 10 yards off on a team that specializes in the quick passing game is idiotic. But the missed tackles, missed assignments, etc. are due to guys not being held accountable, IMO. 

And Nick is in no position to tear Fangio a new one, as apparently Fangio doesn't even really answer to Nick or talk to him. I agree Fangio has been a debacle, but if he has no respect for the HC, then he will continue to run amuck. 

48 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Yea, I can kinda see now where the guys in Miami were coming from. Devin White also gave some curious quotes about Fangio. Paraphrasing but it was basically "Did Vic tell you that you were beat out for Nakobe?" "No, I haven't talked to Vic." "Did Vic tell you what you need to do to improve to earn playing time?" "No." "Nick says you have a role going forward and they are going to need you, did they describe to you what that role was?" "You're going to have to ask them".

It's kinda clear communication is missing on defense. 

Also being in the booth doesn't help that. I have no idea if it makes any strategical difference at all between field and booth, but if he's going to be holed up in there then he's going to miss stuff like knowing what's going on with his players. 

Is it the responsibility of the DC to explain to the player why they are not the starter, etc. Or is it the responsibility of the position coach to do that communication?  I don't know how things work in the NFL... but the direct line of the chain of command would go from DC to position coach to player, so to me there's nothing damning in the DC not being the one to convey these messages.  Granted, he could, but I think that's the job of the position coach to communicate.  Further, it might have been communicated from the position coach or the ST coach regarding him playing ST... but since he seems bent out of shape, and since the question was specific to Fangio and Sirianni, he might have taken the opportunity to answer that specifically and omit any other communication he had from other sources.   

This isn't to say that Fangio and/or Sirianni couldn't improve communication... but I don't know that it HAS to be as damning as White is portraying it.

All this talk about the next coach and siranni is still employed. Hate to break it to everyone, if he makes the playoffs they’re not firing him and we’re stuck with that clown another year, wasting more prime years of our best players 

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Do you remember his stuff from last year?  The defense was bad and he continually would defend his own play and just push the rest of the team under the bus.  He's not a 'team first' guy.  He's a 'me first' guy.  

Yup. And he used his energy to argue with reporters on Twitter about being called Darius, instead of focusing on winning games.

19 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

You send a message by benching someone. I am 100% onboard with benching Slay and starting Rodgers. Hell, deactivate Slay for the Browns game. 

Nick, if you're going down with the ship, at least go down swinging. 

I am NOT on board with starting Rodgers.   The same moron that doesn't know its not a good idea to push a defender into his punt returner?   Nah.   I'd be happier with 10 on the field for a play than for it to be Rodgers stepping in for Slay.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I don't think it's the talent. Not tackling well is coaching and effort. Having CBs 10 yards off on a team that specializes in the quick passing game is idiotic. But the missed tackles, missed assignments, etc. are due to guys not being held accountable, IMO. 

And Nick is in no position to tear Fangio a new one, as apparently Fangio doesn't even really answer to Nick or talk to him. I agree Fangio has been a debacle, but if he has no respect for the HC, then he will continue to run amuck. 

I think when we think about missed tackles we think about technique. Wrapping up, etc. But it depends on how you missed the tackle. Going back on the games this season I think the main cause of the missed tackles is the awful position the defenders are in. They're out of position so they're trying to fly in from bad angles to make tackles. You're just begging to miss tackles when you play defense like this. Soft coverages, everyone playing off. Watching games all weekend, it's so much easier to tackle when a RB gets the ball on a swing pass and there's a LB right there on him than it is if a LB or safety has to fly in from 7 yards out of the play and launch at full speed.

I really think Fangio's scheme is leading to many of these missed tackles. And in general several players on defense have a poor sense of what angles to take to the football.

Of all the bad plays on Sunday, Avonte Maddox's whiff was the worst play of the game.

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Yup. And he used his energy to argue with reporters on Twitter about being called Darius, instead of focusing on winning games.

How dare they call him by his name?!  

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Couple things, I actually think Belichick is going to wind up with the giants. I think that’s where he ultimately wants to be because he kind of started his whole career there. he has a lot of respect for the Giants. I think defensively they actually have a lot of pieces that you could make a good defense. Burns, Lawrence, Thibs and Banks. Add on have Nabers and Thomas. They are going to be bad. If they get a QB on a rookie deal and it’s who belichick wants they have money to make the team much better around him.

Also, I am not sold that the Eagles would go after Belichick over somebody like Ben Johnson. Lurie hasn’t hired a defense coach since Ray Rhodes. I get belichick has a pedigree and he’s from the patriots. But I tend to think Lurie believes offense is the name of the game and wants his next HC to be an offensive mastermind like Reid. I tend to think he would lean to Ben Johnson candidate or an offense of mind like that. That said i don’t know if Ben Johnson wants to come here because I think he goes to the place where he believes in the Wb or can pick his own Qb 

Hiring Belichick would be a huge departure from how they have operated.  The closest analogy is probably when they hired Chip Kelly.  My guess is the way they would consider it is if Kellen Moore stays as the OC.  The problems with Ben Johnson are going to be timing and that he's every team's top choice.  He's going to be interviewing for the early vacancies. Aside from Chip Kelly, the Eagles have not been super quick in their HC hires.  He also would be going to a team where the expectations will be very high right from the start.  I don't think those high expectations would faze Belichick.  

The problem with the Giants is going to be QB.  Is Belichick going to think he can win with a rookie QB.  If his only concern is setting the NFL record for wins and solidifying his HOF candidacy, do the Giants give him the best shot over the next 3 seasons.  He's 72.  I doubt he plans on coaching for 5 more years.  

6 minutes ago, Eriv20 said:

All this talk about the next coach and siranni is still employed. Hate to break it to everyone, if he makes the playoffs they’re not firing him and we’re stuck with that clown another year, wasting more prime years of our best players 

If they get it turned around and make a decent playoff push then a lot of this "goes away”.  
 

Heck, if they come out on fire and win 3-4 in a row and play hard after the bye week, a lot of this will go away.