15 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Counterpoint -- The Giants ran 55 plays, and 37 were passes. Only 18 were runs. Pretty imbalanced.

I conceded that in the post.  But, if he's completely useless against the pass... then he's not worthy of a first round pick, and definitely not worth trading up for.  Pretty one dimensional.  

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Yikes

 

 

Graham vs. Naber’s… the matchup we all expected 

 

17 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I think he's more Russell Wilson. Throws a great deep ball and has mobility, but lacks elite arm strength. Overall he makes good decisions and generally wins you a lot of football games, but will never be a tom brady or patrick mahomes. 

I disagree with you on Wilson's arm strength.   His arm strength is why he has been able to throw on the run from weird platforms for all those years.  Throwing off a weird platform is where you find out about real arm strength, because those throws are all arm.     Hurts, on the other hand, really struggles with throws on the run, because he doesn't have that level of arm strength.

 

As for the 'decision making'... sorry.  Hurts' decision making isn't nearly good enough, which is why his turnovers have gotten out of hand in recent years.  He's slow to recognize things and slow to pull the trigger.   "He" doesn't win you a lot of football games, the talent level of the surrounding cast is a huge factor in that, including his security blanket WR - AJ Brown.

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I conceded that in the post.  But, if he's completely useless against the pass... then he's not worthy of a first round pick, and definitely not worth trading up for.  Pretty one dimensional.  

He's still useful but we aren't getting the ROI we should be getting given the draft capital we used on him.

15 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Eventually, they are going to leak VanSumeren into the flat in the red zone for a TD.

He is taller than Saquon, so maybe he'll be seen out there.

43 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

Its more like saying the only way you can score a run is a HR. While you can score that way, its not sustainable and will not be a winning formula when it comes playoff time.

In no way am I saying big plays are bad or that we shouldn't try. My concern is around the fact the offense was completely inept unless it hit on a big play against the giants of all teams.

The Eagles offense is distilled down to hoping Hurts doesn't turn the ball over, hoping to hit 40+ yard plays, get inside the 10 and tush push your way in.

You're acting like the Eagles dialed up a bunch of bombs yesterday.  A bunch of the big plays were runs.  

When you can open enormous running lanes against a good DL, that's as consistent and dependable as an offense can get.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

He's still useful but we aren't getting the ROI we should be getting given the draft capital we used on him.

It's a sunk cost now... so is he worth the 5yr option, probably not, right.  Is he useful in a rotation, likely yes, but at the right price.

37 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

OK, I woke up and chose violence. 

Hurts is reminding me of...Donovan McNabb. There are plays that drive you nuts, and then plays that simply amaze you. The difference is, I think Hurts is clearly more dedicated to improving than McNabb ever was, but McNabb was clearly more physically gifted. And to be clear, I am a McNabb fan.

6 games in to a new offense, we are seeing improvement. Hopefully it continues. 

I think the biggest difference is he’s just not turning the ball over. When you don’t turn the ball over, the offense loaded with talent has a chance to have a lot of success. Now there’s still times where he’s holding the ball sometimes for way too long and need to just get rid of it and throw it away; live to see another day.

But the last 2 weeks he had zero turnovers and no fumbles. Now the offense didn’t look great against the Browns. but the browns besides that Dallas (offense anlso contributed to that disaster) and commanders game, has played really well defensive. On top of all of it their offense really screws their defense with field position constantly.

When you don’t turn the ball over the Eagles because of how talented they are on offense have a chance to be explosive and score a lot of points. When you’re consistently turning the ball over, fumbling the ball and not taking care of it you the inconsistencies they had prior to the bye week.

3 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

It's a sunk cost now... so is he worth the 5yr option, probably not, right.  Is he useful in a rotation, likely yes, but at the right price.

For sure.  Moving forward, we need to pay him what he is worth or let him walk.

17 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Yikes

Maybe he should have gotten a massage before the game.

7 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

He is taller than Saquon, so maybe he'll be seen out there.

Maybe get F’ing DeVonta and Dotson involved instead of our backup LB. That might work better. 

