51 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

Can the Jets even make a trade for him?  They don't have a lot of ammo, other than maybe Hassan Reddick.  Adams could fit under their cap, though.

11 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

"Hurts doesn't like to throw over the middle" doesn't work as an answer,

He doesn't, though

43 minutes ago, Joe Ball said:

Please no...for several reasons. Remaining contract and age being the biggest. Not to mention the lack of cap room over the next two years since the Dak contract debacle, I just don't see how DAL could possibly make this happen without a restructure of his remaining years...and they still need to attempt to extend Parsons, which I am not certain they can do without even factoring in this potential trade. I mean I am sure they could try and make it work, but at what cost and hamstringing the roster/cap for years. IDK. Maybe I am not understanding Adams' remaining contract hit. DAL has bigger issues to resolve and whomever they try to replace McC with will be stuck for a while with the results of these decisions, again IDK, but I don't think this would be a good move for DAL. 

With the remaining contract how does anyone afford Adams? What am I missing? Cap hits of 44 and 45 million?

 

Spotrac lists a potential out after this season, with a $16mil dead cap.  So, those 2025 and 2026 numbers are pure fantasy, designed to increase the AAV of his contract without actually paying him more money.  Nobody is paying him that.  So, in essence, this would be a trade for the rest of this season and the team he is traded to would have to release him and take that $16mil dead cap next season.

15 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Hurts sucked Sunday, but the offensive scheme and play calling was bad too. You came into this season hoping at least one of those two things would be vastly improved. So far, neither have been.

Why do they keep running verticals on 3rd down? They did it again Sunday. And no, the "Hurts doesn't like to throw over the middle" doesn't work as an answer, because running verticals hasn't worked either. Can't even use it as a "They're sticking with what works" rebuttal. How they reflected on last year and decided "Let's run a lot of the same stuff" is an utter indictment on the whole operation all the way up to Lurie.

I hear you, but we are at year 4 of him not throwing over the middle... so what reason is there beyond that?  

13 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Being the best edge rusher on the team and being a good edge rusher are two different things.

He should have retired by now.  I get that he is energetic and loves this, but it’s time.

Graham was one of the guys out there hustling when I saw them live.

This team went from leading the league in sacks just a few years ago with both Sweat and Graham (among others) to barely any pass rush now. 

That would point to scheme vs anything else, imo. 

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I hear you, but we are at year 4 of him not throwing over the middle... so what reason is there beyond that?  

Impossible to say from our perspective. We can speculate, but that's all it is. I mean the Eagles essentially won a game against the Saints with a throw over the middle to Goedert. Maybe they aren't his preferred throws, but he's not allergic to throwing them either.

9 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Spotrac lists a potential out after this season, with a $16mil dead cap.  So, those 2025 and 2026 numbers are pure fantasy, designed to increase the AAV of his contract without actually paying him more money.  Nobody is paying him that.  So, in essence, this would be a trade for the rest of this season and the team he is traded to would have to release him and take that $16mil dead cap next season.

That $16M stays with the Raiders. There is no guarantees the new team would be responsible for. 

3 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Graham was one of the guys out there hustling when I saw them live.

This team went from leading the league in sacks just a few years ago with both Sweat and Graham (among others) to barely any pass rush now. 

That would point to scheme vs anything else, imo. 

Reddick led the league that year... and he's gone.  Hargrave put up big numbers that year.  He's gone.   Cox contributed to that number.  He's gone.

Reddick 16 sacks
Hargrave 11 sacks
Cox 7 sacks

Graham 11 sacks
Sweat 11 sacks

And Graham is now 2 years older - he was towards the end back then.   And Sweat's knees have always been a ticking time bomb - which is why he lasted in the draft as long as he did.  And his knees have played another 2 years of football, so they might be shot as well.

 

Do you really think its scheme and not talent?    It's basically the same scheme... Gannon ran a Fangio style.   They replaced Reddick with Huff.  Big swing and a miss.  They've replaced Cox and Hargrave with Carter and Davis.  Carter can be a massive disruptor, but we've only seen it in brief moments.   Davis is a space eater, not a pass rusher.  

57 minutes ago, Joe Ball said:

Please no...for several reasons. Remaining contract and age being the biggest. Not to mention the lack of cap room over the next two years since the Dak contract debacle, I just don't see how DAL could possibly make this happen without a restructure of his remaining years...and they still need to attempt to extend Parsons, which I am not certain they can do without even factoring in this potential trade. I mean I am sure they could try and make it work, but at what cost and hamstringing the roster/cap for years. IDK. Maybe I am not understanding Adams' remaining contract hit. DAL has bigger issues to resolve and whomever they try to replace McC with will be stuck for a while with the results of these decisions, again IDK, but I don't think this would be a good move for DAL. 

With the remaining contract how does anyone afford Adams? What am I missing? Cap hits of 44 and 45 million?