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm still stuck on the formation and defensive alignment should have alerted Hurts to the flat, IMO.  Once the outside guy followed the TEs inside, the flat became a wide open space.  Read one guy, and throw it to the guy that's not getting followed.   It's one of those pre-snap type decisions where the defensive look sort of tells you where the ball should go before the snap.   I thought that was the best option pre-snap... and the way it turned out, it absolutely was.   My eyes were glued on Barkley that play, expecting that he'd be the target.    🤷‍♂️

But that's just not the progression here. It would be very odd for a wheel route to be the primary read when you're 5 yards away from the goal line. So what exactly are you seeing in the defensive alighment pre-snap that tells you to abandon the called progression and make the wheel the primary read instead? They're even giving a man alignment cover-0 look with the DB off the LOS, so the wheel wouldn't even be where he'd throw hot and I'm not seeing anything else here that would force that kind of deviation.

23 minutes ago, NOTW said:

We knew drafting Davis was a gamble, they admitted that. He never played all the downs in college and conditioning was a known issue. That's easier to accept as a late 1st, or 2nd rounder. But they traded up for him, and included two additional picks. So you expect more. On the season, he's at 43% snaps. Milton Williams is at 46% and Ojomo 33%.

But if they can make the formula work it's fine as long as the team is performing. I can't see giving him a 2nd contract though, unless like a Barnett situation where he gets paid like a rotational player.

You just compared him to a 3rd round pick and a UDFA.   That's not good enough from a mid-first round pick.

As for the Eagles acknowledging that it was a gamble when making the selection is in no way a redeeming factor.  They gambled, and it seems they lost... or at least, their ROI isn't good enough.

His cost in the draft isn't important, in terms of on field decision making now.  BUT, it is important in terms of evaluating the draft and the thought processes going into it.  Just as the video of Donahue being pissed about losing on Alim McNeil and landing Milton Williams factors in to that process.  And sadly, from a utilization purpose, this team essentially needs both Davis and Williams to provide what the Lions are getting from just McNeil.    It makes you wonder... what accountability has happened within the scouting department and front office to correct for future drafts?

15 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

He's still useful but we aren't getting the ROI we should be getting given the draft capital we used on him.

Also conceded.

Saving the season baby!

 

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

But that's just not the progression here. It would be very odd for a wheel route to be the primary read when you're 5 yards away from the goal line. So what exactly are you seeing in the defensive alighment pre-snap that tells you to abandon the called progression and make the wheel the primary read instead? They're even giving a man alignment cover-0 look with the DB off the LOS, so the wheel wouldn't even be where he'd throw hot and I'm not seeing anything else here that would force that kind of deviation.

I did the math.  3 receivers to the left.   And I saw a DB outside, LB inside and the safety over the ball.  

So, the read for me was the outside guy.  If he moved inside, then its a race between the LB and Barkley to the pylon.  That LB also moved inside with the TE, so it became a footrace between the Safety and Barkley to the pylon.   The safety had no shot on a quick toss.

 One the offensive right side, I saw 3, maybe 4 defenders (depending if the standup LB dropped or not) going against 2 receivers.   So, my eyes said the top of the screen was where the mismatch was.  

 

Like I said, it has a lot to do with the pre-snap and knowing who to look at.  If Hurts looks at the two guys outside at the top, when they move inside, he doesn't even need to see Barkley to make the throw... just put it out to the pylon with some air and let Barkley run under it.

 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Saving the season baby!

 

Just in time to watch his QB eat his own boogers on the sidelines

 

 

I'll say one criticism of Hurts and then will wait until next week.

If you were to subtract QB and rank the 32 best 10 man non-QB offenses in the NFL...

The Eagles are #1.  Who is #2 and how big is the gap?  Miami?

We have the #17 scoring offense in the NFL.  What does that say about the QB?  It's going to make everyone wonder what this offense would look like with a different QB and what this QB would look like with a different offense.

34 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm still stuck on the formation and defensive alignment should have alerted Hurts to the flat, IMO.  Once the outside guy followed the TEs inside, the flat became a wide open space.  Read one guy, and throw it to the guy that's not getting followed.   It's one of those pre-snap type decisions where the defensive look sort of tells you where the ball should go before the snap.   I thought that was the best option pre-snap... and the way it turned out, it absolutely was.   My eyes were glued on Barkley that play, expecting that he'd be the target.    🤷‍♂️

I think this might be one of those Dick Vermeil "you think you know, but you don't know...and you never will" moments.

I agree it looked totally obvious.  The tough part is that Saquon was the only route on that side of the field, so if the Giants defended it properly, the play was dead.  No way Hurts could have made it all the way back to the other side of the field in the red zone, it would make for an extremely risky throw.

They may want to look at tweaking that play in the future though, no doubt.

47 minutes ago, NOTW said:

We knew drafting Davis was a gamble, they admitted that. He never played all the downs in college and conditioning was a known issue. That's easier to accept as a late 1st, or 2nd rounder. But they traded up for him, and included two additional picks. So you expect more. On the season, he's at 43% snaps. Milton Williams is at 46% and Ojomo 33%.

But if they can make the formula work it's fine as long as the team is performing. I can't see giving him a 2nd contract though, unless like a Barnett situation where he gets paid like a rotational player.

Milton and Ojomo are seeing some snaps at 3/4 DE so the stats you cite are a bit misleading.  Frankly, Davis needs to learn how to crouch better.  He gets a little too upright at times.  Hurtt can clean that up.  

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Ben VanSumeren 

Jordan Davis  

 

Damn, 12 snaps. My hate for that pick is growing every week.

 

I know what I need.

 

Here's the weird place we are in with QBs in the NFL. There are basically only 4 elite guys, and they are all in the AFC. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Lamar. And we may have to start a conversation about Mahomes turnovers and production soon...(joking). After that, there are a few different groups. The rookies -- Williams, Daniels, Maye and Nix. The bums -- Watson, Richardson (yeah, I'm done with him), Levis, Lawrence (he's a bust), Minshew/O'Connell, D. Jones, Dalton. The IR guy -- Tua. Then there's a large group of guys who are basically solid starters -- this is where Hurts fits in. Rodgers, Wilson, Stroud, Herbert, Hurts, Prescott, Goff, Love, Darnold, Mayfield, Cousins, Carr, Murray, Stafford, Purdy, Geno. I'd take Hurts over most of those guys, but it's all tightly packed. I know some people want to elevate guys like Stroud and Love, but they honestly have both regressed this year: Stroud 94.9 rating, Love 94.1, Hurts 94.4. It doesn't feel like any of these guys will reach the elite level, IMO. 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I did the math.  3 receivers to the left.   And I saw a DB outside, LB inside and the safety over the ball.  

So, the read for me was the outside guy.  If he moved inside, then its a race between the LB and Barkley to the pylon.  That LB also moved inside with the TE, so it became a footrace between the Safety and Barkley to the pylon.   The safety had no shot on a quick toss.

 One the offensive right side, I saw 3, maybe 4 defenders (depending if the standup LB dropped or not) going against 2 receivers.   So, my eyes said the top of the screen was where the mismatch was.  

 

Like I said, it has a lot to do with the pre-snap and knowing who to look at.  If Hurts looks at the two guys outside at the top, when they move inside, he doesn't even need to see Barkley to make the throw... just put it out to the pylon with some air and let Barkley run under it.

 

I don't think you're gonna find too many OCs that would be happy with automatically deviating to a first-read wheel from that alignment when you're 5 yards away from the goal line. Sure in hindsight it would have worked in this case but if the Giants run cover-0 out of this alignment, it's either a throw-away at best anyways or an easy sack. Yes he still could've come off quicker and throw the a back shoulder wheel (ie short of the pylon to avoid risk of a pick 6) when he sees the safety backtrack, which is why I gave him a C+, but I think it's fairly unreasonable to rate it worse than that under the expectation that he'd automatically switch to his primary read to the wheel given what we saw.