 

The team that will get Adams is only responsible for the base salary and the smaller workout and roster bonuses of $510k and $100k. So it would really be approx. cap hits of $36M and $37M. Nothing left is guaranteed though so teams would never carry those cap hits. They could either restructure the contract and turn the base salary into a signing bonus and spread it over 5 years to bring the cap hit down or they can sign him to an extension and basically write the contract how they want. Or they can simply trade/release him without consequences. Either way, no team is going to just leave it as is. 

3 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Spotrac lists a potential out after this season, with a $16mil dead cap.  So, those 2025 and 2026 numbers are pure fantasy, designed to increase the AAV of his contract without actually paying him more money.  Nobody is paying him that.  So, in essence, this would be a trade for the rest of this season and the team he is traded to would have to release him and take that $16mil dead cap next season.

So the acquiring team would pay 75% (whats left of the year) of this years cap hit, which is roughly 12m + the 16m dead money and get him for 12 games plus playoffs for 28m...that is more palatable but still not something I would do, especially without future control. 

7 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Impossible to say from our perspective. We can speculate, but that's all it is. I mean the Eagles essentially won a game against the Saints with a throw over the middle to Goedert. Maybe they aren't his preferred throws, but he's not allergic to throwing them either.

Now there's an endorsement!

"Guys he did it this one time..."

I'm only busting your chops

10 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Impossible to say from our perspective. We can speculate, but that's all it is. I mean the Eagles essentially won a game against the Saints with a throw over the middle to Goedert. Maybe they aren't his preferred throws, but he's not allergic to throwing them either.

You sure he's not.   That was a desperation moment.  AND... where was Goedert when he caught the pass?   He wasn't 'over the middle', but the time Goedert caught the ball, he was nearer to the numbers than the hash, IIRC.   So, while it was a 'crossing' route, it wasn't 'over the middle'.   On the throw chart, it would be about the 1/3 the width of the field.

4 minutes ago, Joe Ball said:

So the acquiring team would pay 75% (whats left of the year) of this years cap hit, which is roughly 12m + the 16m dead money and get him for 12 games plus playoffs for 28m...that is more palatable but still not something I would do, especially without future control. 

It would be just the $12ish million. No dead money.

Also, it could even be less. The Raiders can basically buy draft picks by picking up the majority of that $12M. In theory, it's possible to get Adams for almost vet minimum. However, obviously that's going to be offset with more trade capital. 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You sure he's not.   That was a desperation moment.  AND... where was Goedert when he caught the pass?   He wasn't 'over the middle', but the time Goedert caught the ball, he was nearer to the numbers than the hash, IIRC.   So, while it was a 'crossing' route, it wasn't 'over the middle'.   On the throw chart, it would be about the 1/3 the width of the field.

I actually think he's been pretty accurate throwing the ball over the middle. It's those throws to the sideline he tries to force in that scare the hell out of me. It isn't like over the middle he's throwing behind receivers and throwing balls in the dirt. Off the top of my head he seems to throw a pretty good ball to that part of the field. So if he's not comfortable with it for whatever reason, the coaches need to nut up and run plays that force him to do it where he has no choice.

34 minutes ago, just relax said:

I don’t see much whining here of late. I do see a lot of anger and frustration, which I share.

Do you only consider it whining if there are complaints and the team wins? Because it's the same since week 1

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You sure he's not.   That was a desperation moment.  AND... where was Goedert when he caught the pass?   He wasn't 'over the middle', but the time Goedert caught the ball, he was nearer to the numbers than the hash, IIRC.   So, while it was a 'crossing' route, it wasn't 'over the middle'.   On the throw chart, it would be about the 1/3 the width of the field.

Helps that Goedert was wide open too.

2 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

What bothers me the most at 6am these days is the Eagles feel like a team that doesn't hate to lose.  A competitive fire that isn't always burning.

It is a combination of the personalities of the players and the cohesiveness of the entire organization.   This is a broken organization.  It is not together.  Lurie has to be the CEO and make changes.

Two options I like to replace Howie: Eric Adams or Ray Agnew.

Options for Head coach: 

Al Harris, Bobby Slowik. Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn.

You're right.

After the mess and disappointment of last season, they should have come out this season focused, prepared and have a chip on their shoulder.

They are still not tackling, lacking fundamentals, clowning on social media, starting slow, not playing tough, laughing after losses, not making adjustments or making necessary changes, not sending messages by benching players or chewing them out. Remember the underdog mentality leading up to the Super Bowl?

2 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Helps that Goedert was wide open too.

And the primary read.

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Do you really think its scheme and not talent?    It's basically the same scheme... Gannon ran a Fangio style.   They replaced Reddick with Huff.  Big swing and a miss.  They've replaced Cox and Hargrave with Carter and Davis.  Carter can be a massive disruptor, but we've only seen it in brief moments.   Davis is a space eater, not a pass rusher.  

I'll add this: we played a ton of backup QBs/bad offenses in 2022.

10 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It would be just the $12ish million. No dead money.

Also, it could even be less. The Raiders can basically buy draft picks by picking up the majority of that $12M. In theory, it's possible to get Adams for almost vet minimum. However, obviously that's going to be offset with more trade capital. 

Your knowledge is why you are the LeanMeanGM...thanks for explaining.

49 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Reddick led the league that year... and he's gone.  Hargrave put up big numbers that year.  He's gone.   Cox contributed to that number.  He's gone.

Reddick 16 sacks
Hargrave 11 sacks
Cox 7 sacks

Graham 11 sacks
Sweat 11 sacks

And Graham is now 2 years older - he was towards the end back then.   And Sweat's knees have always been a ticking time bomb - which is why he lasted in the draft as long as he did.  And his knees have played another 2 years of football, so they might be shot as well.

 

Do you really think its scheme and not talent?    It's basically the same scheme... Gannon ran a Fangio style.   They replaced Reddick with Huff.  Big swing and a miss.  They've replaced Cox and Hargrave with Carter and Davis.  Carter can be a massive disruptor, but we've only seen it in brief moments.   Davis is a space eater, not a pass rusher.  

I think it’s both. I think the scheme is outdated and had issues even when Gannon was here against better QBs.  gannon was here and the defense had issues when they faced good QBs. Shanahan allowing his back up tight end to block Reddick and get his Qb injured was about the only good Qb the eagles shutdown that year outside of cousins (Lawrence and Murray are middle tier QBs and neither were playing well when we faced them). Mahomes, Dak, Goff and Rodgers/love all put up 30+ on them. The two QBs they had success against that year that were good were cousins, purdy (he got knocked out due to Shanahan having backup tight ends trying to block Reddick) .  Kapadia went into the data, it showed it was some of Patrick Mahomes best games (per EPA) of his career. 

i do think they have a talent problem along the defensive line. Sweat isn’t what he was. Graham is older. Carter hasn’t played with consistency and Davis has never really developed his pass rush. They also have significantly worse linebackers than 2022

However, I just don’t think this scheme is as good as it was few years ago. I mentioned this somebody had the tweets from last year where  everybody who ran the Fangio scheme was bottom third in the league in defense (EPA and there were a lot of analytics showing it was a bottom half of the league scheme). The only team that was top half of the league in EPA was Dolphins and they were 15th in the league. And even the dolphins in most of the games were they face better quarterbacks got lit up.

I think there was a reason why Joe Banner had a tweet about not having the DC to stop the pass against good teams.

i’ll reiterate I think they have a personnel problem and a scheme problem. I said the same thing last year when everybody wanted Sean Desai fired and it couldn’t get worse. Desai wasn’t a great coach, they had poor personnel/guys regressing and the system around the league wasn’t all that effective based on the analytics 

30 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Reddick led the league that year... and he's gone.  Hargrave put up big numbers that year.  He's gone.   Cox contributed to that number.  He's gone.

Reddick 16 sacks
Hargrave 11 sacks
Cox 7 sacks

Graham 11 sacks
Sweat 11 sacks

And Graham is now 2 years older - he was towards the end back then.   And Sweat's knees have always been a ticking time bomb - which is why he lasted in the draft as long as he did.  And his knees have played another 2 years of football, so they might be shot as well.

 

Do you really think it’s scheme and not talent?    It's basically the same scheme... Gannon ran a Fangio style.   They replaced Reddick with Huff.  Big swing and a miss.  They've replaced Cox and Hargrave with Carter and Davis.  Carter can be a massive disruptor, but we've only seen it in brief moments.   Davis is a space eater, not a pass rusher.  

On an "aggressive” scale between 1-10

Gannon was around a 8.5

Fangio has been a 3 at best.  
 

Regardless of "similar scheme” you need to be able to apply pressure and risk being aggressive at times within a similar scheme - Gannon was aggressive and often.   Fangio is rarely aggressive and plays the "bend don’t break” style much more often.

 

That said, of course our guys are getting older but Sweat is still within his prime and I believe Carter has just as much potential as Cox and Hargrave if used properly (they need to figure out a way to get him off double teams).  He runs amok and creates havoc anytime he’s not double teamed - that can be schemed.

 

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Joe Ball said:

So the acquiring team would pay 75% (whats left of the year) of this years cap hit, which is roughly 12m + the 16m dead money and get him for 12 games plus playoffs for 28m...that is more palatable but still not something I would do, especially without future control. 

Raiders are certainly asking for at least a 1st round pick for Adams and that's steep for a 1 year rental.  You have to assume whoever trades for him would rip up his contract and extend him, but he's not exactly young, so... ?

 

4 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Raiders are certainly asking for at least a 1st round pick for Adams and that's steep for a 1 year rental.  You have to assume whoever trades for him would rip up his contract and extend him, but he's not exactly young, so... ?

 

I could see Jets wanting that 1 year

That guy Syed who goes on the Philly Special pod with Sheil said he thinks going over the film he'd put more blame on the players(Howie?) than Fangio. He said there were plays to be made, guys were missing tackles, taking bad angles to the ball, etc. Not sure I agree, and I've seen others put more on Fangio so it's just one opinion.